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Toyota on the mend?

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  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    Rocky, this time the Toyota recalls are front and center in the news. IMO negative coverage of Toyota is just starting.

    The press must have decided to cover Toyota's problems the way they cover the troubles of other auto companies.

    Read the article linked below - it was published this week. A year ago you would have been more likely to see an ivory billed woodpecker than a newspaper criticizing Toyota so bluntly.

    http://www.sltrib.com/ci_4178250?source=rss
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    scott,

    Thanx for the link pal. It's about time somebody plays fair in the negative news game. :)

    Rocky
  • scott1256scott1256 Posts: 531
    success means the media will now target it as an 'evil corporate monster' as with Microsoft, Wal Mart, GM, IBM etc.

    Rather than having some lionized and some demonized, it would be nice to see more even media treatment of all.

    By the way: I notice more positive press about GM these days than for many, many years. It seems the media is abandoning their 'everything about GM is evil' template, at least for the moment.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Well maybe the press is feeling sorry for GM, and years of abuse which alot of the times was over the top. I do think Rick Wagoner, does show some compassion and the job losses hit's at home in the long run. Perhaps people will someday wish again good things for their neighbors, instead of being hateful. :sick:

    Rocky
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    is reporting (Article is available on line, but you have to be a paid subscriber to read it, sorry.) that Toyota is considering consolidating its product line in response to increased recalls.

    I think this is one more example of something I and some others here and elsewhere have argued elsewhere: Designing and manufacturing mass market automobiles is not easy. The only way to do it well is to limit wherever possible the number of things that can go wrong.

    GM, Ford and to a lessor extend Chrysler pre-merger, used to approach the market with a shot gun. Any possible product niche was exploited, lest someone else get market share. The gremlin in this was always going to be quality.

    Honda and Toyota rose to prominence in the US on a business plan that had them using two (Honda) and three (Toyota) basic platforms respectively. It worked. Keeping things simple meant keeping them good.

    Toy lately got the market share bug big time. It started using the tried and true GM and Ford method: make something every possible piece of the market could ever want. The result is quality glitches.

    I think as consumers we have to ask ourselves: do we want something uniquely designed for our particular lifestyle, or do we want to find a way to make a tried and true design work.

    Honda never went away from the limited platform model. GM is slowly adopting the model. Ford may be doing so as well. I think Toy has decided it does not want to leave either.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,669
    It's a toughie, isn't it? We do want the reliability, we don't want recalls, but if every manufacturer achieves those goals by maximizing component and platform sharing among its own models, the result is a bland market with little variety.

    Look at Toyota, even with all the recalls: it makes like 19 models that all drive exactly like a Camry (Scions excepted), even the trucks. This was intentional on their part, of course, but it doesn't lend much "pizzazz" to their line-up. Ford is rapidly going to the same model - the next five years will see the culmination of that process - and in doing so I think it will achieve the same goal, except for the Mustang. Ick.

    Funny to me is that the Scions are the least recalled of the Toyota models, and yet they are the exceptions to the "sameness" rule. Of course, their volume is also lower, which makes QC a little easier to rein in.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    Funny to me is that the Scions are the least recalled of the Toyota models, and yet they are the exceptions to the "sameness" rule. Of course, their volume is also lower, which makes QC a little easier to rein in.

    The Scions are tried and true as well though, aren't they? I understand Toyota has been using the platforms for a number of years before putting the cool little hatches and coupe on top.

    But yeah, the choice is somewhat stark. GM, Ford (and a host of other makes long since dead) used to change models almost every other year. And they would make all sorts of really different creatures. But that was a culture where new car buyers would happily tell you they expect to sell before the thing reaches 50k miles.

    If you want to go beyond to overarching socio-economic factors, compare a detailed map from the mid-1960s with one from today. One reason people did not worry about quality and reliability so much was they did not have to travel anywhere near as much as today.
  • jetjockgjetjockg Posts: 80
    The reason the American public doesn't know about the poor quality of Toyota cars is because very few people know about it. TV,radio and local newspapers are reluctant to say bad things about a company that pays them ALOT of money for advertising. We have to call our local media and tell them whats going on. Spread the word! What have J D Powers and Consumer Reports been doing the past two years giving glowing reports about Toyota???
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    What on earf are you talking about ? Toyota makes great cars, and have for years, and tey will keep it up....People who own or have owned Toyota cars know thhis to be true.
  • jetjockgjetjockg Posts: 80
    Go to http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f0c6927/816 The truth is finally out. There is an ever expanding list of articles explaining how Toyota has increased it's recall rate 43 fold. Thats the 2002 rate times 43! This occurred mostly because they fired most of their experienced engineers. At the above address you will find the editorials and comments by Toyota owners
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,663
    Toyota fired most of their experienced engineers?

    Why would they do that-to save money? Why does Toyota need to save money, either? I mean, how much money did they make last year? 10 billion dollars, or numbers somewhat in that ballpark?

    Come on, Toyota. I hope they haven't fired their most experienced engineers or Toyota is going to get worse before they get better. Pay some close attention to this, it might just get hairy for everyone's favorite.

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    No, Toyota didn't fire their most experienced engineers. You won't find a shred of evidence in that thread, because it's simply not true.

    These recalls are being blown out of proportion too by those who'd like to bring Toyota down.

    For example, the recall concerning stalling of Echo and Prius cars amounts to a relatively small number of 35,000 or so in the US, and these are 2001 and early 2002 models.

    The FJ Cruiser recall was limited to only 9000 units. And the problem was their tires were damaged by improper installation onto the wheels. I've used a tire mounting machine, and I know it's easy to damage the bead area of the tire if you're not concentrating on the job.

    Finally, let's take my personal examples: I've had a total of 3 Camrys in the last 9 years (2 currently). The '97 (which I sold in '04) was recalled ONCE, for a possible loose steering wheel. The '04 was also recalled ONCE, for possible improperly installed (twisted) side curtain airbags. Turns out on this one, my particular car was okay once the trim panels were removed to inspect the airbags.

    That's it!
  • jetjockgjetjockg Posts: 80
    The attached article describes what I said about the lack of qualified engineers.I am not trying to bring down Toyota. They are doing it themselves by not talking to their customers and not publishing their actual recall statistics.
    http://www.sltrib.com/ci_4178250?source=rss
  • andy82471andy82471 Posts: 120
    To me recalls don't matter much as long as the company is proactive and taking care of their customers well, which FORD and GM hasn't done well in the past. As long as a car won't leave me stranded on the middle of the road I am satisfied; and Toyota is more likely to not get you stranded than the domestics.
  • kronykrony Posts: 110
    I do agree with andy82471 in the sense that the true measure of any manufacturer is how they take care of customers when problems occur. In some senses Toyota could use this to build on their quality perception is they take care of their customers.

    One can look at GM, Ford and Chrysler quality of the 70's and 80's and can see how Toyota, Honda and the others picked up customers fed up with buying sub-par quality. Today the Big 3 quality is inline with the industry but their quality perception still is a drag.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,442
    i very rarely see any car stranded on the side of the road.
    one thing that bothers me is that for example, when honda has a transmission issue they repair and guarantee for a 100k. to me that is a cop out. their supposed reputation is to last for multiple 100k's.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,669
    So when Chrysler and Jeep owners in the 90s had transmission failures time and time again between 50 and 100K or even earlier, Chrysler shouldn't have had to do anything about this problem for their customers because their rep was NOT that they lasted for multiple 100Ks?

    Ditto Ford owners with the engines with problematic gaskets, and on and on?

    Just wondering how far to extend that line of thinking. Indeed, Toyota and Hondas have the rep of lasting well beyond 150K miles in many cases, and I have experienced that repeatedly, but they have NEVER warranted their vehicles to match that rep. I don't think a manufacturer should be called upon to warrant ther vehicles to the extent of their "rep". It's a rather nebulous concept.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,669
    If they removed your post, they will have sent you an e-mail to let you know. And that's usually because you broke one of the TownHall rules.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

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