Toyota on the mend?

louiswei

If you are saying that your 1987 Camry was on 1.5-3k miles interval and that's within what the manual has suggested and the engine still went wrong then you got no objection from me that it should be Toyota's rear.

ruking1

..."So whatever that is for you in the scheme of things is OFF topic-probably?

Didn't say that either, so maybe chill now...eh? "...

No, I said it, AND I said that I said it.

YOU said...

..."Been there, seen a whole lot worse my friend!
Learned by bitter experience what's worth waxing serious wrath about happens to be quite different than yours, I guess---eh? "...

So getting back to the topic, following your logic it should be a nit for Toyota to adopt a 10,000 miles OCI specification!? Or are you really speaking code justifying that/those dreadfully consumptive interval/s? Surely Toyota is NOT technically incapable?

It should be obvious dealers/vendors profit more from 3,000 to 5,000 mile OCI's vs say 10,000 mile OCI's or roughly 2 to 3.33 TIMES better!?

gagrice

Good idea.

What is Toyota doing to beef up the flimsy frame and tailgates on the 2008 Tundra?

louiswei

Nothing.

The only differences between 07 and 08 would be some minor package offerings with accessory options.

I wonder how many were affected by the tailgate and how many Tundra owners are complaining about the frame while it can pull 10k pounds without breaking a sweat...

Maybe I should complain about my IS350 since it only has a 6-speed auto tranny but the C350 has a 7-speed. Wait, mine is much faster, never mind...

One thing I would like to see from the Tundra is a re-designed interior with better materials. With that said I would still pick the Tundra (has to be a 5.7L V8) over any other fullsize pickups on any given day.

nippononly

Thanks Mack! :-)

And of course the problem with that approach to engineering is that all the people who get their work done at dealers will have the updated parts and procedures for those brakes, but folks going to their local shop (well over half by the age these models are now, I would imagine) will still be putting up with the grinding and short pad life even all these years later....

kdhspyder

New models this coming year, roughly in chronological order...
..a radically new Sequoia ( here now )
..a mildly refreshed Camry as the current No 1 auto in the US
..a mildly redone 'all new' Corolla as the No-1-to-be auto in the US
..a 'segment breaking' new CUVwagonCrossover Venza, probably with a hybrid option.
..no more Solara's
..a mildly redone Sienna to keep up with the Joneses ( Ody, T&C ). A hybrid option?
..a mildly redone Prius with probably a real world new EPA rating back above 50 mpg Combined. ( Two new Prius models? )

gagrice

I am sure the frame was built with a smooth ride in mind. My 2005 GMC 1/2 ton was not nearly as smooth riding on our lousy freeways here in San Diego, as is our new Sequoia. Most PU trucks suffer from what is referred to as "Freeway Hop" around here. I have not driven the Tundra so cannot comment on that. If they have lightened the frame to compensate for a rough ride it could be a problem down the road 10 years. I don't think they can have an excuse for a tailgate that buckles. Unless it was abused by dropping a heavy object on it.

nippononly

NOW we're talking! :-)

My bet is the new Sequoia will sell slowly until the day they (maybe) put a diesel in it, and even then this segment of the market will become a smaller and smaller niche. But I am sure Toyota is well aware of that.

I will have a gentlemen's bet with you over the #1/#2 compacts if you like. I see 2008 as POSSIBLY the year Civic outsells Corolla, but I must admit I was surprised to see Civic sales tail off so badly in '07.

What are the odds of a hybrid Sienna? Will it sell under $30K sticker? Seems like a very good idea, but not if the price would have to rise so high that no-one would buy it.

I think the Venza will sell well, especially if folks can get the hybrid for around $25K (real world) and the LE 4-cyl for around $22K. In fact, I think it will steal sales from the Highlander, and does this mean that Highlander will definitely NOT have a 4-cylinder engine option in the future? Might be just as well, with the Venza coming on the scene.

What's the other Prius model you refer to? Base and touring, like now? Or "super economy" and "regular"?

What are they doing to "mildly update" the Camry for '09? It seems kind of silly to continue to offer a CE trim, when so little differentiates it from the LE. Perhaps they will drop that trim?

gagrice

What are the odds of a hybrid Sienna? Will it sell under $30K sticker? Seems like a very good idea, but not if the price would have to rise so high that no-one would buy it.

I would say that is very unlikely. The limited Sienna with decent equipment is selling in the $36k area after rebates. I would expect a hybrid Sienna to hit $40k.

kdhspyder

I like the styling very very much of the new Corolla and it is afterall for NA a basic economy car. I think the timing with fuel heading northward is serendipitous. I can see all small fuel efficient vehicles being snapped up like there was no tomorrow.

One key benefit that Toyota has over Honda in both the Accord line and the Civic line is that Toyota has more manufacturing capacity. They can always out sell either model if they want. First 2008 prognostication
Corolla edges out the Camry for No1
Camry is safely 2nd but flat in sales ( maxed capacity )
Accord is 3rd but flat also ( maxed capacity )
Civic...weird dunno what to think.

Sienna hybrid? I was hoping for a 2.4L+HSD but now I think not. I think we'll see the same 3.3L+HSD that's in the Highlander hybrid at a price that's similar as well. $34,000-ish

Venza 2.4L, 2.4L+HSD and 3.5L models parallelling the Camry configurations. Pricing starting at $25000 and ranging up to $35000. It fills the gap between the RAV and the Highlander. I think the hybrid version will begin at $27000-$28000.

In addition to the Prius 5 door hatch which should be about the same size but mildly redone, there may be a smaller 4 door Prius sedan and maybe a smaller hybrid utility vehicle. If the Venza doesn't have a hybrid option then maybe there will be a Prius CUV. There was talk earlier of making the well-received Prius name a mini-brand unto itself, sedan, hatch, CUV, van.

kdhspyder

The Sienna and the Highlander are the same vehicle only different.

One of the overriding concerns now is that CAFE 35 is now law. Vehicle makers have to be putting their efforts into making all the vehicles comply and doing it sooner rather than later is always good business. It's going to take the US public a good 5-10 yrs to reorient its thinking toward hybrids and/or diesels across the board

One factor that tells me that there will be a hybrid Sienna in this next Gen is that there will be a diesel Odyssey in the next Gen. Neither of these two is going to let the other get a 'free shot' at the US public as we scramble for more fuel efficient vehicles. Honda has a bit of a bloody nose from the Accord hybrid but the diesel Accord may in the future be everything the Camry hybrid is today. Honda has some work to do. Round 1

Toyota OTOH is not going to cede the fuel efficiency title to Honda in the minivan market. Round 2

silverfox5

No wish to argue, thanks. Chilling makes more sense...eh?
I'll just stick by what I posted, not how/what/why neither you nor anyone else interprets it to mean.
Besides, as Gagrice says, this is about 2008, not about rehashing the 90s.
Regards.
.

gagrice

Civic...weird dunno what to think.

It is quirky looking. Evokes the same love it, Hate it as the Prius. I think the 07 Camry to a lessor extent has the look that divides. I cannot say that I have seen the new Accord yet. Is the new Corolla out yet?

Question,
Is the new style xB selling well? I liked the old boxy one better. Have only seen one of the new style on the road.

silverfox5

Does anyone know if XM or Sirius is standard in any of the 08 Toyotas?

kdhspyder

Having had 4 previous Camrys I really really like this Gen more than any of the others. I've seen the Accord on our Honda lot but have not driven one yet..ditto I've seen the new Malibu on our Chevy lot but have not driven that one either. It's a very legitimate competitor.

The new Corolla is just being built. It should start shipping in mid-Jan to arrive in mid-Feb. It will look like a smaller version of the current Gen6 Camry. Size-wise it's interesting in that it's nearly the same size as the 97-2001 Gen4 Camry in width and height, except 11" shorter. The 1.8L in this Gen10 Corolla has more power than the 2.2L Gen4 Camry; it has better fuel economy; the Corolla will offer more safety features both standard and optional than that Camry ever offered; the Corolla will offer more interior niceties than that Camry ever could offer....and it will be priced lower.

Now that is a slick accomplishment.

sjaieve

I am new to this forum but all I wanted to say is Toyota is going to take over the auto industry in 2008, and there are going to do this while offereing the current 3 year/36000 mile warranty. I do agree with the assessment that the corolla will either come in second or first, the camry being the contender for the number one spot of course.

mackabee

It's an option on most Toyotas.

ruking1

..."Civic...weird dunno what to think.

It is quirky looking. Evokes the same love it, Hate it as the Prius. I think the 07 Camry to a lessor extent has the look that divides. I cannot say that I have seen the new Accord yet. Is the new Corolla out yet? "...

Styling is one of those things that oems seem to pay a lot of attention. How particular styles strike different (especially a buyer) folks would be fine with me, whatever the decision/s. At first look to catch a fast impression, to me the Corolla looks like the older to past year (2003-2007) Civics. The new Civic looks like an more updated Civic with a touch of Prius thrown in. They all have each other in their competitive sights, so I think what happens is they wind up looking like each other: but with that touch or spin that differentiates.

If I was in the market for a Civic/Corolla, the styling would not be a deal breaker as both would have the majority of things I would be looking for in a compact car. Going forward, both are some of the few products that actually get (the 2020 Standard) 35 mpg NOW. So I would agree with KDHSpyder about the increased (segment) demand.

I also like the Mazda's 3 product, as it reputedly handles better than either the Corolla/Civic, sans the fuel mileage. They include a wagon product in the product mix where the other two don't..

The other is the largest and best Toyota dealer ship (in this area) has just moved its flagship location literally within hiking distance. It still has its downtown big metro city location. I have been dealing with this Toyota dealership for the last 21 years. Another is a Honda dealer is in the process of constructing new facilities, a parcel or two away from the flagship location Toyota dealership.

gagrice

the Corolla will offer more interior niceties than that Camry ever could offer....and it will be priced lower.

I kind of expected the Corolla or Civic to sneak into first place this year. So if the new Corolla is all you say, it may just pull it off. I do think that the size and power race reached its peak and Accord may have gone too far. If the Accord cannot hold onto 3rd place with the new model, Honda is in some trouble.

nippononly

"If I was in the market for a Civic/Corolla, the styling would not be a deal breaker as both would have the majority of things I would be looking for in a compact car. Going forward, both are some of the few products that actually get (the 2020 Standard) 35 mpg NOW."

Actually, the new 35 mpg CAFE standard equates to 26 mpg using the ratings on window stickers for 2008 MY. Which Camry 4-cylinder is already within spitting distance of achieving. So Camry is already meeting the standard for 2020. From my perspective, that just demonstrates how pathetic the new standard is, but it's good news for Toyota, since 4-cylinder Camrys (and Corollas too) are the foundation of its business model this decade.

And Corolla DOES offer a wagon, it's called a Matrix. Civic offers a wagon/hatchback in other markets too, and many have speculated/wished/dreamed that Honda will/would bring it here to the States.

The new Sequoia is in at my local dealer - very "roundy" looking.

ruking1

..."Actually, the new 35 mpg CAFE standard equates to 26 mpg using the ratings on window stickers for 2008 MY."...

Thanks for stating the REAL projected 2020 (defacto) 35 mpg standards.

Since we get between 38-42 mpg on a 2004 Honda Civic (16/17 years earlier!?) , I still stand by what I said.

However, your posted quote reminds me I follow the Honda Civic Real World MPG thread. In that thread, there are distinct groups (actually most) that gets FAR less than what we do: a surprisingly large % group gets high teens to less than mid 20's!?

Actually the current "defacto" standards are 22 mpg. So the increase (from 22 to 26 mpg) despite lofty numbers (35 mpg) is a 15.4% increase.

Underneath all this "guess where the pea is under which shell," game, what is abundantly clear is the almost exponential increase/s in almost ALL related costs which is reflected for example in the True Cost To Own-TCTO (Edmunds.com) on a Toyota Corolla LE at .51 cents per mile driven. It should go without mention that this is with just one of the better COMPACT car/s!!?? A mention: Honda Civic is actually cheaper by 4%. If you want to include a Camry LE, that pencils in at .58 cents. (12% more than Corolla) Prius comes in at ..55 cents, despite VASTLY better and improved EPA numbers. Getting a tad farther afield, Camry Hybrid comes in at .62 cents.

I am sure that you would agree, the "MISSION IMPOSSIBLE" Task, would be to get the per mile driven cost down as far away as possible from the .51-..58 cents per mile driven.

kdhspyder

Actually the current "defacto" standards are 22 mpg. So the increase (from 22 to 26 mpg) despite lofty numbers (35 mpg) is a 15.4% increase.

195850

I have a 2007 toyota tundra and would like to add a cold air intake, but not sure which one would work the best.

Claires

A good place to ask is in the Toyota Tundra Group, maybe in the Toyota Tundra Accessories & Modifications topic.

louiswei

Toyota Motor Corp. overtook Ford Motor Co. to become the No. 2 automaker by U.S. sales in 2007, using new products and relentless strategy to break Ford's 75-year lock on the position.

Toyota sold 48,226 more cars and trucks than Ford, according to sales figures released Thursday. Toyota's sales were up 3 percent for the year, buoyed by new products like the Toyota Tundra pickup, which saw sales jump 57 percent.

Source: Toyota Overtakes Ford to Become the No. 2 Automaker by US Sales in 2007

ruking1

For sure they are closing in on the long time boggie man, GM!!

Now if they could reverse the pounding of TM shares in the stock market!!??

The stock is 2.1% higher than its 52 week lows.

imidazol97

What are reasons the stock is priced low relative to recent pricing? Is it related to something about Toyota? I would think their stock would be doing great.

louiswei

I don't think Toyota will catch GM in US sales in the foreseeable future, if ever. However, one could expect to see TMC and GM go head to head in world sales for years to come.

Personally, I would rather see Toyota being a close 2nd than first.

silverfox5

Toyo isn't being hit as hard as most.
Stock prices for the entire manufacturing sector are below, at, or within a couple of percentage points, of their 52 week low.
Yesterday and today's losses are the highest on record for a beginning new year.
Actually. TM's fiscal results are good, probably due to its better performance than most in its sector--especially the big 3.
GM's got a chance at bouncing back, and they've got some excellent product just now which may help.
Personally I'd be happy to see both Toyota and GM sitting on top of the heap---either one ahead of the other or visa versa.
It'll be good for the buying public.

Noted---Looks like the neverendum is ended at the sludge forum. 'Bout time!

lemko

Actually, Ford's hold onto the Number 2 position isn't that long. Chrysler surpassed Ford as the Number 2 automaker in the 1930s only to lose that position in the early 1950s from which Ford held the spot until recently.

hypnosis44

Some of the stock price slide is likely related to the slide/softness in the Dollar against the Yen.

nippononly

revised its 2008 sales forecast downward a bit, but still expects a 1-2% increase in a flat market:

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080104/FREE/524399880/1528/- - - newsletter01

The folks at Autoweek are speculating that 2008 may be the year when Toyota becomes the #1 selling brand in the U.S. In 2007, Chevy was just slightly ahead, by about 90K vehicles. If 2007 trends continue in 2008 for Chevy, and Toyota pulls a 2% increase, it will be very very close come next December...

And the good news was Prius made more than 180K, and Camry got pretty close to half a million. Tundra didn't quite get there, but it got close at 196,555 for the year.

Oh, and Toyota (all brands) beat Ford (all brands) by a comfortable margin of more than 60K sales. So it is slotting fairly securely into the spot as the #2 automaker in the U.S.

otto8

This guy took care of his own rusted frame problem:
(Note the front fenders and lack of a bed)

fintail

What is that, like an 89?

rockylee

No, I think a 2005 fintail.

-Rocky

nippononly

it can be with that front clip is about a '92. But if those are its original rims, then fintail is right, it's an '89 or older. IOW, almost 20 years old and still ticking, a living breathing testament to Toyota longevity and durability! ;-)

fintail

Yeah...that cab style was made from 89-94...so it's not a new vehicle.

rockylee

IOW, almost 20 years old and still ticking, a living breathing testament to Toyota longevity and durability!

Yeah, it's probably a one of a kind. If that is living and breathing testament to quality and durability then all those 80's domestic vehicles weren't bad at all as I actually see many still from that era and they look alot better than that three tires in the junkyard tinament. :surprise:

-Rocky

nippononly

Silly silly Rocky! :-P

Want to bet its still the original unopened engine under the hood? That 22RE was one of a kind man. It's too bad they finally quit using it.

The only 80s cars I still see in any quantity around here are Accords and Integras, with a smattering of the 2nd gen Camry thrown in.

rockylee

Want to bet its still the original unopened engine under the hood? That 22RE was one of a kind man. It's too bad they finally quit using it.

Hey, you won't get any arguements from me on the engines durability cuz those old yota engines were pretty good.

The only 80s cars I still see in any quantity around here are Accords and Integras, with a smattering of the 2nd gen Camry thrown in.

I rarely see a 80's import around here nippon. I can't remember the last one. Wait I saw one at McDonalds, about 2 months ago. It was one of the first Lexuses based on the camry I think. It was in pretty rough shape but she ran. I do see a few early to mid 90's camcords once in a while. I mainly see late 90's to present camcords as far as imports go. The steel quality has certainly gotten better as time went on for the imports. I was being sarcastic calling that yota, a 2005 but it seemed it flew over a few heads. :P

-Rocky

uplanderguy

"The only 80s cars I still see in any quantity around here are Accords and Integras, with a smattering of the 2nd gen Camry thrown in."

Man, where do you live, California? By far the most frequent '80's iron I see in these parts (N.E. Ohio) are full-size Chevys, and the RWD GM mid-size cars (Monte Carlo, Cutlass Supreme, Regal, Grand Prix), and this is the land of salty winter highways! Considering that most 'elite' car folks consider GM the bottom of the barrel back then, I smile every time I see one...which is about daily!

Bill P.

gagrice

CA & AZ are the only places you will see any Japanese cars from the 1980s. Any place with rain or snow and they rusted away very quickly.

imidazol97

My experience matches uplander. There are a few foreign cars but not many. But there are many GM cars from the 80s. Lots of Chrysler products and Fords.

colloquor

Here's one of my '80s vintage cars - still going strong after almost 23 years - a 1985 SAAB 900 5-speed.

rockylee

I see lots of old Saabs. Those things were bullet proof.

-Rocky

colloquor

Hi Rocky - I had a couple of other JPGs of my Swedish Iron, a 1987 SAAB 900S and a 1970 Volvo 144S, but I chose not to post them. Actually, I did post them, but soon after deleted them. After all, this is the "Toyota in 2008" thread, not a Swedish thread! I didn't think the hosts would have appreciated the change in direction and/or focus of the thread.

I am sure that a late model Toyota will stand the test of time in the rust belt where I'm located.

rockylee

I am sure that a late model Toyota will stand the test of time in the rust belt where I'm located.

Hello colloquor, yeah they should but we will see.......

nippononly

to see the contrast in automotive fleet between the Midwest and California/west coast. And yes, I'm in California. Extra-strict smog standards knock most old stuff off the road before the age of 15, and stuff older than 20 years is virtually non-existent for the same reason, unless it is older than 1975 (the first year of the smog laws) or a diesel (smog-exempt).

Honda has always been especially good at building engines to run clean and rely less on cats and other stuff downstream to meet the standards. As a result, they tend to pass the smog checks after most other cars have become uneconomical to bring up to code for smog.

louiswei

No, I think a 2005 fintail.

Want to bet your car key that it's NOT a 2005? Should be a nice bet for you consider it's going to be Impala key vs. IS350 key...

louiswei

CA & AZ are the only places you will see any Japanese cars from the 1980s.

I see bunch of those 1980s Japanese car in Atlanta as well.