Hyundai Azera vs Toyota Avalon vs Ford Taurus vs Chevrolet Impala

snakeweasel

If you have owned cars that have never had a componant failure in 10 years or 100,000 miles, you are probably the first one. Congratulations!

Lets see on my Mustang I had a major component failure at about 75K miles. But that was due to someone making a left turn in front of me way to late so that doesn't count.

Its replacement a Dodge Omni went to about 105K miles before it had a component fail.

Its replacement a Omni GLH went just over 45K before a component failed (a computer chip replaced under warranty) then went another 40-45K miles before anything else failed.

Its replacement a Chevy Corsica went about 110k before a component failed.

Its replacement a Town and Country went about 80K with no component failure before the wife got tired of it and we traded it in.

Its replacement a Elantra went 120+K miles before any components failed and nothing else has happened in the 20K miles after that.

The wifes current daily drive, an Accent is closing in on 100K and has had no components fail.

Again over $3K in warranty repairs (now mind you this is under the extended warranty) in my book is a :lemon:

floridabob1

You are very lucky!
Note that all of the models that you have listed are not high end models, with lots of bell and whistles like the Azera.
Although covered by warranty, my rear sunshade required replacement, which required hours of labor.
The more toys, the greater the chance of componant failure.
Heated seats, dual control a/c, rear a/c, power pedals, memory seats, power folding side mirrors, etc. These can be expensive to repair or replace.
I am generally not a fan of extended warranties, but this one seems to be an inexpensive option. Like life insurance, we hope to never use it.

snakeweasel

Note that all of the models that you have listed are not high end models, with lots of bell and whistles like the Azera.

The Caddy is but I didn't list that because there are not a lot of miles on that. Its driven only on weekends for "special" occasions.

I am generally not a fan of extended warranties, but this one seems to be an inexpensive option. Like life insurance, we hope to never use it.

Bad analogy as everyone dies, not all cars are problem prone.

barnstormer64

with only 83K miles on the clock has racked up at least $3k in warranty repairs. If that was my car it would be gone by now

And how much of its repair history would you reveal to prospective buyers? :surprise:

snakeweasel

receipts and work orders for everything. But we are not talking about that now are we?

Don't bother to take this further cause this fish don't take that bait.

pat

let's get back to comparing the subject vehicles...

floridabob1

RE: 516
At some point something will fail in EVERY car.
If you are lucky enough not to own it at that time you win.
In my over 50 years of driving, in many brands of cars, I have never had one that had not even one failure.

snakeweasel

At some point something will fail in EVERY car.

Yes at some point, hopefully that point will be very much down the line. However I would expect a car this day and age to get past 83K miles without something major going wrong, or at least without multiple repairs.

I am not expecting a car to go forever without something failing, I do expect it to go some distance though.

captain2

However I would expect a car this day and age to get past 83K miles without something major going wrong
exactly - and most of today's cars will do that without a problem, I remember when a car was deemed 'used up' at 60k, 100k almost unheard of. These days 150k not that remarkable - something those folks who sells these warranties understand. More importantly, they have the statistics that will give them a solid basis to price it in such a way that they can make some money.
Never have had the experience of arguing with a Hyundai dealer, for example, when the engine craters at 90k and I am in a position to substantiate all those oil changes I did myself instead of wasting all that time and money having them do it. But, then again, that would apply to any warranty claim wouldn't it - must make for some spirited conversations!

snakeweasel

Never have had the experience of arguing with a Hyundai dealer, for example, when the engine craters at 90k and I am in a position to substantiate all those oil changes I did myself instead of wasting all that time and money having them do it.

Only had one instance of using a Hyundai warranty. It seems that Elantras were made with bad exhaust manifolds back about the time mine was made. Hyundai extended the warranty on the exhaust manifolds to ten years unlimited miles. Well mine developed a crack at 120K miles (first and only issue with the car so far). Called up the service department and they said that if thats the problem they will take care of it. Well dropped mine of Sunday evening (they have a drop box for the keys) and Monday morning I got a call saying it was all taken care of. No problems getting them to honor that at all.

floridabob1

The people who participate in these forums must be blessed.
To have a car go 10 years and 100,000 miles with NO problems of any kind should qualify for Guiness Book of Records.
I'm not going to buy any stock in auto repair shops.

pat

if the cars being mentioned here as lasting for ten year with no problems (or even those repaired under warranty) were actually included in the subject of this discussion - hint, hint...

coldcranker

The Impala doesn't crash test all that well ( Crash Tests ), so its out. Wow, the other three cars are very good. I'd say the Toyota, in base XL trim, wins this comparo. You can't go wrong with any one of them. Avalons are rarely discounted, so a few thousand less for a base Ford500 or Azera may tip the scales in that direction. Actually, to be fair to GM, the Pontiac Grand Prix is more competitive to the others than the Impala.

joe97

If I were in the market for a large car, I will take the Azera. I can save at least over 5K on the Azera, comparably equipped. Scenario: I take the upfront savings and put them in a CD at 5.5%, or I have some great mutual funds earning at around 8-9%, on average. At some years later (and it doesn't have long-term), I will sell the Azera for xxxxx dollars. While it will probably be less than what I can get on a similar Avalon after the same amount of time, because of the

+ upfront savings pocketed
+ interest income earned
+ interest expense saved

I will actually end up with more cash at the end.

With Hyundai's improved resale values and Azera's predicted % (keep in mind the car is still a relative new model), you can take the above to the bank

quietpro

You've either never sat in an Grand Prix or your not that big of a person. The Grand Prix was a non-player for me because I could barely fit in the car. It has the smallest front seat area of any of the full-size cars I tested. My knees were against the dash, head against the ceiling, and shoulders against the door. It's hard to believe it's built on the same chassis as the Impala.
As for the Impala not testing well, it scored lower in one area than the Azera which gave it an overall "Average" rating. I wouldn't take that to mean it's unsafe, just not AS safe as the cars that scored higher. From the narrative, it said that a head injury was POSSIBLE from where the dummy's head made contact with the steering wheel. While that obviously isn't a preferrable rating, it doesn't make the car unworthy of consideration.

pahefner01

Have you ever driven a Cadillac STS? I have and I've got to tell you that it was fun outrunning RWD Chevys.

quietpro

The only RWD Chevies left are trucks, SUVs, and the Corvette. I know you aren't outrunning a Corvette so have all the fun you want hot rodding in front of the trucks/SUVs. I doubt you're outrunning the '02 Camaro either so you must be really cherry-picking your competition.

pahefner01

The question was have you ever driven a Seville STS. I assume the anser is no. And by the way the STS was a 95.

captain2

With Hyundai's improved resale values
there is no evidence at this point that this will actually be the case, only a history of bad resale values on earlier models. would suggest to you that since Hyundai is already offering some 'big' discounting the Azera (and Sonata) that this indicates continued lower resale values. The Avalon has the highest resale values largely because they are not discounted as heavily, so therefore, cost that much more to replace with a new one. In addition, if Hyundai is going to change history, they need to keep their products off the rental lots.

captain2

Extended warranties whether by the manufacturer or by a third party are priced just like a life insurance policy - it must cost more to buy than the anticipated costs of doing it. And nobody ever accused those life ins. companies of not making money on their products.
Getting some extended warranty pricing must, therefore, be a good indication of any car's future cost of repair - although not necessarily frequency. BMWs, for example, tend to be very expensive to put extended warranties on largely a function of how much they cost to fix and not necessarily because it is in the shop more or less than anything else. Extended warranties not a good deal in a strictly financial sense because for everybody that it does work for, there will be more folks that spent too much money on it.

gamleged

I'll be pleased if I did pay too much for my Azera's extended warranty, it will mean that my 2006 Limited will have been largely flawless for 100,000 miles!...

joe97

That's why I said, from my post over a month ago, predicted % (of retained value). Azera is predicted to have fairly good resale values. We'll see down the road, since it is too new of a car to say with any certainly.

tinydog1

My 06 Azera seems to be holding it's own. Kelly Blue Book values:
Trade in: 24,600
Private Party: 26,780
Retail: 29,490
I paid 27k out the door Dec. 05.

floridabob1

RE: 536
Auction prices for 06 Azera's ( Manheim) are running about $20 K. Don't go by Kelly values.

captain2

this, of course, makes no sense - why whould anybody in their right mind pay more money (or even something approaching) for your 1 year old Azera than it costs to buy a new one. Ain't gonna happen - the buyer would need to have an IQ just short of his body temperature. 20K or so sounds about right. Resale values must be based on what the car costs initially.

quietpro

The question was have you ever driven a Seville STS. I assume the anser is no. And by the way the STS was a 95.

No, I have never driven an STS. I still don't know of many RWD V-8 Chevys you would have outrun in a 95 STS. That's simply because there weren't many. In 95 there was the Corvette, Camaro, and Impala SS...all but the SS would have easily beaten the STS and the SS would likely have as well.

That said, I'm not saying that the STS is a slow or bad car. My '06 Impala SS has even more power than the STS and it flies! I'm not sure why you've picked an argument with me.

floridabob1

RE:535
Who is predicting good resale values for the Azera?
Try selling or trading one.

captain2

the fact is we don't know that the Azera will or will not hold value, it may very well be the first Hyundai in history to do so given how much of a 'bargain' the car is up front. Perhaps unfairly, the average buyer still thinks that a Hyundai is NOT something he wants seen in his driveway.
The Avalon is a lock - it not only costs more up front and is not discounted heavily, but has years and years of established resale value tradition and perceptions. Does it make up for the initial cost difference, maybe not, that difference does shrink as the years go by - but over a 'normal' 4-5 year ownership period I think you will find the total costs (net of resale) are closer than you would think.

barnstormer64

but over a 'normal' 4-5 year ownership period

But if you REALLY want to worry about saving money (isn't that what resale value is all about, in the end?), then you should be keeping a car for TWICE that long.

Why don't they? Perhaps that Japanese reliabilty isn't all it's cracked up to be? :P

floridabob1

RE:542
If you plan to keep a car until it "dies" than resale doesn't come into play at all.

gamleged

I keep a car "forever," or close to it. My bought-new '77 Accord lasted 328,000 miles and just shy of 20 years. My used '90 Accord (bought as a program car in '91) is still in my stable with 245,000 miles on the odo.

Resale value means nothing to me, as I expect to keep a car until the annual insurance cost is maybe 1/3rd the BlueBook value of the car!

My only risk, then, is whether the Azera, after the warranty period is over, will hold up as well as my Hondas have, over an extended period, and note that I was also taking a chance back in 1977 with only the second model year of the Accord, as imported into the US...

floridabob1

RE: 544
As I have planned to keep this Azera for a long time, I went for the extended warranty. I now figure that it's their problem for 100,000 miles or 10 years.

snakeweasel

My only risk, then, is whether the Azera, after the warranty period is over, will hold up as well as my Hondas have, over an extended period,

Well I have an Elantra wagon that should hit 140K this month, so far its been very reliable and its still running strong. Others that I know with Hyundais with plenty of miles report the same thing. So I wouldn't be to worried about long term reliability.

american

bob,I'm considering the 07 az.what is the xtended warranty cover and who did you purchase from?I'm going to the philly home show for one last look.

gamleged

I also went the extended route, giving me effectively a wrap-around warranty for that 100,000 miles... though I suspect that will take only seven years to run through, at most. I really LIKE this car and I drive it way more than I need to, I should put more miles on my old '90 Accord!...

barnstormer64

My bought-new '77 Accord lasted 328,000 miles and just shy of 20 years

Wow! I start to draw the line at about 8 to 10 years old. At that point, a new car starts to look fairly nice to me.

gamleged

Pick the right car to start with, maintain it well and keep it looking good and you may be able to restrain the new/newer car fever! I've given my '90 Accord an annual hand-wax and touched up every paint chip and "goosed" the external plastic parts so they shone. But my lousy cousin visited in October with a rented new Sonata and, well, one thing led to an Azera...

barnstormer64

Pick the right car to start with, maintain it well and keep it looking good

Easier said than done when I park at an uncovered park and ride 5 days a week.

gamleged

Ah. Well, there is that. My '77 Accord suffered in a like manner and continued to do so when I bought my slightly used '90 Accord (which sat in the garage except for weekends and trips) while my ol' '77 took the hot Texas sun as I worked...

snakeweasel

Easier said than done when I park at an uncovered park and ride 5 days a week.

I would say 10, let alone 20, Midwest winters (supposed to get a bad storm in a few days) will take their toll on any well maintained car.

gamleged

My '77 Accord spent its first year in Texas, its second and third years in Europe, mostly northern Italy (two minor accidents), and its remaining years back in Texas, with lots of travel to New Jersey, Winters and hail and tornados in Oklahoma, one really hot August in Scotsdale (which killed the Italian repair paint job). It moved all the trees (it was a hatchback) to my San Antonio house for planting and it carried the mail for a year on a "car contract" when I started with the USPS. The wiring harness finally went and I sold it to a Honda service adviser for a hundred bucks and as of two years ago, it sat in the back lot of Gunn Honda, serving as the parts dept. annex for storage of really old Honda parts.

It looked pretty ratty for the last few years (had a cousin ask if I hauled fertilizer.. which I had) and that taught me to do a better job with the '90 Accord's appearance... :shades:

barnstormer64

You could be arrested for "car abuse" :surprise: :P

tinydog1

gamleged, I too am in San Antonio. Who did you buy your Azera from. I bought from Red McCombs Superior, but use Hyundai Northwest on I-10 W for service.

gamleged

I moved in 1999. I'm now in SW Florida, near Sarasota, which is where I bought my Azera...

akoni1

I also live in the Sarasota area(Venice). Can you tell me who you bought your Azera from? Can you tell me how much I would have to pay (approx) for a limited ult?

captain2

barnstormer you certainly know better than that - guess you are just 'looking for trouble'. Don't have the statistics in front of me, but there is no doubt that especially considering leases, 4 to 5 years is likely an average and it has more to do with people just tiring of a car and/or being seduced by that newer shiny one. Based on real reliability statistics (CR type of things), however, and to feed your apparent appetite for something to 'discuss', if your do want to drive something for 10 years, it should probably be a 'Japanese' brand name - and it has been that way for a lot longer than that....

floridabob1

RE: 559
Cars never die for mechanical reasons. You can always keep adding new parts as the systems fail, although this practice can prove to be financially prohibitive or inpractical.

gamleged

I bought my 2006 Limited with the "Premium" package from Gettel on Bee Ridge, paying $27,600 "out the door." I couldn't say what the 2007s are currently going for, or how much further they may have come down on leftover 2006s.

Before I bought, I got the $39-for-three-months auto shopping thingy from Consumer Reports and used their recommended price target. Never used it 'cause Gettel offered me about $600 below what CU said I should aim for! $39 shot to Hell...

akoni1

Thanks for the info. I was considering the Consumer Reports scheme, but I thinl I'll go it alone. Again, thanks

quietpro

One of the hosts mentioned a little while back that Edmund's offers a nearly identical service as CU for free. I'd look into it...sometimes they are helpful...sometimes not but for $0, what have you got to lose.