Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

11819212324102

Comments

  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    From the above referenced TireRack web page:

    It's also important to check your owner's manual for specific details on what method of tire rotation the vehicle's manufacturer recommends.

    I have a the owners manual for every car that I've owned since my 1966 Plymouth Valiant 200 with the venerable 225 Slant Six engine. The only two manuals that I have that recommend "crossing" are the ones from cars that came from the factory with Bias Ply tires. Starting with the 1975 Pontiac LeMans, a front to back with no cross was recommended for the left side and a front to trunk to back rotation was recommended for the right side.

    Every other car that I've had with Radial Ply tires, regardless of whether it was FWD, AWD or RWD has recommended a front to back rotation with no cross, except my two BMW which don't recommend a rotation at all.

    Once again, the above is rather moot in this day and age when many tires are directional (geez, even my winter tires are directional) and crossing them would cause them to roll backwards.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • lipplipp Posts: 58
    Shipo:
    I understand what you are saying regarding directional tires and different front and rear sizes. I am only trying to find an answer to rotating same size, non directional RFT Conti's. Crossover front to rear or not? Opinions differ, and since BMW recommends NOT rotating the tires at all, the plot thickens. At this point I am inclined to take your advice and go front to rear with no crossover, but there are many respondents to this board who disagree. Tirerack also disagrees as does Bridgestone.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    In the end, the larger issue is the front to rear movement, the left to right is fairly incidental. I seriously doubt "crossing" the tires will amount to a change in tire wear that is even measurable.

    As for what rotation is appropriate for a BMW, all of the folks that I know who opt to rotate their BMW tires, rotates front to back with no cross, and they get excellent service from their tires as I have from mine.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,398
    I loved the slant-6, great engine. My brother had one. My second car was a '68 Doge Dart GT with a 318 cube/ 225 HP. 17.06 in the 1/4 mile.

    I also have never crossed tires during rotation since radials began as you have said.

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Hehe, I had a 318 3-Speed manual in my 1970 Challenger, errr, at least when I bought the car I did. I found a destroyed (rear-ended) AAR 'Cuda with a 340 Six-Pack in it and bought that engine along with a New-Process 4-Speed from a 440 Super-Bee (I had to machine the bell-housing from the 318 to fit the big block tranny), and put them in the Challenger. That was in April of 1978.

    By mid May of 1978 (less than 4 weeks later) I'd managed to get four speeding tickets. Since I still had the 318, I found a buyer for the 340 (I had folks lining up to buy the damn thing) and mounted the 318 in front of the 4-Speed. That combination worked very well right up to the point where the car was stolen and stripped in 1983. :cry:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,398
    Ship,

    You are my hero...did you ever see Vanishing Point? That was a 340 SC in the movie with Barry Newman. The movie was a cult flick and my brother and I loved it because the real star of the movie was the '70 Challenger which, IMO, was the best car of the Muscle Car decade!

    You are truly the King!

    Regards,
    OW
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "...did you ever see Vanishing Point?"

    Oh..., only twenty or thirty times. :blush: I'm thinking that the only movie that I've seen more times is Rocky Horror Picture Show. :blush: ^2

    "...the '70 Challenger which, IMO, was the best car of the Muscle Car decade!"

    Yeah, I have to agree with that too. In fact, I'm trying to figure out where I will garage a new 2009 Hemi Challenger. :shades:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • capriracercapriracer Somewhere in the USPosts: 800
    "....

    "...the current recommendation for rotation includes "crossing"."

    By whom? Under what circumstances? Please provide references or links.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo

    ...."

    http://www.tiresafety.com/maintenance.asp

    http://www.goodyeartires.com/faqs/Rotation.html
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Okay, I stand corrected. Some authoritative entities do in fact recommend "crossing".

    Next question, who should be believed, the vehicle manufacturer that recommends front to rear, no cross, or the tire manufacturer (Goodyear and Bridgestone in this case) that recommends a cross of non-directional tires?

    It seems that since the dawn of radial tires, the pendulum has swung from a no-cross rotation to what is now a cross rotation for non-directional tires. I find myself wondering if said pendulum is going to swing back again as more and more, tires are being made that are directional. Look at it this way; my last BMW had directional tires from the factory, the winter tires that I bought for it were directional as well. The All-Season tires on both of our minivans are directional, the All-Season tires on my both my Mom's Toyota Corolla are directional as are both the summer tires and winter tires of Mrs. Shipo's Mom's Toyota Corolla (different year, same color). Said another way, of the last five cars and seven sets of tires that I've had to rotate, every one has directional tires. Is this a coincidence or a trend?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,398
    I have always rotated front to back on each as Shipo recommends. Here is the Tire Rack recommendation.

    Four (4) Tire Rotation

    * On front wheel drive cars, rotate the tires in a forward cross pattern (fig. A) or the alternative X pattern (fig. B)
    * On rear wheel or four wheel drive vehicles, rotate the tires in a rearward cross pattern (fig. C) or the alternative X pattern (fig. B)
    * If your car has directional wheels or tires, rotate them as shown in fig D.
    * If your car has non-directional tires that are a different size from front to rear, rotate them as shown in fig. E.

    image
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,398
    I'll give you one guess what fig. D shows.

    I can't get it into the post but it's as Shipo recommends, front to back on each side.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,398
    "Oh..., only twenty or thirty times."

    OK, now let's see if you were paying attention. Just after the beloved star hits the dozer, there are a couple of frames that show the wreck. If you have a digital copy and run the frame-by-frame, the car that is crushed and in flames is NOT the star but a '67-'69' Camaro!! You can tell by the rear fender, which is partially blackened but there it is.

    Regards,
    OW
  • OK lets make sure I understand what you guys are saying. You are getting cupping and lots of noise when you don't rotate and you want to keep doing this so you can complain some more. And also that you want to ingnore the mmanufacturers who have a lot of good engineers who know more than you do about tires and tire wear who say to rotate. I am no expert and tend to follow expert advice. My previous car was a 1999 330i and I rotated my tires every 10,000 miles and I got over 60,000 miles on the OEM Micheline tires. I guess I could have done better if I had done it every 5,000 but I will never know. Of course that was with a set of 5 tires. I have laways rotated my tires and am still VERY VERY puzzled by BMW recommendation that tires njot be rotated. Guess it is to save money by not having to do them in their maintenance shops. :confuse:
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I don't think I can actually give myself credit for catching that little point, but yes, I did pick up on it somewhere along the line. It's actually a little sad as my favorite Camaro ever built was the 67-69 version.

    Even though a Challenger didn't drill itself into a dozer as depicted in the movie, IIRC, some five Challengers were destroyed during the filming of the movie. :cry:

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    "My previous car was a 1999 330i and I rotated my tires every 10,000 miles and I got over 60,000 miles on the OEM Micheline tires."

    I'll bet you a million dollars you didn't have a "1999 330i". So, what were you really driving back then?

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • I have a 2006 BMW 325i with Bridgestone RFT. After 9,000 miles, they became the loudest tires that I have ever heard. At first it sounded like the engine was right next to me! I love my BMW, and I take very good care of it, all service is done by the dealer. The problem I have (according to the dealer) is that the tires wear out faster from the inside. The dealer says that it is a known problem that will go away after I put more mileage on the tires. Guess what? He's wrong... My tires now have about 20,000 miles on them, but I still get the same noise. I have been to the dealer many times and they refuse to replace the tires because they still have a lot of tread left. I should have about 10,000 miles left on these tires.

    I hope I am not the only one with this problem, it's total bs. :mad:
  • lipplipp Posts: 58
    Take some time and go through the numerous posts regarding the RFT problem. Your story is repeated over and over again. BMW refuses to address the problem. Work through your dealer and through BMWNA until you get the problem resolved to your satisfaction. I did, and I am pleased with the agreement I made to resolve my RFT problem, but it was like pulling teeth. Because of their attitude and the aggravation they put me through, I will never buy a BMW again. It's a very overrated car and BMW is the least consumer oriented company in the auto industry.

    Good luck with your problem. If you really want to resolve it you have to be persistent.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,398
    berto1,

    I sent a one-line e-mail to my dealer and they changed my tires with 12,500 k on the tires. I believe they probably had a mileage limit and I just sqeeked by but they mentioned others had complained. My SR said the Bridgestone changed the rubber compound on the EL42's last July. That is why they are still on the new '07 3 series.

    I have the Conti SSR's now and plan to rotate every 5K miles to make sure wear is even.

    I had the same front inside wear as you have stated.

    Regards,
    OW
  • I appreciate the responses and I apologize for beating on a dead horse. I will definitely stay away from the RFT's. It did strike me as odd that the dealer did not want me to rotate my tires. I will, however, do as you, OW, and get a new set of tires.

    Thanks
  • actualsizeactualsize Santa Ana, CaliforniaPosts: 264
    Our long term 330i, which has 18" Bridgestone (B/S) RE050a RFTs, is at the end of its year with us. Except for one tire that was replaced early-on due to damage, the tires are original. Here is a peek at the results:

    One of the things we measured was road noise while cruising at 70mph. We did it when the car first came to us, and repeated the test after our one year and 25k miles came to an end.

    New: 65.2 decibels
    25k miles: 65.3 decibels

    No change in noise, reasonable measured levels, and no unusual wear. Based on these results and what many of you have reported, the unusual wear/noise seems confined to the 17" all-season B/S EL42 tire.

    Other tire-related results, measured by the same driver at the same test location:

    Braking, new, from 60 mph: 112 feet
    25k miles: 116 feet

    Lateral grip, skidpad, new: 0.88g
    25k miles: 0.89g

    Slalom speed, new: 68.6 mph
    25k miles: 69.1 mph

    Say what you will about BMW RFTs, but our 18" B/S RE050a summer RFTs generated some impressive numbers. The differences are within what we would consider normal variation for tests conducted on different days.

    But if we assume absolute repeatability, a dubious proposition, the directional trends of the admittedly small differences make some sense:

    Slightly longer stopping distances are to be expected with our thinner brake pads and experienced rotors.

    Higher skidpad and slalom times jive with worn tires having shorter tread blocks and less tread squirm.

    Twitter: @Edmunds_Test

  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,398
    Actual,

    Thanks for the info. RE050a's seem to be a real good tire. Can I ask if you rotated the tires during your test and if you had any issue with pressure loss?

    I do not think this model is available in all-season variety. Can you advise is you tested any vehicles with Continental SSR RFT's?

    Regards,
    OW
  • actualsizeactualsize Santa Ana, CaliforniaPosts: 264
    Actual,
    Can I ask if you rotated the tires during your test and if you had any issue with pressure loss?


    The front and rear tires are different sizes, so only side to side rotation is possible. We took it in for service two or three times, but did not specifically request rotation, and it is not noted on either of the service tickets.

    As for pressure loss, we had no trouble. But drivers are encouraged to check pressures around here, and they generally do. I have a real compressor at home, and use it when needed. But no, nothing chronic with our 330i.

    I do not think this model is available in all-season variety. Can you advise is you tested any vehicles with Continental SSR RFT's?

    Right, the RE050a 18" RFT tires are summer-only. I have no Conti RFT experience, 3-series or otherwise.

    AS

    Twitter: @Edmunds_Test

  • My BMW 325 has the Bridgestone Run Flats and the NOISE started at about 10K miles. Initial handling was O.K., but much short of my previous two 3-Series BMW's. Now have 31K miles after 14 months and the NOISE is unbearable, especially between 40 and 48 mph on good roads. My passengers complain that they cannot hear on their cell phones! Dealer tells me it is time to replace the tires.
    BMW Customer Satisfaction claims to have not received my first letter when I called them. They provided no satisfaction and when I suggested I replace these tires with conventional high speed Michelins, they advised against it as the suspension is tuned to run flats??!! Is that true? If that suspension is tuned, it is dissonant beyond belief! What are the alternatives? I am not worried about a flat. Will carry a can of Run Flat.
  • cbanctcbanct Posts: 17
    Thank you Edmunds.

    The use of data to review concerns is why I love this website so much. The B/S 18" RE050a summer RFTs proved to be a very good tire.

    If I do get the 335i though, I will still seriously consider replacing these tires when they wear out with Michelin Pilot Sport PS/2 tires.

    cbanct
  • owner6owner6 Posts: 89
    Whats the current mileage?
    Are they Quite?
    How do they ride compared to the harshness of the Bridgestone EL42?
    Are they Run Flat?
    Whats the Conti Tire model number/name?
    Owner6
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,398
    6,
    current milege on the Conti procontact ssr rft's is about 700 miles now. Ride is noticably less intrusive than the el42's. handling performance excellent. contiprocontact ssr rft. 225/45/17 all 4 corners. (car has 13,500 miles now -'06 330xi)

    Very Happy, so far....I will rotate front to back on each side at 5,000 mile increments.
  • lipplipp Posts: 58
    UPDATE:
    I replaced my Bridgestone EL42's with Conti Pro Contact SSR Run Flats 9,000 miles ago. I am driving an '06 325i with 205/55R16's on all corners. They are just starting to exhibit a bit of noise but nothing like the EL42's. Dealer rotated them yesterday, front to rear, rear to front with no crossover. Noise level was the same after the rotation, as before. Again, I want to emphasis - a bit of noise. Nothing like the EL42's. The tires are wearing very well and very even. They still look new. They ride much better than the EL42's. Smoother and quieter with no sacrifice in handling. My only concern is "will the noise level increase?" Time will tell and I will keep all posted.
  • webby1webby1 Posts: 209
    Shipo,
    Any experience with Nitrogen...it appears ( at least in Canada ) that most are going to Nitrogen. My BMW dealer switched to Nitrogen this week and my Honda dealer 2 months ago.
    I switched to Nitrogen on my wife's Accord today....will drive a few days and see if any difference in ride.
    Everything written so far appears to be all positive.
    Please comment.
    Thanks and Regards,
    Webby
  • Nitrogen just stays in the tire longer and is less susceptible to temperature change. That's all. Nothing special about it.
Sign In or Register to comment.