BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

lipp

from blueguydotcom: This is precisely what I'm doing right now. 1 year left on my lease and I might be able to squeak out 1 more year with my Kumhos. Lease turn-in, I'm visiting the big-o to slap my RFTs back on the car.

Wow! Think of all those "Certified Pre-Owned BMW's" with junk Bridgestone RFT's on them because of guys like you. How will BMW handle that situation? They took more than a year to address it with those of us that bought new cars with crappy RFT's. Feel sorry for the used car buyers. They will get no help.

shipo

That isn't actually very fair now is it? The fact that BlueGuyDotCom leased a 330i SP means that he wouldn't have recieved any help with his tires, no matter what the cirsumstances were.

Best Regards,
Shipo

blueguydotcom

Prospective CPO buyers in 2008 should be more concerned with the fact my car's HVAC doesn't work, the brakes grind, my e-brake won't engage sometimes and my CA works once in awhile. lol

12k miles on the car. It goes in for service Saturday. Fingers crossed that they can fix even half the problems.

kyfdx

If someone buys one of your leased cars, then the tires will be the least of their problems...

blueguydotcom

Strangely, I'm anxious to try a 135. I'll never learn.

lipp

No, it's not very fair but let's bring this into focus. The problem really is how BMW handled (or I should say didn't handle) the RFT issue early on. They showed their true colors of being the least customer oriented company in the auto industry, but with all due respect, Bridgestone also refused to step up to the plate. It took forums like this one to bring the issue to the stage. The current offering by BMW to non-SP owners with Bridgestone RFT's is a start, but you are 100% correct in noting that BlueGuyDotCom's situation with his 330i SP is still an issue.

blueguydotcom

Whoa, not an issue for me. They're in my garage's rafters!

circlew

Nice work. I remember your plan and you are way ahead but I remember thinking " I hope those wheels don't fall from the rafters!". With the RFT issue, this forum is a good indicator to a perspective buyer of an '06 3'er to "Check the Tires or Buyer Beware".

When did the other problems arise?

By the way, when anyone is in the used market, everything needs to be checked. Some models are better than others and some owners use or abuse the vehicle (not talking about you, BGDC).

It takes skill to know when there are problems during the buy process because some used car dealers have very good "cloaking devices". CPO is a better bet, but I am sure there are some horror stories there also.

Regards,
OW

kyfdx

What bums me? No 4-door wagon or hatch... maybe not even a sedan...

shipo

"They showed their true colors of being the least customer oriented company in the auto industry..."

Ummm, well I think that that is a leap of logic and faith that I simply cannot make. Problems like this take a fair amount of work to diagnose, and once diagnosed, there is an enormous infrastructure issue to be dealt with in figuring out the best corrective action. I'm not saying that this issue couldn't have been handled better, however, to state that BMW is now the least customer oriented company in the industry in the face of other atrocities by other companies just ain't right.

Relative to BGDCs tire issues and those of folks with the SP, the Bridgestone Potenza RFTs are lasting about as long as any other high performance summer tire would last under similar conditions. True they are less compliant when road imperfections are encountered and such, they don't adhere as well as a GFT would over the identical surface, nor do they ride as well. Some would say that the trade off for the "piece of mind" that RFT offer is worth it, I wouldn't be one of them however.

Best Regards,
Shipo

lipp

You only know how good a company is when you have a problem with their products or services. The way a company reacts and responds is a true indication of how consumer oriented they are. Many of the close to 900 messages on this forum are a baramator of BMW's position when it comes to addressing consumer issues.

shipo

Dude, I still have to call ya on your rhetoric. The fact of the matter is that BMW is doing something about the problem, and most likely at significant expense I might add.

If the Bridgestone All-Season tire problem is something that you can use as a blanket indictment that states that BMW is the worst customer oriented company in the industry, then what do you say about Ford and their Triton engine/spark plug fiasco?

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/01/ford_truck_engines.html

Best Regards,
Shipo

brightness04

I thought the car has all wear items covered for the first 4yrs and 50k miles . . . shouldn't that cover the tires?

shipo

BMW's maintenance program has always excluded tires. Makes sense too. I mean, would you want to give a weekend racer free tires for 50,000 miles? Nah, me neither.

Best Regards,
Shipo

blueguydotcom

Tires are not covered. Wow, never even heard someone suggest that before. That'd be crazy expensive for BMW. I usually go through a set of 18s in under 14k miles. A 3 year lease would net me at least 3k in tires from the manu then.

nkeen

If the Bridgestone All-Season tire problem is something that you can use as a blanket indictment that states that BMW is the worst customer oriented company in the industry, then what do you say about Ford and their Triton engine/spark plug fiasco?

....or VW with its ignition coils. VW was (is?) plagued with issues that they failed to deal with properly or perhaps just couldn't handle promptly due to their extent -- luckily my dealership did as much as they could to compensate.

shipo

Agreed. ;-)

ukgumby

I own a 2006 330XI with the Bridgestone Turanza EL42s and noticed road noise increasing over time, to a point where on some road surfaces, it feels as if someone is drilling into my skull. That, coupled with the bone jarring ride, took me to the dealer where they said the tires had a cupping pattern which caused the road noise. Nothing they could do (tires had 15K miles).

I was tipped off to the following link:

http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/bulletins/bulletin_graphic_temp/B360606g.htm

Turns out that BMW has admitted the problem and is replacing the tires, unfortunately with Turanza EL42s, but hey... it's better than nothing.

circlew

ukgumby,

I have tha same car and same issue. At 12K, BMW changed to Continental RFT's. Ride is much better so far at 5K on the new tires.

Keep us posted on your perceptions with the new EL-42...they had reportedly changed the rubber compound on this model tire.

You can check the mfg. date on the sidewall. If the date is after June/July 2006, these are the new rubber.

Regards,
OW

rhmass

Lipp, you said "you only know how good a company is when you have a problem with their products or services". I agree totally with your statement. So may be I can share my most recent experience as an indication of BMW's response to their customers.
I brought my 2002 wagon 10 days ago in for brake and routine maintenance (we have the extended service contract) and the technician discovered one of the rear coil springs was broken and replaced both. The car is four years and 10 months old, thus not covered by warranty. Since the car has only 35,500 miles. I wrote a letter to BMW headquarter in New Jersey to simply express my disappointment. In the same letter I also mentioned the tire issue on our 2006 330i (jittery handling and tendance for tramlining).
Within three days I received calls from customer service and the service manager of the dealership offering remedy. For the coil spring, they would reimburse me for the coil springs and gave me an appointment to bring the 06 in Monday to address the tire problem. The service manager said I should be satisfied with the Continental tires.
In my letter I never asked them to "repay" me for the cost or asked for replacement tires. I just want them to know I am very disappointed as a long time customer of many years to feel the quality of BMW might have gone down.

I then got another call yesterday from BMW to inquire if I am satisfied with the situation. I am not sure how many other manufacturers would have responded what BMW has.
So this is my experience to support your statement. My son's 318ti is ready to be replaced this summer and guess which car he is buying then?

circlew

rhmass, DITTO.

Regards,
OW

pmschneidau

I'm about to buy a CPO '06 325i w/ 17,500 miles on it. Thanks to this forum, I insisted current Bridgestone EL42s be replaced prior to purchase. Salesman says they will be replaced w/ "new" EL42s w/ better rubber compounds. Has anyone had their dealership replace the bad EL42s w/ new Bridgestones? It seems everyone who has commented has had Contis put on.
I'd like to insist on the ContiPros, but the BMW Tech Bulletin says the tires will be replaced with Bridgestones when available. Plus, they are not adding anything to the original car price for doing the tires. TireRack says EL42s are out of stock, but that doesn't mean the dealership or tire place they use is out of stock. I will look for a dealership willing to put the Continental tires on if the "new" EL42s are giving people grief. :sick:

circlew

I believe rhmass has the EL42 replacements. I assume new rubber compound.

I did notice at my dealer last month most of the 2007 328's without SP had EL42's.

Regards,
OW

utahjake

The dealer paid for my new tires after 15,000 miles.

rfl

My dealer replaced my EL-42's with Contis(no charge). DEFINITE IMPROVEMENT. Just don't take no for an answer. Face it...Bridgestone is making lousy tires for this car. The EL-42's stink! New compound or not. The fact that BMW is still putting them on cars is a disgrace. I am in the process of ordering a new 328i convertible and the dealer order states "CUSTOMER WILL NOT ACCEPT DELIVERY WITH ANY BRIDGESTONE TIRES". They'll either ship it with Contis (or Michelin or Pirelli) or they can sell the car to some other sucker who doesn't know any better. Once burnt...etc.

brightness04

Thanks for the clarification. I thought "all wear items" included the tires. Well, I guess BMW's are back off my list. No tires, no go! Tires and brakes are the only items I expect to wear out in 24-36 months. That "pay nothing for 4years or 50,000 miles" marketting tag line is rather misleading if tires are not included. Tires are the biggest items in the first few years. I'm registering for class action suit :-)

jtla

Break IS included. Check out below link.

http://www.bmwusa.com/owners/bmwultimateservice/maintenance

shipo

"Well, I guess BMW's are back off my list. No tires, no go!"

Ummm, what with all of your anti-BMW rhetoric over the last several years, I cannot imagine why you would have ever had any BMW on your "list" in the first place. From that perspective, saying that you're taking them off your list is a tad disingenuous don't you think?

Best Regards,
Shipo

brightness04

Ummm, what with all of your anti-BMW rhetoric over the last several years, I cannot imagine why you would have ever had any BMW on your "list" in the first place. From that perspective, saying that you're taking them off your list is a tad disingenuous don't you think?

Price is everything. I was actually considering an X3 a week ago thanks to the extraordinarily high residual. The upcoming 3 series convertible is still in the cards if it has decent residual and is available through European delivery because the wife still thinks April in real Paris is better than the one in Vegas; personally I don't enjoy shabby treatment by Eurotrash snobs (not the car lovers but the obnoxious Parisians who deign to work in the tourist industry) but what can a married man do. BTW, I mentioned in the past on a few occasions that BMW leases make for decent employee incentives due to the extreme low cost.

brightness04

I thought weekend racers need brake replacements more often than tire replacements. A set of brand new brakes lasted only a weekend when I was doing weekend racing and autocrossing a decade ago. As to what is covered and what is not, and still pretend "pay nothing," well, that comes down to the bean counting. Paying $1000+ for a set of replacement tires is certainly not "pay nothing."

brightness04

Thanks for the link. Not including the tires is a real bummer.

circlew

Do you know any auto manufacturer in the US that covers tires??

Regards,
OW

brightness04

Do you know any aother auto manufacturer advertise "Pay nothing for 4 years or 50,000 miles"??? I'm simply asking BMW to live up to their own promise.

actualsize

Tires are never part of any auto manufacturer's warranty. It's always been that way. There are too many driver and road variables out there that affect wear.

Some folks can nurse their Camry along and get 50k miles out of a set, while a leadfoot in the same car might get only 20,000. Same for 3-series, albiet on a lower scale.

Bundled near your owner's manual, you get a seperate pamphlet from the tire company that describes what the tire company's warranty is. It's usually just materials and workmanship, neither of which are at play here.

If you read the details of the "Pay nothing..." deal you'll see the tire exclusion. I think tires are the only part on a car that is seperately warrantied.

circlew

Give me a break! No auto company EVER guarantees tires. Heck, the manufacturers only have limited warranty that is really a joke if you read it. It's good if you leave your car in the garage but little else.

The issue here is that BMW actually used what I would call an unrealized defect and are now getting around to fix it. The problem is, some customers were not treated fairly in the process. We hope they learn from this.

Regards,
OW

jbrock22

Has anyone installed Conti Sportconact2 in sizes 225/45/17 & 255/40/17 RFT ? I found them Tiredepot.com. Less $$ then Bridgestone and Pirelli.

circlew

I had 4 225/45/17 installed by the dealer to replace the Bridgestone EL42's original equipment.

THey are quieter, more supple and wearing quite even. 5K miles so far and lovin' it!

Regards,
OW

jtla

Are you sure? The Conti SportContact2 in those sizes are GFT at TireRack, but I can not find anything at tiredepot.com. Can you provide a link?

idoc2

This very interesting article in the New York Times about RFT's is worth a read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/11/automobiles/11FLATS.html?ref=automobiles

Idoc2

shipo

Yeah, I read that earlier on a different forum. Nothing written was at all surprising, however, I was gratified to see the bit about the class action suit against Honda and Michelin. From my perspective, PAX is just the whole Michelin TRX debacle all over again, a lame attempt at cornering the market for replacement tires for specific vehicles. :P

Best Regards,
Shipo

jbrock22

Sorry

Available @ Treadepot.com

lmsw

I have experienced a nightmare of a problem with BMW run-flats. The originals were the Bridgestones. I own a 2006 325xi with the sports package. After reading some better reviews in regards to the Continental ContiContacts SSR RF's I insisted that BMW replace the Bridgestones with the CCC SSR's. BMW paid for two, and I paid for the other two, plus a wheel ailignment, which totaled to $ 638.00 dollars. I noticed that the noise is not as loud with these tires, HOWEVER, The car continues to tramline and everytime I hit a bump It feel like my bones are cracking. I'm not sure if this is attributed to the suspension as well, but believe me when I say I have not seen a significant differnece witht the continentals.

lmsw

I recently switched over to the Continentals. I own a 2006 325xi w/ sports package. The ride is more quiet, however, when I hit the slightest bump it continues to tramline, and the car tends to shift from side to side. NOT GOOD! The handeling is not as good as my last BMW which was a 2003 330xi. I wish I had never got rid of it! Now I wonder is it soley b/c of the Run Flats or is it also suspension related?

lmsw

Do yourself a favor--BUY A LEXUS!!!!!!!!

highlandpete

Some of the characteristics you mention are NOT tyre brand related, but are simply RFT issues. My garage has experimented on customer’s cars and find there is little difference between brands. Hence why I haven’t changed to another brand.

The tyre pressure is a critical issue, too low and you get the worst tram lining and some of the side to side issues. They commonly work better if set to the higher recommended pressures. Goes against the logic, but does improve the drive in some conditions. The crashing and awful bump steer and invasive vibration into the car are RFT issues, compounded by sport suspension. I couldn’t run the sport suspension in my driving environment, it would be just too harsh.

The suspension is part of the issue, even running non run-flat tyres the suspension is still not ideal and/or consistent, LIKE THE RFTs, IT ALSO stiffens up quite dramatically in cooler weather

I’m on standard suspension and about to fit the Koni FSD damper kit to try and soften my ride without losing the handling.

I’ll then be able to try my 17” Bridgestone Potenza RFTs and the ‘normal’ Goodyear F1’s on the car and see what gives the best results. I’m also keen to try the latest generation Bridgestone Potenza RFT.

BTW, just last week I tried a 330d E92 coupe, standard suspension on 18” 8/8.5” wheel set on Bridgestone Potenza RFTs, and the ride quality has moved on dramatically. I go as far as to say it would be hard to judge if the car was on RFTs. No crashing, no strange steering or handling issues. Car had covered 5,500 miles and temperature about 6 – 8 degrees centigrade. Gave me confidence that BMW are getting it right, but no real help to our cars.

Highland Pete

lmsw

I recently switched to the Conti Procontact SSR, after a horrific 18,000 miles with the Bridgestones. I have a 2006 325xi with sports package, and have owned 3 other BMW's. This experience has altered my image of BMW. I really felt that at one time I was truly driving the ultimate driving machine, NOT ANYMORE! After 1,000 miles witht he Conti's the car tramelines, and the handeling is poor! The only difference is they are more quiet. Get rid of the RFT all together, wish I did.

nkeen

I just had my first real chance to evaluate the RFT LM-22s on my 2006 325i with ZSP. The tires are mounted on 16" rims. Our office parking lot turns out into a one-way street, a steep climb which was covered in sleet and freezing rain this afternoon. Car after car experienced difficulty, and three had to give up trying and reverse to the bottom of the hill (Jag XJ-6, Hyundai Sonata and an Acura TL). A std 325i with all seasons (presumably EL42s) and a Mercedes C-series also barely made the climb. I was feeling some trepidation as I left the underground lot, but I switched DTC on and proceeded. My car charged up the hill almost as though it had 4WD. Also, the car felt very sure-footed on I-495 in Delaware, where several cars had spun out onto the median. I had doubts about RWD after many years of driving FWD only, but these tires give me confidence that the car can get the job done as well as, if not better than, most.

My experience doesn't really jibe with the TireRack comparison which showed the LM-22 only offering marginal improvement over all-seasons.

jbrock22

I agree the LM-22 RFT in deep freezing rain are very sure footed.
Great tire!!!

shipo

"I was feeling some trepidation as I left the underground lot, but I switched DTC on and proceeded."

You switched it on??? Ummm, if you pushed the button so that the light came on, that means that you switched it off.

Best Regards,
Shipo

nkeen

I thought that the default was DSC (dynamic stability control), pushing the button briefly switched on DTC (dynamic traction control) mode, and a three second + push switched everything except ABS off.