Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Hyundai Azera vs Toyota Avalon vs Ford Taurus vs Chevrolet Impala

2456729

Comments

  • "Even my wife, a very mellow driver, commented on it's lack of power and responsiveness compared to her old car, a '00 Impala LS 3.8 V6 with 95,000 miles on the odometer."

    What's her 0-60 time in that thing?

    Edmunds say 8.2 seconds for a 2000 Impala LS

    What's your 0-60 time in the Five Hundred?

    Edmunds says 8.93 seconds for a 2005 Ford Five Hundred Limited w/AWD & CVT

    Be sure to actually TIME it, and give it the gas.

    Bleh. We already drove the car and felt it with the seat of our pants. Believe me, if even my wife notes a lack of power, it's readily apparent. When literally EVERY review notes the cars lack of power compared to it's competitors, that should probably tell you something, too. And where we really missed the power in the Five Hundred wasn't in jack rabbit starts and 0-60 times, but at highway speed when we punched it to see what kind of passing power it has. This is where we felt the Maxima really shineseven moreso than the Avalon. Not only is the car at least 2.5 seconds faster than the Five Hundred in 0-60, but it pulls hard all the way to 6500rpm and the passing power is phenomenal. It's just plain FUN to drive. (Probably a good thing it's the wife's primary car. I'd have a ticket by now. :P )

    "Not if the Corvette drivers are even trying."

    And that was exactly my point.

    Am I going to win drag races in a Ford Five Hundred? Nope

    Do I have enough power to (safely) get around those who are in my way with one? Yup.

    Can I beat 99.9% of the drivers of a Toyota Avalon when I want to with it? Yup.


    Yes, the Five Hundred has adequate power to safely drive and manuever in modern traffic. No one is disputing that. Yeah, you will probably beat my 70 year old parents and their Avalon to the next stoplight. I'm not exactly sure what bragging rights that gives anyone. I guess it boils down to whether one wants to settle for merely adequate or go for ample in the power department.

    By the way, we kept that '00 Impala LS as a work car for myself. So I suppose I'll be able to thrash those Five Hundreds in either the Maxima or the old beater. :P

    The Five Hundred could be such a better car if Ford would just give it the heart it deserves.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    vehicle dynamics (braking, power, handling etc.) without a doubt THE most important set of safety features on any car. It's not whether you use the Avalon's power regulary, it is the fact that it is there if and when you need it. The 500 is a big comfortable car that falls well short of any Avalon (and even things like 300 3.5's) in this regard. Ford has been having some trouble getting the car off the dealer lots, Avalons generally hsve to be ordered - should tell you something. Yes, I own an Avalon - and will tell you that I never even considered a Ford product and never will or, at least, until I see the Red Sea part again!
  • gteegtee Posts: 179
    Like I said, you in a Ford 500 can beat 98% of Chevette drivers on the road. Maybe you can take on Ford Expedition drivers and Ford Focus drivers. I think that most Ford Explorer drivers are also good targets for you especially if it comes with V6 engine. So keep an eye out for that V8 sign on Explorers.

    I also drove both the 500 and Avalon and there is simply no comparison between two cars. Avalon is much faster and much quieter. The engine is much smoother in Avalon. I did like the trunk in 500 and I thought that 500 was more solid car. I also liked the inside of a 500 better. Ford 500 is also much cheaper. You can pick one up in Atlanta for under $20K. Avalon is at least $6-8K more then a 500. Its almost not fair to compare the two cars because they are in a different price range. I have not test driven a GM car in 10 years. One GM car was enougth to last me a life time.

    Ford 500 with the new 3.5L will be a great car, but right now its underpowered. Even Ford admits that they released 500 and Freestyle with current 3.0l engine because the development of 3.5L engine was behind schedule.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    The Azera at least on paper looks to be a viable alternative to the Avalon. Would not expect it to have the Av's near Lexus level of fit and finish, but in terms of drivetrain and option levels it looks to save almost 5 grand over the Avalon. Actually, it needs to - research resale values on a 3 year old Sonata V6 vs. let's say a Camry V6 (Accords and Altimas also apply) - what you will find out is that at trade-in time the higher values of the Japanese cars exceed the difference in cost new. Unfair, perhaps (in view of the Hyundai's warranties), but why not not buy the Avalon, in this case, if you are going to get the higher cost back (and then some) when it comes time to sell it? Korean cars unfortunately have a stigma of, well, being Korean - despite the fact that the new much, much improved Sonata V6 is actually a pretty fine little car and I'm guessingt that the Azera is likely following suit.
    The Impala, Pontiac, 500, and even the 300 not even in the same class as the Av and probably the Azera!
  • "and will tell you that I never even considered a Ford product and never will or, at least, until I see the Red Sea part again!"

    Well, at least we know you're not biased. LOL
  • "Edmunds say 8.2 seconds for a 2000 Impala LS "

    "Edmunds says 8.93 seconds for a 2005 Ford Five Hundred Limited w/AWD & CVT "

    And this site

    http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/Spec_Glance.aspx?year=2005&make=Ford&model=Five%20Hundre- d&trimid=-1

    Says 7.6 seconds for the SEL with CVT (no AWD)

    And this site

    http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/New/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/38122/Act/Roadtest?print=- yes/

    says 7.5 seconds for the AWD / CVT combo

    And this site

    http://www.automarketreview.com/1112504.shtml

    says "That said, it actually doesn't perform as lethargically as the power numbers suggest (7.5 to 8.5 second 0-60 times, depending on AWD and tranny)"

    And MotorTrend

    http://motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0411_hd_500ford/index2.html

    says 7.5 (fwd); 8.0 (awd)

    "Yeah, you will probably beat my 70 year old parents and their Avalon to the next stoplight. I'm not exactly sure what bragging rights that gives anyone."

    $20 says I'll beat at least 90% of those my age driving one, too. Why? They bought the car for status, not to actually use the driving performance capabilities.
  • "My other issue is just that a 3.0L engine putting out barely over 200 horses isn't good enough anymore. The Duratec is a fine engine, but it's being laden with an AWD system, making the power a bit deficient."


    "What's Hot
    • Voluminous interior space, nice appointments
    • Refined, well-controlled handling
    • Sharp steering, good brakes

    What's Not

    • Engine sadly underspec'd
    • Fit and finish not yet up to the best Japanese/German standards
    • Styling not for everyone
    "
  • "Yeah, you will probably beat my 70 year old parents and their Avalon to the next stoplight. I'm not exactly sure what bragging rights that gives anyone."

    $20 says I'll beat at least 90% of those my age driving one, too. Why? They bought the car for status, not to actually use the driving performance capabilities.

    Do you not understand that you are not "beating" someone who isn't even trying? Avalon drivers must thoroughly humiliate every Five Hundred they encounter lest they be deemed mere status seekers? Have you even driven a new Avalon and seen how much more refined and better equipped it is than a Five Hundred? We certainly know that people are not buying Five Hundreds for their performance capabilities.

    Dang, the next time I manage to out-accelerate a Five Hundred or any other new car from a stoplight in my 23 year old 82hp CJ8 I'll have to remind myself what a great driver I am and how competitive my Jeep is.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    only has to do with Ford's astounding track record of putting well assembled and reliable vehicles on the road. Can't think of one - at least in the last 50 years - well after, however, when the Red Sea parted...
  • goodegggoodegg Posts: 905
    This car isn't even in the showroom yet. So we have to compare a video of it to these other cars? What if it has the lame driver's seat init like the Sonata?

    I wouldn't want to buy a first year edition of any Korean car considering their reputation. Aren't they having a fire sale on the XG350 now?
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    and you're right - awfully hard to truly evaluate a car not really available yet. Hyundai has, however, been doing a much better job with quality. Don't know how the new Sonata V6 is fairing but was pretty impressed (for as car costing less than $20k ) esp. with the drivetrain. The Azera has the power, and general other specs. that it should be competitive - we'll see. Yeah, would imagine they are giving away the XG350. The real problem may be that 'Korean' reputation, and how it effects resale values.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    There are plenty of Fords on the road that are well assembled and reliable, they just get no respect.

    I have had two Tauri, a 1990 stripped Vulcan LX that served me well for ten years and 100K miles. This car for it's time handled and drove very well and never developed any squeeks or rattles.

    My current 2000 SES Duratec is at 56K and has been rock solid, handles well. Yes you can call it blah and a rental car and the usual press cliches, but it is solid and well built. Furthermore I bought it new out the door for $18K. You couldn't find any V-6 CamCord for anywhere near that price at the time, and still can't find one even near $20K today.

    Avalon is pushing into luxury car prices, and well it should with all the bells and whistles they have loaded onto even the base model. If you compared more on comparable price ranges, then Toyota, Honda and Nissan don't really have much to offer anymore, as Maxima and Avalon have priced themselves into the luxury ranges these days, and Honda has nothing to compete against the Five-hundred in the large car, reasonably low price market.
  • I believe power is both overrated and subjective. The 500 merges well and has enough power to pass easily. It doesn't snap your head back from a stop, however, if thats what's important to you. My favorite guage of what is sufficient is whether the car needs to downshift going up hills on the highway at 65. The 500 with the 6 speed doesn't, so I'd call it good enough. For $8k or more less than the Avalon, you should expect some compromises, whether its power, features, or quality of interior. Most liokely a combination of all. Thank god Ford didn't switch to RWD. Chryslers 'hot' new cars are essentially 4 passenger vehicles replacing competent 5-6 passenger cars. While many folks on these forums are too young to remember, there were very good reasons for the switch to FWD in the first place.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    For anyone who might have missed it, this is copied from the Edmunds Sedans newsletter:

    "Hyundai last week said its new Azera full-size sedan would be priced very competitively with the Ford Five Hundred, Nissan Maxima and Toyota Avalon, its prime competition. The Azera SE -- with standard 263-hp, 3.8-liter V6; eight airbags; stability control; and a five-speed automatic -- will retail from $24,995, Hyundai says. The Limited model will be priced from $27,495 with added equipment like a CD changer and foglamps; and the Ultimate Package on the Azera Limited with leather trim and other features brings the price of that model to $29,995. The Azera goes on sale late this year, but Hyundai will be advertising the vehicle heavily in the beginning of 2006 as more vehicles arrive in showrooms."

    Click here to see the newsletter itself.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Seems like a very good price. The Avalon limited is around $33-34 I believe?

    Hyundai is putting together attractive products. It's surprising how fast Hyundai has changed its offerings.
  • bruneau1bruneau1 Posts: 468
    You are quite right. The 500 is not underpowered. We have become obsessed with 0-60 acceleration numbers. The difference of .5 second or even a second or even 2 seconds is not perceptible in real world driving. Ok, if people want to haul heavy loads and drive like a fool, get a V-8. The 500 should have an optional engine, but we will have to wait for that. Americans are obsessed with mine is bigger than yours.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    If you can't tell the difference through the seat of the pants between a car that takes 8 seconds to 60 and 10 seconds to 60, you need to have the seat of your pants examined (same goes for the 6 second to 8 second comparison).

    Also, I can feel a difference between an Accord I4 5A and a Camry I4 5A, two cars separated in acceleration by about half a second to 60.

    ~alpha
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    I am sure what bruneau1 means and what was stated was that IN REAL WORLD DRIVING the differences are imperceptible.

    Really, how many time does the average driver put the pedal to the floor from 0-60, or even get the opportunity to do that? Almost never. Thus, whether your car gets to 60 in 8 seconds 6 is 99% of the time not important, if people were honest enough to admit it.

    The HP wars have gotten ridiculous. I am old enough to have owned a 1977 Buick Century with a 350 cubic inch 2 barrel V-8 that was slower than even my 1990 Vulcan Taurus and had not much better than 1/2 the fuel efficiency. Now I own a 2000 Duratec equipped Taurus that has about more guts than anyone really needs for everyday driving, and the Five Hundred with either the six speed or CVT is just about as quick as my lighter weight Taurus.
  • If we all drove only what we needed, we'd all be in base model Ford Focuses, Toyota Corollas, maybe a minivan, etc. No one truly needs an Avalon, Impala, Five Hundred, Maxima, etc.

    I consider the world I drive to be just as real as anyone elses and even in my daily driving I can definitely tell the difference between our 265hp Maxima and our 200hp Impala. I don't have to put the pedal to the floor to both notice and appreciate the difference, either. The Maxima is so much stronger, smoother, and has a sweet exhaust note. Both cars get roughly the same fuel economy, so why wouldn't I want the one that can be funner to drive? I suppose that if one is numbered among those poor souls stuck in mindnumbing, bumper to bumper stop and go traffic day in and day out then they might not appreciate the difference in performance. Then again, they probably also would not perceive the added benefits of full independent suspension, 4 wheel disk brakes, etc.
  • badgerfanbadgerfan Posts: 1,565
    MSRP of base 2006 3.5 litre Impala is over $6k less than the base Maxima, I would hope your getting something for that!
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    Good point. Any Impala with an MSRP at or above $26.3K is either a 3LT, LTZ, or SS- meaning its 242 horses or 303.
    (A 211 hp 2LT with every option is $26,250, and the 3LT actually starts at $24.5K MSRP).

    This is the problem with the one-engine-size-fits-few Ford Five Hundred; regardless of dollars paid, you're still getting a slow (for the class) vehicle.

    ~alpha
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,753
    a 200 hp sho was a lot of car.
    what has changed? 1 second better to 60?
  • Actually it was 220 HP. But the Taurus SHO is smaller and lighter than the 500. FORD really goofed in the engine department. As to people saying the 500 has adequate power; sure for 80 year olds living in a small towns whose only driving is to and from the grocery store. But most people do a lot highway and interstate driving that requires quick merging in the least possible time.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    is that paying high 20s for a car should yield some kind of premium reward. Is being able to keep pace with a four cylinder Accord that kind of reward? Not to me. Thats the issue with the Five Hundred.... for 26K OTD, a loaded model should do better than keep pace with a 20K 166 hp Accord (or get better MPG, which certainly it doesnt).

    ~alpha
  • alman08alman08 Posts: 282
    WELL SAID! :shades:
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,753
    the '89-'91 sho had 200hp, '92-95 had 220, 96-99 had 235.
    i owned one of each type. ;)
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    actually glad to hear that you have had some luck with your Tauri, but, reliability stats don't generally support anything 'superior' ever coming from Ford if you are going to consider the Camry, Altima, and/or Accord benchmarks, which I will grant you probably cost 10-15% or so more.
    Same comment I made on about the Azera's probable resale also apply to the Taurus and Ford products, in general. A 2003 Camry XLE retails at $16.6K, the SEL Taurus $12.2K. Even with the Taurus being sold at heavier discounts than the Camry initially, still makes more sense to invest in one of the Japanese brands new. Using the Mazda 6 as a base, the new Fusion/Milan is now supposed to compete in this class - but is also hampered by the same 3 liter V6 - while Accords and Altimas run 250 hp, and even the 07 Camry coming with some variant of the Av/IS350 engine. You can defend the 500 power as 'sufficient' all you want, but Ford had better wake up and get with the program - they will take a beating in the market until the point that they have to give away the 500 at 20-30% discounts or more. Hard to make money that way, and largely responsible for Ford's current financial woes. Until Ford can make the otherwise well designed 500 a car with some 'heart'; subjectively, some stand out styling; and perhaps even change the nameplate - this problem should continue.
    MT just ran its COY issue, by the way, won by the Civic with apparently a close second to the Azera. The Avalon highly rated but lower - because of higher price. The 500 - didn't even get interviewed, unlike the Impala and Lucerne - both of which at least made the cut.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    The SHO, I believe, actually had an engine made by Yamaha - was well ahead of its time but certainly not Ford's technology?
  • csandstecsandste Posts: 1,866
    Wouldn't the 500 been in last year's group?
  • "but, reliability stats don't generally support anything 'superior' ever coming from Ford if you are going to consider the Camry, Altima, and/or Accord benchmarks,"

    Regardless of the "stats", my own experience says that there simply isn't much difference.

    I've owned three Tauri. One of my brothers has owned several Camry's, and the other brother has owned a few Civics.

    We've all had basically the same amount of money that was needed to be spent on out of warranty repair work during the same time period (say 15 years).

    "Even with the Taurus being sold at heavier discounts than the Camry initially, still makes more sense to invest in one of the Japanese brands new."

    Again, I've NEVER seen that to be true. About the best thing you can say is that the residual value of the foreign cars will be higher than the American cars . . . such that your total cost of ownership is roughly the same over the same time period.
This discussion has been closed.