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## Comments

519I'd be driving a 2003 Altima right now, if 4 years ago I could have found a 2.5S, anywhere, with ABS.

It's even worse with VSC. Only on the 3.5's. Dang.

3,855Also the Civic is in a lighter weight class, so frontal scores may not be comparable. There is a 450 pound difference in the weight of tested cars.

18,8513,855I wish they would add a frontal test that would be comparable across all cars. Maybe smash the thing they use for the side test into the front of the cars, for example.

18,8513,85518,8513,855Then the weight of the vehicle plays a role, so the results couldn't be compared across weight classes--same as today.I don't think that is true. You would be simulating a collision between the vehicle being tested and a second standard vehicle. This would make for a tougher test of small cars.

18,851Maybe there is a discussion on the science of crash tests where we can continue this if you want to, so we can get back to the 2007 Sentra.

3,855There is a discussion called: IIHS Picks Safest Vehicles

Can the host maybe move this there, so we can continue?

10,42118,851If you had a choice of being hit by the 10 pound box or the 4000 pound box, which would you choose?

These are extreme examples of course, but do you see that the weight of the car does factor into the test if the car is moving?

3,855If a "good" rated civic has a head-on crash with lower rated, but 1000 pound haevier car (eg Impala)...which will prove to be safer. I'm pretty sure it would be the Impala. Now what if the weight difference is only 500 pounds? Is an "acceptable" Fusion safer (based on frontal crash test results) than a "good" civic? I'd guess probably...but it is only a guess.

In a two vehicle accident the weight of both vehicles is a factor, because weight (actually mass ) is a factor in energy and momentum. So if a test has moving standard simulated vehicle crashing into a moving test vehicle, yes the weight of the test vehicle would be a factor...but this is just as it is in the real world.

IIHS managed to come up with a moving sled for side impacts, not sure why something similar would not be done frontal. Design something mimicing the front end of 3000 or 3500 pound car (and/or truck/suv) and crash it into the front end of a moving test vehicle.

18,851...yes the weight of the test vehicle would be a factor...but this is just as it is in the real world.OK, then we are in agreement I think. If the IIHS were to implement a frontal test as you have suggested, where a moving car hits a moving barrier, then the tests could

notbe compared across weight classes. That was the original question we were discussing. The question was not whether the IIHS could design such a test and if it would be useful, but just whether the results could be compared across weight classes.3,855If they smashed a 3000 pound device into a Civic, the results would simulate what would happen in the real world if the civic were hit by a 3000 pound vehicle.

If they smashed the same 3000 pound device into an Impala, the results would be indicative of what would happen in the real world if the impala were hit by a 3000 pound vehicle.

Comparing them would tell you how one would do relative to other in a real world frontal collision with the same 3000 pound vehicle.

18,851We weren't talking about smashing a device into a car. I thought you had proposed taking a moving device and smashing it into a

movingcar.I'm done on this topic.

3,855I thought you had proposed taking a moving device and smashing it into a moving car.Yes, and this would mimic what would happen when a 3000 pound moving car smashes into the other moving (tested) car in the real world. Civics do not collide only with other Civics and Impalas with other Impalas in the real world.

What is wrong with the idea of a standardized test that mimics a 2 vehicle accident? The Civic owner is just as likely to collide with a 3000 pound vehicle as is the Impala owner.

491Consider a head-on collision between a specific 4000-lb car and a specific 2000-lb car. The following different scenarios result in the same damage to the each of the cars, and in each case the crash

accelerationswill be twice as much to the smaller car.1. 4000-lb car is stationary and is hit head-on by the 2000-lb car travelling at 40 mph

2. 2000-lb car is stationary and is hit head-on by the 2000-lb car travelling 40 mph

3. 4000-lb car travelling 20 mph and 2000-lb car travelling 20 mph collide head on.

The way to think of a vehicle collision, to a good first approximation, is to think of them as being out in space where there is no local frame of reference for speed.

4912. 2000-lb car is stationary and is hit head-on by the

4000-lb car travelling 40 mph.Addition: Remember that a 4000-lb car will in general be larger (and hence have a larger crush zone) and will in general be stronger (stiffer) than the 2000-lb car. This will reduce the likelihood of intrustions into the passenger space of the larger car.

The two vehicle will exert equal but opposite collision

forceson each other, but since F = ma the resulting accelerations (or changes in velocity) caused by the crash will be different and will be inversely proportional to the masses. This means that unrestrained occupants of the 2000-lb car will experience twice the force if they contact the inside of their own car than unrestrained occupants of the larger car. Unless an occupant is wholly or partially ejected from their car what injures them is the collision of their body with the inside of their own car.13,993Ford, GM fall off list as insurance industry group toughens criteria to promote improvements.http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061121/AUTO01/611210365/- 1148/AUTO01

Rocky

P.S. It's all a buncha B.S. because some cars don't have ESC. :mad:

13,993U.S. makes shut out of '07 insurance industry honorshttp://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061121/BUSINESS01/611210389/10- 14/BUSINESS01

Rocky

13,993ARLINGTON, Va. — Thirteen cars and trucks from foreign manufacturers — including the Kia Sedona and Hyundai Entourage — won Top Safety Pick honors for 2007 models from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=117652

Rocky

3,85518,8513,85513,993Rocky

13,993Oh boy....oh boy....Ford, sure is taking "bold moves" in it's advertising. :surprise:

Rocky

117>> It's amazing not to see VW group receive the highest (safety) honors.Not surprising to me.

After all, it's really not safe to be driving around in a Volkswagen :lemon: having no brake-lights

or turn-signals after the "affordable German engineering" electrical system shorts out.

.

117Thanks in part to the IIHS, vehicle structural crash safety has greatly improved in recent years,

in contrast to the dismal results from a 40mph crash test of a Ford Tempo.

35,969Reminds me of the tests of the late 90s F-150 extra cab that folded up like a pop can.