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Toyota on the mend?



  • jimbresjimbres Posts: 2,025
    or other aesthetic maintenance facility

    "aesthetic maintenance facility" - nice turn of phrase. Must remember it.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    fancy Camry ES

    You really hate the ES, eh? LOL

    Keep in mind the ES is built in Japan, and measured quality is higher than the Camry. It also gets a unique engine, interior, exterior, etc.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Compared to an ES, a standard E is like an AMG car

    That's not really fair - Lexus doesn't try to make the ES sporty. It's less sporty than their own Camry, intentionally.

    Some people want a big, comfy sofa.

    I agree more with criticisms against the IS and GS because those models ARE supposed to be sporty. They need better suspension tuning and more manual transmissions. Let's see how Lexus updates those.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    In 20 years people won't be looking back at it as a piece of great design. It's a knock-off with an uglier front

    I think we'll look back and say this Sonata was a turning point for Hyundai.

    "Great" design? That's a mighty high standard to apply to a mainstream family sedan.

    Still, the Sonata will do for Hyundai what the original Taurus did for Ford. Interesting enough to draw attention, and a successful design as well.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    At least with an ML you can go off road

    The original ML was body-on-frame, but isn't the new one softer, and now unibody? They softened it up to compete with ... guess who? The segment leader you hate.

    If you want an off road truck on that platform go for the new Grand Cherokee. Just be willing to accept that the stability control is as bad as the Lexus GX' used to be.

    You were critical of the Lexus GX, now the question is, would you give the Jeep a free pass for the same problem?
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,071
    Go all the way and get a Unimog!

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Lexus has nailed the target market for that car - they don't care about roadability, they want smooth, supple, and showy, and the RX nails it. It's like a designer handbag on wheels.

    That formula worked, can we blame them? Lexus has maintained the #1 spot for how many years now? If it ain't broke....

    Also, doesn't M-B sponsor fashion week? They'd kill to steal all those designer handbag customers away from Lexus. An ML was never an enthusiast car anyway. No wonder the newer ML is less trucky and a lot more Lexus-like.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    You really hate the ES, eh? LOL

    Yes, from day one. It replaced the best car Toyota ever built. The Cressida. It was the beginning of the end for a decent car company. The Camry may sell in the millions to those that do not know any better. It is still sub par to the Cressida. The dumbing down of the car market. My ex wife had a Cressida she loved. When she wrecked it the insurance company would not pay the price to get another one so she ended up with a Camry she did not like. I looked for a replacement the whole time we were married and no one wanted to sell their Cressida.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    OK, that explains it.

    Cressida sales peaked in 1985 at about 45k sales. That's actually not bad volume, but the last generation only peaked at about half that rate, 24k sales in 1989.

    The Lexus ES is on pace to do about 47k sales this year, and has sold consistently well.

    If anything, the Lexus GS should perhaps be seen as the spritual successor to the Cressida, though, being RWD.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,917
    GS is also expensive, anonymous, doesn't lead in virtually any category, and they sell dozens a year.

    Cressida could even be had with a 5-speed!
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,917
    But really,could a car be more bland? If Lexus really wants to compete with the big boys in terms of anything related to an active image, that car will do nothing but hinder.

    I'm not holding my breath on those updates. I don't know if I've ever even seen a current IS with a manual.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,917
    I'm not the one saying it sells on styling merits, so yes I agree, calling it even good design is a mighty rich claim.

    Sonata will sell because it offers value. Undercuts the bland competition, has laudable engine technology. I see no praise of that design from any credible industry source. It's a poor man's CLS. If I want bad visibility and low rear headroom, I'll save my money and buy the real deal.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,917
    Just because it sells doesn't mean it's good. It's another product that gives the brand a certain image.

    #1 spot in the US, don't forget that.

    I don't see MB making a vehicle exclusively for spoiled women. I'd take a soft new ML on an unpaved road before I'd even think about it in an RX.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,917
    I'd like to be able to go highway speeds...but for the farm...there's nothing cooler than a Unimog :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The GS needs an identity, no argument there. It seemed like the 2nd gen actually was closer than the first or the current car.

    You can get an IS250 with a manual, but there's not enough engine there.

    Lexus should make the non-DI 2GR engine the base engine, and then the current 2GR-FSE the upgrade engine, and ditch the tiny 2.5l V6 altogether.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    If I want bad visibility and low rear headroom

    Headroom is supposed to be surprisingly good.

    The Mazda6' is not, though. I had to duck to avoid bumping my head.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I don't see MB making a vehicle exclusively for spoiled women

    Stereotype much? Jeez.

    You must not be married.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,917
    The officially imported G-wagen is a poser car, made for those with too much money and a lack of common sense. Europe has long received much cooler and more sensible variants.

    I dodge the endless poorly aligned manhole covers and ruts around here too, my car is too stiff for that...keeps me alert, too. The "big mouth bass" Audi look is here to stay,,,so you might not have to worry about that purchase for a long time.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,917
    Where there's smoke there's fire...I'm sure I'm wrong as an absolute, but as a majority, not from what I can see.

    And yeah, I have problems, but that aint one of em.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,917
    GS barely exists - previous version seemed a lot more popular, and I want to say at one time the 6 could be had with a manual. Never cared for its looks, but it seemed a little more on target.

    You can get a Camry manual too, but good luck finding one.

    Engine technology is worth something in my book...maybe the better engine should be standard? Hyundai is really working their butts off in that arena...Toyota should too.

    Sonata must have low rear seats or an illusion that makes it look lower...which would kill visibility. Still, I don't care for it. I don't see a lot of the new 6 on the road around here...and I do see rentals too.
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