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Honda Accord (1994-1997) Maintenance and Repair

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  • ali32ali32 Posts: 1
    My car acted weirdly last day. It was heating up as I was running it. I parked it aside, waited for 10-15 mn till it cooled down and filled the radiator with water while engine was running. I started driving again as I am delivery driver for Dominoz so I had to drove all day and same thing happened again but this time there was a whistling sound coming from the reserve plastic water bottle next to radiator as the hot air was trying to escape and there was no fluid in the radiator down to bottom. My speedometer stopped working and ignition was gone for few minutes. The car was running in jerk and there were erratic moments. There is a clicking sound coming from the fan (not working but when I would turn A/C it would start working). It all happened in one day. I never had any problem in last 4-5 months except for alignment. I did flush my radiator Today and filled it with water. It didn't heat up but there were erratic moments (the pick/acceleration of the car was gone/dead ) while driving and fan was not working. Temperature gauge, rpm needle is still working but odometer is not.
    Any suggestions plz ?
  • jimdempsterjimdempster Posts: 34
    edited April 2012
    Heating issues are really serious, as I'm sure you know. IF the engine gets overheated, the piston rings WILL become annealed (soft) and will no longer seal against oil, so you will start burning oil. The only solution is to replace the piston rings, which means a complete engine rebuild - don't let this happen to you by running the engine hot.

    The whistling sound you heard may indicate that the water level inside the radiator/engine dropped enough to allow steam to form (like a steam kettle). When the pressure rises above the pressure setting of the radiator cap, steam is ejected (making quite a mess). This can be caused by two things: 1) the coolant level leaks below that needed to cool the engine, or 2) the engine is severly overheated and the coolant is ejected through the coolant overflow tank.

    I thinking #1 is more likely: you lost coolant, so you had 1/2 water, 1/2 steam pocket. The temperature gauge sensor needs to be immersed to read the coolant temperature accurately. If there is only steam on the temperature gauge, it doesn't read the temperature right.

    You are at risk of blowing the engine, so this needs to be fixed before you drive the car anymore - no more delivery until this is fixed (or you will have no car).

    First, putting water in the radiator is only a temporary solution - you should always mix in the correct proportion of coolant - the coolant has anti-corrosive additives. Water alone will rust the engine in short order and cause additional overheating - get this fixed right away.

    Second, only put in the right coolant: the old days of using one 'green' colored coolant are over. You need to use a Honda approved coolant (it will say so on the side of the bottle). It varies by year, so you must ASK to make sure you are using the right coolant. For example, using the wrong cooland in a GM vehicle will destroy the engine by clogging - be careful.

    Third, always use distilled water: if you don't (or use hose water), you will get hard water deposits (whitish deposits) on the inside of the radiator - just like you get with a tea kettle or a steam iron. IT WILL plug up your radiator and your car will over heat (maybe that's what has already happened). There are services that will 'boil out' the radiator (at a radiator shop), but they generally won't boil out the engine (you should ask). The only way to boil out both is to use a Prestone Part A/Part B cleaner (it is NOT a flush, it is an acid cleaner with neutralizer). You can flush with hose water, but then you must completely drain the engine of the rinse water. Honda engines have a hidden drain plug on the back of the engine for this purpose. "Draining the coolant" at the radiator only removes about 1/2 of the coolant - you must remove the hidden bolt to get the rest.

    The problem: you must get to it from under the car, and it is frequently VERY difficult to remove (I used a 3/4 breaker bar, both feet, and 6-POINT socket, or you will strip the bolt). If you can't get the bolt out, you may be able to rinse the radiator will many gallons of distilled water (they are under $1/gal) if needed, and then put in pure coolant (resulting in about 50/50 distilled water remaining in the engine and pure coolant).

    Fourth, this is the time to replace the thermostat and O-ring, and if you have a high mileage car, the temperature sensor (they do wear out eventually).

    Five, pressure test the system after replacing the coolant/thermostat/sensor. Kragen may have a coolant pressure tester you can borrow, or go to Harbor Freight Tools to obtain an inexpensive one. The tester needs to be pumped up to 12 psi or so - the pressure should hold for several hours. Inspect the car for leaking hoses, radiator, engine gaskets, etc. This is probably how you lost coolant to begin with. Check the oil too: if you see a chocolate-colored liquid inside the oil, you have a broken head gasket.

    I would had said you had a blown head gasket, but apparently the car runs at normal temperature when the radiator is full of coolant - that's good.

    The ignition system can be clogged with radiator coolant when the steam was coming out of the overflow tank - dry out the distributor and ignition coil wires. Look for the speed sensor - if it is wet with coolant, it could cause the speedometer to fail temporarily. Same with the fan relay - the fan is triggered by the temperature sensor; it is a good idea to replace and make sure the electrical connections are clean. Just make sure everything is dry, and remove any coolant that might have been sprayed inside the engine compartment (hosing the engine compartment down might be good too, because coolant has a tendency to remove paint if left on too long).

    If you still have problems after cleaning and drying the engine compartment & sensors, then you might have two problems: a) coolant system, and b) electrical system (fan, fuel injector system).

    Don't ignore this - it will get worse.
  • jennifer_rjennifer_r Posts: 3
    edited April 2012
    Bought my car in January, Went for inspection in March and failed Emissions bad. Changed CAT and O2 sensor and check engine light went out. About 2 weeks later the car started acting up. It hesitates when accelerating from a stop, sometimes backfires but not loud, just pops. Just seems like loss of power when hitting the gas. The RPM's seem to hesitate when hitting 3000 at about 35-40 MPH. Idles fine, doesn't overheat, hasn't stalled out or flipped off, haven't had any problems turning the car over, maybe twice since I bought it but turned over both times on second try and check engine light is off. Also put in new spark plugs and wires a few days ago, as well as changed fuel filter. Which by the way, it looked as though it was never changed. Thought maybe the fuel injectors were clogged so put cleaner in the gas 2 days ago. I'm at a loss and don't know what it could be. Also checked out the distributor cap (plastic piece) no corrosion at all. However looking while looking for the screws to unscrew the cap underneath there was built up that was yellow and brown. Don't know if that's anything but the inside of the cap itself wasn't cracked or corroded. Checked the fuse box in the car and both boxes under the hood on passenger side and they were all good. I don't know much about cars any ideas?
  • After changing the CAT and O2 sensor, I went back to get it reinspected and it passed in March. Sorry I forgot to put that in.
  • omarromarr Posts: 88
    My first thought is that the symptoms are fuel related.

    Check the fuel pressure 30 to 37 psi

    Service Manual Download PDF

    http://hondatech.info/downloads/Auto/Manuals/Accord/

    Honda 94 Accord Coupe Shop Manual CD7_CD9
    Procedure page11-79
  • Thanks I'll have to check it out
  • shopdog97shopdog97 Posts: 142
    I help a friend with a '94 Accord last June with this same issue. We went out on the highway and the Cruise control held perfectly but the speedometer was dead. He found that "Combination Gauge" at a local junkyard and in no time at all, I had it replaced.
  • shopdog97shopdog97 Posts: 142
    Last fall, I helped my friend with the '94 Accord replace his front brakes. He had metal on metal on the passenger side, so there was a rotor issue as well but he chose to just replace the pads and said that he'd replace the rotors later. He called me the other night and asked if I would help do this now. I noticed that when we pulled the calipers off(2 piece), there are about 5 or 6 bolts in a ring around the center of the rotor. Is this what holds the rotor on? I'm used to rotors coming off as soon as the caliper comes off.

    Also, my friend says that while this car runs good, the engine idles high right after he starts up and if he tried to drive right away, it is kind of sluggish. I'm wondering if there may be a emissions hose loose or worn. I told him I'd clean the throttle body out when I do the rotors to see if this might help. The car does have a lot of miles on it, I know the transmission was replaced some months ago with a used one, but I think he said the motor is original. Other than these few things, the car runs well and gets terrific gas mileage. Let me know about the rotor retainer and what you think the high idle on startup might be. Thanks and have a great day!
  • shopdog97shopdog97 Posts: 142
    Thanks so much, Omarr, for this heads up with these brakes. WHY in God's name would they have to design something like this is beyond me other than most folks won't have access to the special tools needed and take the car in for the $500 brake job! And on a car like my friend Mario's, it'd make sense to replace the wheel bearings due to the high mileage(180K+). I may have to tell him that he's gonna have to take it elsewhere because I really don't have access to a press, although I do have a friend who has one in his small machine shop about a block away from me. This would mean that Mario is going to need to let me bring the car here to my home and commit to not just replacing the rotors, but the bearings as well. I'll get prices for those items sometime today.

    It is good that there is a place like this where we can come and ask these really important questions. So many of us need to do as many of these repairs ourselves as there is no other option. Thanks again, Omarr, and may God Bless!!
  • rrasmus1rrasmus1 Posts: 1
    Does anyone know if "auburn63" is still out there? I would like to thank this person for his/her solution on what I thought was torgue converter shudder. I tried the suggestion given and the engine smoothed out like the problem was not there. I found out all 4 ports were clogged. Now they are all cleaned and the engine is doing well. It has 237k miles and doesn't burn a drop of oil. Thanks again to "auburn63".
  • omarromarr Posts: 88
    edited April 2012
    I would not have a problem with not changing the bearings if you do not abuse them (beat on them) when removing the rotor.

    The bearings are probably still okay. they are double row thrust bearings and the bearings will separate when you try to press them off. If you were normally changing standard rotors, you would not change the bearings.Your preference only.
  • jimdempsterjimdempster Posts: 34
    edited April 2012
    Most people don't have access to a press, however there is another way with these Accord wheel bearings.

    The wheel bearings have "ears" on them with threaded holes. This is how the bearing is mounted to the hub. You have to remove the bearing to remove the rotor.

    Go to a hardware store (Ace Hardware had the bolts I needed), and purchase some 10mm X 100mm (I think, check your bolt diameter), grade 8 bolts. They need to be about 100mm long to stick up enough. Thread these high-quality bolts into the bearing, and then in a cross-hatch pattern, use a small sledge hammer to "rock" the bearing out of its bore. My bearings were rusted in place, but if you are careful and patient you can get the bearings out in your driveway (no press is needed). Make sure to alternate side-to-side, up-and down to rotate the bearings out of their bore. Should take less than 5 minutes.

    It's mostly rust that is holding the bearing in the bore.

    When you reassemble, clean out the rust from the bearing bore; no press is required to reassemble. I put some grease in the bore to keep the rust level down. Torque the bolts down.

    These cartridge bearings are very reliable - you should be able to get 300k+miles out of them before re-greasing.
  • omarromarr Posts: 88
    I believe jimdempster is talking about removing the bearing housing assembly not the bearing and he is correct on the method for removing the bearing housing. This way you would not have to replace the actual bearing and it would be reused.
  • shopdog97shopdog97 Posts: 142
    Let me again thank all of you who offered help with this issue. I did in fact get to this job this morning on my friends '94 Accord. What an idiotic setup this is. I imagine that brake shops charge a premium for this service, wouldn't you say? Anyway, I was able to disassemble the knuckles from both sides but I couldn't separate it from the bearing. And unfortunately for me, I just read jimdempster's post NOW instead of earlier when his suggestion may have helped me. I went down to my local repair shop a few blocks from me where I go to have my car inspected and asked the mechanic if he could separate the assembly for me. He told me that he has a special tool that allows him to remove the hub flange WITHOUT having to remove the entire knuckle. He puts the car on his lift and removes the hub nut and screws something onto it, and removes the 4 flange bolts and presses it off and that's it. The knuckle and bearing stay put, and all he has to do it change the rotor. Nice, ain't it?

    In my case, all he needed to do was clamp the knuckle in a vise and select the appropriate size bearing and seal driver and remove the 4 bolts holding the bearing to the knuckle. Once that was out he just flipped the hub over and remove those 4 bolts and the rest was history. Off came the old rotors and on went the new, and I was out of there in less than 10 minutes. The bearings were fine so I just reused them, saving the car owner a few bucks. The best part was the mechanic wouldn't take any money for what he did for me, although I offered. That just made my day!

    Everything went back together fine and I expect to return the car to my friend tomorrow, although there are other issues to address here, like a fast idle when first started. It takes a while for the engine to come down to a normal idle. I say a while, but it's probable just a matter of less than 5 minutes. Now this car does have over 180K on it, but it does seem to run very well for an 18 year old car. But it is a HONDA! Thanks again, everyone, and may God Bless always!!
  • jimdempsterjimdempster Posts: 34
    edited April 2012
    Check your idle control valve. It controls the idle speed via the computer by throttling the air (the injectors control the fuel). It is as if you were manually pressing on the accelerator pedal to control the air flow (but the computer is doing it for you).

    If you are mechanically adept, you may be able to clean it/lubricate it and make sure the junk is gone and it operates smoothly, but don't dunk it in solvent because there is no protection for the inner workings. Because it is 180k mile car you might have to replace it: 80-90 bucks new, check around for aftermarket prices too. Avoid "Wells' brand. Or see if there is an air leak from the intake manifold - this can cause similar problem. Air leaks can also be causes by cracked or uninstalled vacuum hoses and be a factor in fast idles.
  • nickcazares01nickcazares01 Posts: 3
    edited April 2012
    I'm starting to get frustrated and I'm not sure where to go at this point.
    1996 Honda Accord LX 5 Speed
    JDM F22B SOHC Non-Vtech 35,000 Miles. Used only Block and head. Everything else was transferred from previous F22B2 Engine.
    After swap car ran perfect with no Check Engine Lights on. Recently after hitting 1,000 miles on the swapped Engine the light came on. I took it back right away to the mechanic and he check the code and said it was oxygen sensor bank 2 and that I would be fine driving until I replaced that. The very next day The engine died while driving. First the tach jumped up and down then it just died. I was traveling at about 45 mph. The engine will crank all day but will not turn over. I got the car towed home and the next day I started troubleshooting. First checked for fuel my removing the main line to the rail and cranked plenty of fuel was coming through. I ruled out the fuel pump and fuel filter. I next checked for spark and found the problem. No spark out of the wires or the coil. I removed the ignition coil and took it to AutoZone and had it checked. He said it was fine. I reinstalled the ignition coil. I checked the 7.5 ECU Fuse it was fine as well.. I then purchased a new main relay just in case and still wont turn over. I pulled off the valve cover cap and the timing belt is fine. Next I pulled out the DIZZY for inspection and there was oil inside and rotor looked bad. So I rebuilt the dizzy. I replaced the Ignition Control module ($49.99 AutoZone).
    I replaced the Dizzy shaft Inner Seal and and outter o Ring ($14.99 EBAY) I put the dizzy back together with new rotor (19.99 AutoZone) And new Cap (16.99 O'Ryelly) The only I didn't change is the TDC sensor inside the Dizzy because of Price. Available online only between $160.00-$230.00. (Price of new Dizzy) I installed my Dizzy last night. Still the Engine wont turn over. Whats Next?? Crank Sensor?? or perhaps when my mechanic installed new timing belts with with swap he left them too loose and it jumped timing?? Should I go ahead and buy a new ignition coil anyways just to be sure?? Will a bad TDC sensor stop the Engine from turning over? Somebody please help. I welcome all advice before I start spending more money.
    Thank You.
  • shopdog97shopdog97 Posts: 142
    Thanks again Jim for this info. I will look into the idle control valve. Could you give me a heads up on just where it is on this '94 Accord, 2.2L, F22B2 motor? Also, what's the deal with rrasmus1(above) about cleaning the EGR valve? Poster "auburn63" gave him this solution and he says it helped greatly after he cleaned out the 4 ports. I know this EGR is working because I worked manually when the car is running and it nearly stalled like it's supposed to. I assume that it is carbon deposits that form and block these ports.

    Yesterday I changed the valve cover gasket on this car as it seemed to be leaking. The gasket kit comes with those 4 gaskets that keep oil from accumulating in the spark plug holes. They were ALL shot! I had a job getting #3 and 4 plugs out because of all the oil down there. I wouldn't have thought there could be that much resistance, but there was. I cleaned and regapped the plugs and coated the threads with a dab of Anti-seize as I always do for plugs. I was also able to fix my friend's passenger side power window. This car had been hit on that side years ago and he said the window never worked right after that and he put a piece of tape on the driver's side button so nobody would use it. I found that just about every screw on the motor and track was loose and one was gone altogether. I replaced it and tightened everything up and lubed ANYTHING that moves, literally. All seems well now. Thanks again Jim for all your valuable info.
  • jimdempsterjimdempster Posts: 34
    edited April 2012
    I'll have to pull my manual to be sure (I have a '90 4 cyl).

    One thing that you can kind of rely on is that the air idle control (IAC) valve must introduce air during idle (the computer controls the fuel ratio). Therefore, the logical location is near the butterfly (throttle) valve. Typically the IAC is cylindrical because there is a stepper motor that extends or retracts the 'pintle' valve that actually controls the idle air flow. It will also need 3 to 4 wires to get the stepper motor to reverse directions.

    The computer controls the idle speed almost as if you were manually opening and closing the throttle yourself, even though the throttle butterfly valve is not being actuated. If the idle is slow to come back down, the IAC valve could be getting dirty (or there could be some other source of air bypassing the IAC, slowing it's response time). Of course, the IAC control valve is supposed to raise the idle when the engine is cold, and lower it when the car warms up - but if it is taking too long, it could be getting gunked up.

    The Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) valve stops the engine from producing too much NOx gas by diluting the air/fuel ratio with exhaust gas during normal driving, lowering the combustion temperature.

    The problem during idle is that if you introduce exhaust gases to the air/fuel flow during a time when the engine is barely turning over, you run the risk of a rough idle and stalling the engine. For this reason, the EGR valve is commanded to shut off (and not introduce exhaust gases) to promote a strong, reliable idle. The EGR valve may (or may not) be clogged with exhaust gas deposits (carbon) and not shut off adequately. If this is your situation, cleaning out the carbon deposits would enable the valve to shut off properly and promote a good idle.

    I checked my EGR, and it was clean - it just depends on the condition of the engine and whether the fuel/air ratio is rich or lean. The automatic tranmission Honda has a tendency to run rich relative to the manual transmission version in my experience. I have over 200k miles on my manual xmission Honda, and I can wipe my finger inside the exhaust pipe and get *zero* black deposits on my finger - not so with the my friend's Honda with the automatic. I also run synthetic oil, so the engine condition may be better - your mileage may vary.
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