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  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    I'm a little suprised GMs 2.0L Supercharged Ecotec made the list. Mazda's 2.3L turbo is far more impressive, as is GMs own supercharged Northstar in the STS-V. I can think of several more impressive powerplants out there. I'd like to know what criteria Wards uses to determine the list.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Northstar is the best engine in the world in my opinion. ;)
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Ward only tested 36 vehicles (out of hundreds?) to come up with their ten best.

    No Porsches, No AMG's, no Honda S2000, no M5...

    I suspect if I threw in my nominations to the test mix, there wouldn't be a single domestic engine in the top 10 list. Which would not be politically correct for Wards.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,641
    I suspect if I threw in my nominations to the test mix, there wouldn't be a single domestic engine in the top 10 list. Which would not be politically correct for Wards.

    I agree

    The Northstar v8 is far from the best engine available. Any v8 from Mercedes or BMW is superior in terms of power delivery. I'd even say Lexus and Infinity v8s are more impressive as well.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    The Northstar was based on the Corvette LT-4 Mercruiser.
    The LT-4 was from what I've read and gathered the best engine ever made. no gaskets period ! Carroll Shelby once said the GM Northstar was the best engineered engine ever made, and the proof is their to back his claim up. I know a few GM workers with over 500K on em' The caddy's seats are wore out, but it still runs. I will say a engine that isn't mentioned, that should be. Honda/Acura's 3.2 liter VTEC in the Acura TL. Man that's a fine engine, and isn't repected.

    Rocky
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,187
    It isn't respected?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,525
    I think Shelby meant that the Northstar was a great leap forward for American manufacturers and this was true. Ward's also thought a lot of the engine.

    It has its problems though, as fine as the engineering may be---for one thing they are essentially throw away engines and not rebuildable. This is not a comforting thought to Cadillac owners. It's not an engine that I would personally run to very high mileages because the only remedy for engine failure is a new engine from Cadillac.

    MODERATOR

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    With all do respect, thats not what he meant. He was quoted in Motor Trend as saying something to the fact that GM's Northstar was the best engineered engine made in the world and is why he wanted it for his Shelby series one.

    He used the 4.0 Aurora Northstar V-8 with a supercharger.
    He used alot of parts from Delphi to build his car. ;)

    Rocky

    P.S. I have never heard of them not being rebuildable.
    My fathers co-worker has over 500K on his 94' which has been rebuilt. He has replaced a few blowin head gaskets (common problem with early Northstars)
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I agree. What a beaut !!!!

    Rocky
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,525
    Cadillac does not recommend rebuilding the Northstar engine and doesn't have an engine exchange program for that reason. Most major engine rebuilders won't rebuild them either.

    Part of the reason is that you can't bore them out and also that Cadillac recommends disposing of the cylinder heads rather than re-working them if they warp.

    So there's not much to rebuild. But sure, you can do head gaskets and re-ring 'em if you don't need to bore.

    MODERATOR

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Ok. cool. Is the newer VVT Northstars the same way ?

    Rocky
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,525
    Dunno--lots of really good engines are very dicey to rebuild. It's not a "defect", it's just the way they are designed, for lighter weight and faster revving. You'll see more and more of this kind of thing as time goes on, too. This is also why, sadly, many fine old luxury cars in the future will be discarded rather than rebuilt.

    On the positive side of something good to say about engines like the Northstar, you can usually get a brand new crate engine for less than you can rebuild most foreign luxury V-8s. I know a Benz V-8 costs about $16,000 to rebuild properly, bottom up, no cutting corners.

    MODERATOR

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    GM should of got all of the Top 10 ;)

    1. 4.6 V-8 Northstar-"Carroll Shelby has called the best engine in the world" ;)

    2. 7.0 LS-7 V-8 out of the Z0-6

    3. 2.8 V-6 Turbo

    4. Ecotec 2.2

    5. 2.0 T/S 4-cylinder

    6. 3.6 "High Feature" and someday TT on my Velite :P

    7. 5.3 LS-4 V-8

    8. LS-2 V-8

    9. 6.2 V-8

    10. 6.6 Duramax Diesel :P

    Rocky

    P.S. #11 is the reliable 3800 V-6 that has powered lemko's vehicles and those gems will out live all of us. :P
  • critter1critter1 Posts: 104
    Get many miles on them! :)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,525
    Shelby must be getting old....the Northstar has had some serious problems...

    MODERATOR

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Yes it had some serious problems, but overall the Northstar, is one of the best and most reliable engines ever made and is why we still see GM using updated versions of it. ;)

    Rocky
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Yes it had some serious problems, but overall the Northstar, is one of the best and most reliable engines ever made and is why we still see GM using updated versions of it.

    Doesn't make sense Rocky, it can't be both!

    M
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,525
    Sometimes intellectual journalist think of "best" as an engine "on paper"--the specs, weight, performance, and even initial accomplishments upon introduction...

    but gearheads and mechanics tend to think of how it all turned out in the real world, so "best" means something a bit different.

    To me personally, I like to give the "best" title to engines that have proven reliable and extraordinarily sturdy over a long, long history and multi-use capabilities.

    Northstar has certainly been improved, so I'd go along with "much improved engine" award.

    But you mention that "best engine" award to some Cadillac owners and they'd tear your head off.

    MODERATOR

  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Okay, "most improved" is fair enough, however GM, is still doing pretty good with pushrod technology and since they have been able to improve so much in this area perhaps it isn't neccessary to switch away from what they know best ?

    I'm happy with the push rods, and you don't have to be SAE caertified to do simple work on them yourself. ;)

    Rocky
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Okay, "most improved" is fair enough, however GM, is still doing pretty good with pushrod technology...."

    Aren't you talking about the Northstar?

    What does it have to do with pushrods? :confuse:
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    I was talking about GM pushrod engines in general, not about the Northstar. ;)

    Rocky
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Northstar is the best engine in the world in my opinion.

    In the world, Gracie? It may have been in that lofty realm when it was brought out, Rocky, but it hasn't been improved much since then, and lots of engines have come out since that eclipse the Northstar's tech and performance. Plus, it has been plagued with head gasket failures, carbonization, and do you know where the starter is on that thing?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    In your whole list you don't have one engine that makes more than, say, 25 mpg around town in any current application. And that's the EcoTec, the rest make around 20 mpg or less. :sick:

    I vote for the little Toyota 1.5 - average or lower emissions in all its applications for the last 15 years, SUPERLATIVE fuel economy, despite its low cost it makes more than 70 hp/liter (something the Northstar doesn't do), and if you do the oil changes, the little bugger will go 250K miles without a hitch every time...

    Of course, that's just a personal fave, I doubt it is particularly technically innovative beyond incorporating variable valve technology at such a low cost, but the results are pretty good! :-)

    An engine that intrigues me, but one which I guess we won't see for a while around here, is the new VW 1.4 twincharger.

    edit....oh, hey these are the 2007 winners by the way:

    http://wardsauto.com/reports/2007/tenbest/

    The new 3.5 from both Toyota and Ford made the list this time, I doubt VW's twincharger was eligible, but the 2.0T from VW/Audi made the list along with the Mazda 2.3 turbo and Nissan's famed VQ 3.5. Nothing from GM or Honda made the list at all...

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,174
    The Toyota 3.5 deserves a manual gearbox. The engine is fantastic. It revs quickly, smoothly and will bump the redline if you get on it (At least that is what I found in the RAV4). Plus, I've read up to 27mpg in the RAV is achievable if you lay off the throttle. The Camry and ES will do even better than that.
    Great engine.

    Good to see Chrysler and Ford on the list. The little Mazda mill as well. The rest were not surprising at all...
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,187
    I believe Honda deserves to be on the list. Maybe for '08, at least with the variable displacement 3.5 V6.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    The ULTRA "High Feature" V8 from GM, will be the best engine ever made. ;)

    -Rocky
  • Good thing you got that wink there cause I seriously doubt it.

    Are they going back to pushrods for it?
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Are they going back to pushrods for it?

    ROTF !!!! You can't be serious. :P

    -Rocky
  • Well GM does seem to be the company of the pushrod, by the pushrod, for the pushrod.

    GM Engineers: You will take our pushrods from us when you pry them out of our cold, dead fingers.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Actually I think that would be the GM ACCOUNTING department with that motto. Pushrods are nice and low-cost, low-cost, low-cost.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

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