BMW 3-Series Run Flat Tires

shipo

Do you know for a fact that your 325i has sensors for the TPMS system? I ask because as I understand it, some (all?) of the earlier BMW TPMS systems use the ABS system to read rolling differentials and figure out when a tire is low based upon that. If you have that kind of a system then any wheel will do, however, if you do in fact have sensors, then you'll need to buy a new wheel that will accept the BMW sensors (and have them changed over to the new wheels as well).

Best Regards,
Shipo

dglassm

The post was comparing 328xi(230) to G35x(306) , certainly the 335xi is faster than the G35x.

shipo

"The post was comparing 328xi(230) to G35x(306) , certainly the 335xi is faster than the G35x."

Hmmm, I'm pretty sure you wrote:
"I was set on getting 335xi or 330xi..." and that you said nothing about considering a 328xi. Did I miss something?

Best Regards,
Shipo

boomer23

I recently ordered a 2008 328i coupe with sport package for a 3 year, 30K mile lease. Delivery should be late January. I'm thinking about my tire strategy for this 3 year lease.

I'm in Southern Cal. I tend to drive reasonably sanely, but I do enjoy feeling the excellent handling of the car. That is why I am getting a 3 Series. I'll put on mostly freeway and highway miles, with some canyon carving thrown in for fun. Are the "new crop" of RE050 RFTs on the zsp cars lasting anywhere near 30K miles in this kind of driving?

If not, I am wondering if, for this short term and reasonably short number of miles, it is worth dealing with the hassle of removing the RFTs after 8K to 10K miles, installing GFTs, storing the RFTs for lease return, and rigging some kind of spare, compressor, etc. I'd probably only have one set of GFTs that might not be worn out when lease return time comes. Maybe in this specific situation, it might make more sense to just replace the RFTs with another set when they wear out, assuming I can find a set (my tire dealer has them back ordered for months already).

Any thoughts? Thanks.

shipo

Your chances of making it 30,000 miles on a set of summer tires and still having 5mm of tread depth left (the minimum before BMW will ding you for new tires at turn-in time) are somewhere between slim and none. In fact, I'll go out on a limb here and say it ain't gonna happen.

So, that means that you're going to have to buy a set of tires somewhere along the line. Your two options are to wear the first set out and have a second set of RFTs mounted, or to buy a set of GFTs at about the 10,000 mile mark, store the RFTs, and then have them remounted just before you return the car.

The benefit for buying a second set of RFTs when the time comes is that you don't have to mess with storing the tires and don't have to pay for two sets of tires to be mounted. The benefit for buying a set of GFTs is that you'll likely find that they ride and handle better, you'll save as much as $500 on the tires themselves, which will easily cover the cost of having the factory tires remounted before turning the car back in.

Best Regards,
Shipo

boomer23

Yah, I just spent an hour on the Bimmerfest tire forum and came to the same conclusion. The RFTs will last maybe 15K miles, AND during that time, I'll have noise and handling issues and run the risk of them suffering a sidewall defect from hitting a road hazard. BMW dealers are likely the only place to get a replacement tire, and they're overpriced. Better to remove them at about 5K to 8K miles, put on some GFTs and enjoy the better ride and handling and availablity of replacement tires at a much better price.

Thanks for your thoughts, Shipo. Somehow I knew that you'd answer back quickly.

Regards and thanks for your years of good advice. Boomer.

jmcbmw

It seems that Michellin has a RFT version of it's highly rated Pilot Sport 2. Has anyone tried them yet? Are they better than the stock Bridgestones? I saw them on Tirerack.com. I have a Yellow Tire warning light on my 08 335i with less than 500 miles on it when 2 days old. It happened the night before leaving for a business trip so it's sitting in my garage until tomorrow when will have to carefully drive it to my BMW center. I saw no visible damage or intrusion so don't know what's going on. Could it be simply low inflation?

apike

Hi all,

I was looking at tire rack and found the ContiProContact Run Flats in the following size 225/45HR17 I believe these fit the specs of the 328i with the sports package and should fit the OE rims. Is this correct? Any experience?

Thanks

shipo

Kinda-sorta-maybe. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the 328i SP come with a staggered tire setup (i.e. wider rear wheels and tires than front)? I'm thinking that you want 225/45 R17s on the front end and 255/40 R17s on the rear. Yes, no?

Best Regards,
Shipo

volkov

I have spent about a week and a half of what little spare time I have slowly working my way through the entire thread.
Specific questions.
First, I will be getting the Contis as they are on the 08 328 xi Touring. Seems this should be fine for the local driving this car will see, and a improvement over the EL 42 that are on the 07. Yes?
Seems conflicting reports from earliet versus later. Is the ride with Sport package better or worse using the RFT's? Did this change as the tires were altered?
I will need real winter tires. I can get factory rims and Blizzak RFTs on special promo. (Still ridiculously expensive) I think but can't confirm that the 08 uses the internal sensor so I can't just use any rim. Correct?
Big question here is how compliant the Blizzaks are. Our local residential streets are rutted and ice covered 5 months of the year. Think gravel road to the cottage for comparable bumpy ride. If the winter RFT's are still very stiff I will run 16's with regular winters. This is a new car principally for my wife and she won't be happy with her teeth rattling. She is quite happy driving my 04 WRX in the same conditions if that helps for reference.
Any replies or ad-hoc comments appreciated.

jbrock22

I have the Brigestone LM22 winter RFT, 205/55/16. They ride well not as smooth as my Contisportcontact 225/45/17. But they are very good in freezing, slush, snow and the rain. They also handle pretty good for a winter tire. I would purchase again.

nkeen

I have LM-22s on 25/55/16 also -- not as smooth as my summer RE050s but they absorb pavement cracks and holes better. Very effective winter tires. A TireRack test I saw shows them to be little beyond all seasons in ice traction, but that has not been my experience -- I've seen base 325i's with EL42s and Acura TLs struggle with a hill outside my office which my car just steamed right up. Very good also in freezing rain. I lose the great ultimate grip and the alive, almost over-precise feel of the RE050s for the winter, though. The summer tires take a lot of active management on the road -- these require less. The RE050s are quite hard core for a sedan, which I think puts a lot of people off. The Blizzaks make RWD a practical snow belt proposition -- but the switchover is all in the timing!

suttree

I have a 328xi Coupe (no sport package) on the way, and I have been following the many issues raised about the OE Bridgestones (which in my case will be 17" A/S, unless I luck out and get another brand),

Clearly there are issues around tire life, noise, reliability.

My question is: how do these tires perform in terms of over all handling--cornering, straight ahead tracking, etc? Sorry if I missed one of the many good emails that addressed this.

Thanks much.

robispe

I have sent letters to BMW Canada, complaining about the run flat tires on my Z4, they have refused to do anything for me because they say the problem is only with the tires on the 2006 and 2007 3 series. I have written to BMW U.S.A and BMW Germany, they have made it clear that they will not do anything to remedy this problem. I am issuing a Statement of Claim in small claims court. Does anyone else have a Z4 with problem tires, I need some back up for my court appearance. With regard to after market tires, I have just purchased Michelin low profile all weather tires to replace the run flat,and they work much better. So far there are no warning lights, and I highly recommend the change

crwbaird

Hey,
I have heard that some others have had this same problem. One link that came up for me was http://www.bmwtirenoise.com
Apparently this is a large problem and it occurs at the 10,000 mile mark
Hopefully you can garner some information from that site as well.

crwbaird

Hey Guys
I have heard that some others have had this same problem with the BMW tires making weird noises, often after 10,000 km.
One link that came up for me was when I was researching it was www.bmwtirenoise.com
Hopefully you can garner some information from that site as well.

sky11

does the



Is the ZHP,when equipped with the Michelin Pilot Sport,the only 3 series not equipped with run flats ?

bobsap

I was within moments of getting the 2008 335xi coupe until i questioned the dealer with the ability to get the run flats serviced. Not much of an answer, so I went to my local Goodyear dealer, and they told me they do not stock nor service these tires...Having read briefly thru this forum, no one seems happy with the run flats and potential problems that may arise...So the question is, do I walk away from the car??? I really like the way it drives, and having had a 740, 2-540's & my current 545, the all wheel drive coupe seemed the solution to keeping with BMW...But, what I hear from all of you, maybe not???

tborchman

my husband and i would not recommend the RFT's. we have had to replace two tires and rims and pay to fix a third rim. we are not happy.

rfl

Just took delivery of a new 335xi(sedan)- my sixth BMW. I had a 2006 330xi and HATED the tires...but got good mileage on them and fortunately NO DAMAGE in 25000 miles...so I said, what the heck...let's do it again. The new car is LIGHT YEARS smoother ride than previously. With the Continental Conti ProContact SSR tires(RFTs) it's almost as smooth a ride as with GF's. INSIST on the Conti tires...DO NOT ACCEPT DELIVERY with Bridgestone's. If the dealer tells u he cannot accomodate such an order GO TO ANOTHER DEALER. They will switch tires to accomodate you and the difference between the two brands is MAJOR. I also opted to give up substantial trunk space and ordered a full size RFT spare and matching wheel. I got the fold down rear seat so if I need extra trunk space when travelleing I can use the back seating area. For local use- marketing, etc. there's still plenty of room in the trunk. Face it...RFT's are going to be all of our future. BMW did a lousy PR job on the intro to them but they replaced my original Bridgestone's with Contis on my 2006 and for that I owed them a repeat performance. Now they seem to have tuned the suspension and the car is EVERYTHING I COULKD HAVE ASKED FOR. Stay tuned for the wear report...at least with the spare I don't have to worry about getting stranded anymore.

shipo

"Face it...RFT's are going to be all of our future."

Nope, not buying. Unless there is a complete ground-up reengeneering of the product and unless the new version of the truth is rim compatible with GFT technology (i.e. NOT the lame Michelin PAX system), I seriously doubt that RFTs are a foregone conclusion.

Best Regards,
Shipo

larry175

get the car and have the dealer knock $600. off the price and buy a set of regular tires. The rims present no problems with reg. tires. I put on over 12000 miles with rf rims and reg tires

bobsap

THANKS TO ALL OF YOU FOR THE INPUT! I REALLY DO LOVE THIS CAR, AND HAVE WORKED UP A SWEET DEAL FOR A LEASE &/OR BUY...I WILL CALL THE DEALER AND INSIST ON THE CONTI'S...WHAT WAS THE COST OF THE SPARE WHEEL, WITH THE RFC MOUNT...ASSUME YOU HAVE A JACK ALSO, OR WILL YOU RELY ON ROADSIDE ASSIST OR GAS STATION HELP? ALSO, IF ONE OPTS TO DEMOUNT THE RFT'S, IS THERE AN EXACT FIT FOR THE GFT'S...I STOPPED INTO A LARGER GOODYEAR DEALER AND THEY TOLD ME THEY DO NOT EVEN HAVE THE EQUIPTMENT TO DEMOUNT RFT'S???

rfl

The tire is about $150+/- including shipping from Tire Rack...the dealer should sell you a Style #159 wheel for about $280. Mounting should cost $40... you'll have change from $500. By the way... there is a chrome "D" hook in each corner of the trunk...you can stretch a bungy cord around the tire/wheel from hook to hook for a great, stable mount. Yes..I carry a jack (from an old BMW) in the well. I do not subscribe to the school of replacing the tires with GFT's....if you buy the BMW stick with the tires that the manufacturer- designed the tires/wheels. Anything else is looking for trouble. Any competant tire shop SHOULD be able to mount/demount RFT's. They need the special equipment for it. If they don't have it...find another shop. Just remember to INSIST on the Contis...don't let the dealer talk u into the Bridgestone's. UNDER ANY CONDITION. Unless he wants to give you enough of an additional discount to scrap the new Bridgestones and buy yourself a set of Contis.

tiff_c

Yes..I carry a jack (from an old BMW) in the well. I do not subscribe to the school of replacing the tires with GFT's....if you buy the BMW stick with the tires that the manufacturer- designed the tires/wheels. Anything else is looking for trouble. Any competant tire shop SHOULD be able to mount/demount RFT's. They need the special equipment for it. If they don't have it...find another shop.

This is good advice provided you live near a place that can do the actual work and that you don't work or travel far from a place that can actually change a RFT.
The RFT's were a total deal killer for me. I would have bought BMW but not a chance on RFT's and to make it worse they eliminated the storage in the car for the tire. A bungee cord in my trunk is old school. If I was going to use bungee cords I'd have no issues with GFT's. most are designed far better than GFT's which all the problems surrounding them should tell people they are not ready for prime time.

bobsap

I AM STILL ON THE FENCE, AND STILL "IN LOVE" WITH THE CAR...I MAY CHECK OUT THE NEW AUDI S5, AS A RIVAL...BUT FOR NOW, I AM PUTTING THE DEAL ON HOLD...HAVE YOU HAD ANY PROBLEMS WITH THE CONTI'S YET???

shipo

Dude, please, give us all a break and lose the CAPS! It's considered yelling and rude, not to mention the fact that it is VERY DIFFICULT TO READ.

circlew

16K on the RFT Contis. Perfect...'06 330xi.

Regards,
OW

bobsap

Sorry about the caps!!! I am waiting to drive the g-37, albeit not all wheel drive, and the audi s-5...given that this will be my 5th bmw, its likely i will do the 335xi, but will buy a mounted spare & jack, for peace of mind!!!

circlew

It's been 29K with RFT's now. Nothing scares me anymore. I am a survivor!!

No spare...no dipstick...no oil changes for 15K...no temp gauges....just bluetooth link, premium fuel and a flashlight!

No pain, no gain. This is life at the bleeding edge!

Regards,
OW

cdnpinhead

thing. If you live out here in the wild, wild west, it's not uncommon to have to drive hundreds of miles with only rudimentary (if any) services available. Ignoring California, there are probably fewer than a dozen cities that even stock run-flat tires, and my luck generally involves needing tire service on a weekend and/or in the middle of the night.

I've driven many miles out here involving Nevada, Eastern CA & OR and a number of other places where finding tire repair of ANY KIND WHATSOEVER is marginal in the daylight and impossible otherwise. I prefer non-Interstate roads because I love to drive (as opposed to travel), so I end up in places those of you east of the Mississippi probably only read (& have nightmares) about.

I need four full-size real tires at all times when I'm doing a road trip. Doing road trips is the only possible excuse I've got for owning a car that actually performs, so compromising there defeats the whole purpose. I've carried a spare for many, many miles over the past 35 years and have needed it much less frequently over that past decade or so. That said, I had a flat on one of my favorite NW Nevada backroads a few years ago & stuck on my (full-size) spare with no further thought. I was home in AZ late the next day & got the tire fixed the following week, amongst going to work & back every day. It was a total non-event.

With RFT, that trip would have been a royal nightmare, and expensive to boot. This whole RFT debacle, along with the dipstick thing, has moved me from a "I'm getting a BMW next time" person to, "well what are the alternatives?" I can't get just what I want, so if I have to compromise, why not go for an appliance?

Especially if the appliance has real tires, a dipstick, and no history of overheating its oil.

brislance1

I hope someone from BMW of North America monitors this board and gets the picture that many of us are holding back from the purchase of a new BMW because of the RFT problems. I am retired and in my seventies and drive across the country from the upper midwest through Texas to Arizona. I make the return trip in May. I would have to be crazy to drive through tlhis area without a spare. I can't imagine getting tire service for a run flat anywhere west of Midland, Texas. A breakdown in this part of the country would find my wife and me aboard a tow truck being flatbedded to El Paso.

It seems ridiculous that when you purchase a car for over forty thousand dollars you still have to go out and buy a spare and jack just to be secure on a long cross country trip. Sorry BMW, but until you at give us the option of go-flat-tires or at least the choice of paying extra for them and a spare tire, I will not purchase another BMW. I'm sure there are thousands of other old guys and gals and probably many young ones who feel the same way.

By the way, put in a dip stick!

circlew

I agree with you all on the valid concerns. Let us wild ones work through the technology before it's perfected. Buy an Infinity or Lexus while we work out the downside risks. We live for knife-edged adventure while development is fed back to the accountants who are in charge of the engineers and work in the cheaper alternatives (garnered from the horrors we face) into the new design year to year.

We are working on steel tires and no-entry engine bays for no-maintenance care-free ease of ownership. This includes a 200K miles end to end warranty with absolutely no maintenance necessary during your ownership term.

Regards,
OW

wilkens11

No spare...no dipstick...no oil changes for 15K...no temp gauges....just bluetooth link, premium fuel and a flashlight!

Dude. Dude. You are out of control! Someone think of the children!

P.S. Also "lifetime" lubricants in the transmission and differential

wilkens11

Does anyone have experience to share on the 16" wheels with runflat tires (325i and 328i)? Most the posts here seem to relate to all-season 17s and summer 17s on the sport packages, but I haven't read everything.

wilkens11

Also, has anyone here changed from runflats to go-flats?

I have a 328i with SP, and the tires tramline, have bump steer, and have other poor steering characteristics. Since on the test drive I preferred the non-SP steering, I may install 16x7 wheels or the 17x7 wheels from the 1-series. But I'm planning to change to go-flats at the earliest reasonable opportunity.

nkeen

I'm on the knife-edge too, but I liked Citroen DS21s in the 1960s as a kid. RFTs are the future -- the local interstates with narrow shoulders bounded by concrete walls are not safe locations for a wheel change. I buy BMW's argument that the cars were engineered for the tires. What further convinces me is to read a post that advocates the shift to GFTs followed by another by the same owner complaining about the soft handling of the E90 so equipped. On my car I've found ride "crashiness" to be a factor of 16 v 17 inch wheels -- summer 17"s don't like sudden jolts but the RE050s are good, agile, performance tires; winter tires on 16"s are vaguer, more forgiving. As for the dipstick: good riddance!

circlew

It's nice to get another perspective. I have no problem with the Conti RFT's from this side of the pond.

Regards,
OW

rhmass

I am totally with you on the issue of RFT. It is so ironic these tires supposed to give us ease of mind actually creates so much concerns when taking long trips. Between our '06 and '02 3 series, we are taking the older car whenever we go for long trip precisely because we don't want to be stranded in some remote place. This has totally defeated the alleged BMW design purpose. When I am reading those posts indicating remedies such as buying an extra RFT or replacing the original tires with the GFT and still with either a spare or a fix-a flat can in the trunk, I have to question why we as consumers to have to come up with a less than ideal solution for this design flaw in the first place. We have been owning BMWs since 20 years ago and this is the first time we will probably not consider a BMW when we choose our next replacement. Hopefully BMW can come to its senses and makes the RFT an option item then!

bobsap

i have reached my decsion, that i will take the 2-month complementary lease extension on my 2005 545 while i test drive sensible choices...i agree with most, the only way BMW will get the message is when long term buyers "strike"...anyone try the g-37 coupe, albeit rear wheel drive???

cdnpinhead

that the distances we deal with routinely in the western U.S. are totally unknown in densely populated areas like western Europe. Australia has even more empty roads than we do, but fewer people using them. Other than that, you're looking at Asia to find 120-150 miles of empty road with absolutely no services. And, as I mentioned earlier, it takes more than just basic services to deal with RFT "issues." Repair or replacement can only be accommodated at relatively few locations, at least if you want to get it done in an hour & on with your journey.

What percentage of 3's are sold in North America vs. Europe? I'm thinking the relatively urban-centric (I just made it up) mindset of the Germans may be at the root of a lot of this.

bruceomega

Just took delivery of a new 335xi(sedan)- ..... I had a 2006 330xi and HATED the tires ..... new car is LIGHT YEARS smoother ride than previously ..... Now they seem to have tuned the suspension and the car is EVERYTHING I COULKD HAVE ASKED FOR .....

Very interesting, I would not have guessed this.

I had an '06 330Xi, and even after replacing the OEM Bridgestones with the Continentals, the car was still too harsh for me over the roads I drive. I gave up and traded it in on a 535Xi, which is much smoother over the same roads.

Bruce

circlew

Bruce, I assume that the 535xi has A/W tires. How does your new car perform in wet/dry driving? Snow?

The Conti RFT's are a vast improvement over the B/S and I have 17K on them now. With the old B/S EL42, at 10K the road noise was high and uneven tread wear was abnormal.

The '06 330xi suspension is tuned more aggressively, IMO. I concur with the difference from the standard '06 330i and '07 335i I drove which proved to be softer than my car.

Best Holiday wishes and a Happy New Year!

Regards,
OW

nybmw

I can't get my preferred AM/FM stations programmed following the instructions in the manal. Car is new 328xi with Navigation which includes an "Entertainment" section.

bruceomega

OW,

Although I really liked the looks of the optional 18" wheels and tires that were available (on top of the sports package), I declined to order those because they included RFTs and I was gun shy of both RFTs and extra low profile tires.

Instead, I stayed with the standard 17" wheels and all season tires (it came with Goodyear RS-As). One difference from my '06 330Xi is the standard a/s tires on the 535Xi have a higher speed rating and the car has a higher top speed than my 330Xi with it's standard a/s tires.

We've had one bad weather day so far, a combination of snow and ice, and the 535Xi was great.

Getting back to the 3 series, that is good news if BMW has tamed some of the harshness in the 335Xi compared to the '06 330Xi. Firm is fine, harshness is horrid.

MC and HNY,
Bruce

bdkinnh

>"What further convinces me is to read a post that advocates the shift to GFTs followed by another by the same owner complaining about the soft handling of the E90 so equipped."

I have been reading these boards (and others) since before runflats were introduced. I've read a lot of posts from people that switched from RFT to GFT, but I've never read that.

I could be wrong, so.... source please?

shipo

Yeah, I'm thinking that nkeen is referring to posts by blueguydotcom. He did the ED thing on a 330i to replace his E46 330i with the Performance Package (a decided upgrade from the Sport Package), and while he was more than pleased with the improvement that GFTs made on his E90, he still felt the car was too big, too heavy and too soft. In the end he did the Swap-a-lease thing and pawned his car off on someone else and then went and got a Cooper S. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

nkeen

You're correct Shipo. And I agree most of what blueguydotcom says re weight and handling, if not the size of the car, which fits me about right. Impact absorption is an issue with the car -- certainly would not have been on the roads I drove on in NW France last summer but it is on SE Penna roads. How much a factor of the tires that is, versus how much of ZSP and how much the 17" rims I don't know -- I drove a Legacy Wagon with low profile tires this week that felt a bit rough over Connecticut frost-heave and pot holes also - a solid bang at impacts where my wife's sedate old Malibu would float across with a "ker-plunk".

apike

Follow up to my previous post from Dec 14th, figured I would share my experience.

I purchased 2 front tires (225/45HR-17) and 2 rear tires (245/45HR-17) for my 328i SP from Tire Rack and had them installed at a local Goodyear tire center.

The installation took about 2 hours and the total cost of tires/shipping/labor was about $900. The tires are all season and handle very well in the rain/snow.

Only issue I have had was when I parked on snow with ice hidden underneath but that's not so much a tire issue as it is a 328i and not xi.

All in all this setup works great in almost any condition (I live in New England). I followed advice from both Tire Rack and my BMW service advisor.

dglassm

I have driven the automatic g-37 , its fun to drive but is not refined like bmw. Essentially a 13 year old engine that they continue to bore out, and a dated 5 speed that needs 6 . Add in the crappy gas mileage and they have old technology on the driver front (nice user interface). I seriously considered the g35x but in the end bought 335xi 2008 as it has a more modern drive train , good gas mileage, and has turbos (faster at altitude) which work great in Colorado .. Thus far the tires ContiProContact SSR and suspension have been solid in dry/snow/ice /mtns no complaints drives great . . Firm but not harsh.. even on potholes ..