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BMW 3-series vs Lexus IS

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  • dave330i

    okay that is quite fair enough.

    i guess what i was trying to say was regardless of what they said the fight is obviously not fair. the IS350 may not have a manual which some people prefer but it has the goods to flat out dominate the 330i. i mean, let's talk about reliability, luxury, interior finish, stereo, rims, price, speed, handling, exterior finish (the 330i is nice but it still looks a lot like the old car obviously and this lexus is a CUT OUT OF THE FUTURE NOT THE PAST.)

    this IS even has knee airbags. it has a much more athletic posture than the 330i. and the rims folks. to each his own but the rims on the bmw 325i just say i am old and i like driving this old persons car. the IS250/350 has rims that say this car is a tailback not the offensive coordinator.

    so go take a look at the IS350 dave and turn in your 225hp 330i that probably has the same sticker as this new lexus with only half the car. you might even like the A/C and stereo system better and not have to pay EXTRA FOR IT. =)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    Yes the 3 series is slightly slower, but on road performance has little to do with HP. 5.3 vs 5.6 are the fastest times I've ever read about for both sedans. According to one of the mags the lowly 3 series beat the G35 on the race track due to it's superior handling.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    " i mean, let's talk about reliability, luxury, interior finish, stereo, rims, price, speed, handling, exterior finish (the 330i is nice but it still looks a lot like the old car obviously and this lexus is a CUT OUT OF THE FUTURE NOT THE PAST.) "

    Actually you make a good case for the 3 series. The upcoming new engine should put to bed any issue with the differential between HP and 0 to 60. interior finish, rims, exterior finish, handling and looks goes to the 3 series. Reliability, and hp go to the 350. Price? Rims? I dunno. You pick what you want best in the car and go for it. If ML is of interest get the "L" on the hood. If handling and road feel is important get the "propeller" on the hood.

    BMW is showing us how far the bar is actually raised.
  • You might want to check your numbers and you assumptions. You're saying quite a few false things.

    Care to elaborate?

    Do you dispute that 6600/7000 * 270 = 255 ?

    The formula uses the torque at 7000rpm to estimate the horsepower output at 6600rpm.

    Do you dispute that torque curve declines between 6600 rpm and 7000 rpm? Therefore torque value at 6600rpm must be equal or, in all probability, higher than torque value at 7000rpm, correct?
  • bdr127,

    so you are trying to say the IS350/250 with sport suspension cannot put on the moves when needed?? i highly doubt we are talking 330i compared to a toyota camry.

    rear seats?? let's not make like the 3-series is a big car. at least at lexus folks who want a big sedan can buy one for under 40K as boring as the ES is. at bmw the badge hounds have not much to choose from for under 40K. they have to buy the LITTLE car. hey a LITTLE TSX for 29K can get me to work darting in and out of traffic just as successfully as a 36K 325i. and i am sure it can't handle a turn as nicely as 3-series but let's not make like cars like the IS and TSX are gonna topple over if i whip that turn really hard.

    FREE MAINTENANCE??? tune-ups. why do new bmw's need tune-ups in the first 4 yrs??? brakes/rotors?? geez if that is needed in the first four years these cars are crappier than i thought they were. at least the warranty should cover a new engine when the original catches on fire and burns up.

    october 2005 CAR AND DRIVER ISSUE. THE BMW 330i's ABS failed during testing so they used the braking number from april. the IS350 still tops the bmw in braking. and by the way for all you ardent 330i lovers. the ACURA TL outperformed the 330i in lane change mph AND SKIDPAD.

    in the handling dept car and driver gave the 330i a 10 and the IS350 a 9. whooooopy!!!!
  • Yeah but it weighs 2800 lbs and is a two seater. Not really in the same class as these other vehicles.

    We are talking about engines, aren't we?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    And the Nissan 300ZX and Acura NSX are in the same class?

    Nooo...I just carried on the conversation I was reading, and added some information about a car that bested the 100 hp/L feat that y'all were talking about, and cost less than $35k.

    We were obviously talking about engines until someone burst someone else's bubble with other cars that did better in the past.
  • Try 5.1, not 5.3 for IS350. 5.1 vs. 5.6 is a huge difference. The official BMW number is 6.1

    As for race track performance, it depends on which race track, doesn't it? The chances of an average owner driving on that specific race track is certainly much less than driving amidst cones, which you dismissed so nonchallently ealier.
  • bdr127bdr127 Posts: 950
    You'll likely pay through the nose up front to get that superior mileage (not a BMW 330i to be found at Tom Williams BMW for under $41k). Also, you mention the cramped IS350, and yes I find it too be too small also, but no worse than the 325i I sat in at the International Auto Show.

    Paying through the nose? Hardly... The prices between the 330i and IS350 are virtually the same. Their base prices are $1k apart, and once you add typical equipment and luxury items, a price advantage between the two is basically negligable.

    Yes, the 330i gets better gas mileage. Yes, the 330i has $0 in maintenance costs for the first 4 years. According to Edmunds, maintenance cost for the IS350 is $1488 for the first 3 years alone. Edmunds speculates another $1200 in the 4th year.

    Whatever your option is regarding rear seat room, the dimension measurements don't lie. The IS350 is just more cramped in every dimension. And not just slightly more cramped, either. We're talking inches difference in each direction. Not only can you read any review by any car mag or online resource, but you can also just look up the dimensions here on Edmunds. (Headroom: 37.1 vs 36.7; Shoulder Room: 55.1 vs 52.7; Leg Room: 34.6 vs 30.6)
  • There is always something upcoming, from both camps. What should worry about the BMW camp is that apparently the I6 is tapped out at 3L in Normally Aspirited form. Introducing turbo and add 15% output gain is not a good sign either. Toyota/Lexus gained 40% in output the last time they used a turbo charger. Plus, Lexus has performance hybrid up its sleeves.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    About 150 posts ago, I questioned who was it that claimed the IS350 has the fastest automatic transmission in the industry. I acknowledged that I haven't driven the car, but from previous experience with the redesigned 2006 GS300, that claim seemed excessively optimistic.

    The response was, essentially, that I have no credibility for even asking the question, since I haven't driven the car. After all, other than 6 gears, the GS and IS transmissions have nothing in common. Oh, and by the way, that unbiased authoritative source was none other than an in-house Lexus Engineer.

    Think that's bad? Now we have one self proclaimed transmission (and everything else) expert that claims that there is essentially no difference between a Sequential Manual Gearbox and the Lexus torque converter automatic.

    No, wait. It's not that there is no difference, it's that the Lexus slushbox is actually better than BMW's SMG.

    No, wait. It's not that the Lexus slushbox is just better than BMW's SMG. Hell no. It's better and faster than Ferrari's F1 transmission.

    How does this expert know this? Why of course, he drove a Ferrari F1, himself. On that lunch break he wasn't test driving the various AMG models (which, of course are also slower than the IS's slushbox). Probably just drove his Toyota Highlander up to the local Ferrari dealership and asked the sales manager to throw him the keys for a quick test drive to the 8,500 rpm redline. :confuse:

    If said expert thinks I'm the only one who finds this pitifully humorous, add "notvery" to the front and remove "ness04" from the back of your tag name. :)
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    "Care to elaborate? "

    Check the links i posted.

    As an aide, did, get it out of your system. Just get a nsx or an is350 and you won't need to post 50 times a day.
  • None of the links you posted dyno'ed the engine using the SAE method. Wheel HP's are not the same thing as engine output.

    Please keep the discussion on topic; you probably don't want me to attack you on how you jumped gun with your last post.
  • A friend of ours just purchased an AWD250. I sat in front and back to check it out. We are looking at a similar vehicle but have children. I have to tell you that as luxurious and impeccable as the IS is, well, it isn't built for anyone of any height. At over 6ft, I was very cramped in the drivers seat and front and rear hip and shoulder room was definitely not available. This car is for my wife only and not me. What a car tho!
    By the way, the dealer brought her new car, picked up her trade and signed papers at her house. Because she leased thru Lexus, she rec'd an iPod Nano. After she had the car a week, there was a recall on the seatbelt. They came to the house to pick up the car and return it after repaired. They also gave her a gift choice, high-end coffee maker or a watch, etc. for the inconvenience of the recall. You don't suppose that is why they score so high in customer satisfaction and I bet she won't report repair issue cuz if she did their initial quality would plummet.
  • Now we have one self proclaimed transmission (and everything else) expert that claims that there is essentially no difference between a Sequential Manual Gearbox and the Lexus torque converter automatic.

    Who said that? I pointed out repeatedly that the implementation details are different. However, SMG is a new form of automatic, as clearly illustrated in the BMW M3 marketting. Lexus is not even involved in this picture; it's torque converter M3's market place being taken up by SMG M3. Stop the strawman tactic.

    No, wait. It's not that the Lexus slushbox is just better than BMW's SMG. Hell no. It's better and faster than Ferrari's F1 transmission.

    BMW's SMG implementation is actually much better than Ferrari's F1 trasmission. Go try both and you will find that out first hand. I don't think I ever made the claim that IS350 automatic is faster than SMG or Ferrari F1; is it actually faster? perhaps, depends on which generation of SMG.

    As for the rest of your post, if you are looking for a habitat for unlimited personal attacks, you are clearly searching in a wrong place. BTW, I may not be an expert, but I certainly have posted more facts and technical details than you have so far, and frankly, you don't want to engage me in [non-permissible content removed]-for-tat personal attacks either.

    BTW, I did not even have to go to the dealership to test-drive a Ferrari with F1 tranny; one of my collegues had a 360 Mondena with it.

    Comes to think of it, I was not even the one who questioned your credibility 150 posts ago . . . what's this load of personal attacks coming from?
  • dhanleydhanley Posts: 1,531
    "Please keep the discussion on topic; you probably don't want me to attack you on how you jumped gun with your last post."

    Heavens, no, i wouldn't want you to attack me!

    I'll try to not go off-topic by introducing cars like the NSX to the topic.
  • When someone claims achieving 255hp in a 3L and 302hp in a 3L turbo is manifestation of incredible engine tuning . . . it is only faire to point out what's been achieved 15 years ago, don't you think? That's why I did not bring up cars like NSX per se, but merely the 3L engines in them.

    BTW, I'm no great fan of HP/L . . . as you said, Yamaha and Honda motorcycles beat them all. I was not the one who held up HP/L in the BMW engines as some kind of achievement.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    for personal confrontations, folks.

    Let's talk about how these two specific cars compare with each other ... we haven't really been there much lately.
  • I think recalls are factored into the reliability data. How a company treats its customers on recalls factors into custom satisfaction data.

    Frankly, it is entirely conceivable that Lexus get more complaints in the next few years as it pursues performance. We shall all wait and see.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Posts: 5,751
    " why do new bmw's need tune-ups in the first 4 yrs??? brakes/rotors??"

    If you need them they are free.

    "october 2005 CAR AND DRIVER ISSUE"

    Apparently you are one of the few that are bothered by the issues with the test vehicle.

    "the ACURA TL outperformed the 330i in lane change mph AND SKIDPAD. "

    But try hitting a curve at 90 in an Acura and mashing the gas. It's the real world driving experience where BMW leaves the competitors in the dust, including the IS350.
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