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  • http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200502/01/200502012154131779900090509051.html

    says Toyota wanted to share technology with Hyundai(and visa-versa) yet Hyundai said no thanks!

    Now, before you all go crazy here.... I own a Sonata, and the 04 is Not as good(NVH and MPG -wise as our 99, but the 06 is better than the 04, but still not like the 99 was...the 99 was more like the XG350 back in the day)as our 99 GLS V6 was.

    Also, my next vehicle might be another Toyota(Scion) maybe GM (pontiac) or a Suzuki, even(just do not care for the "looks like honda-toyota-acura" sonata).

    Trying to be nice: if you have any negative comments(and there probably will be many),if you can back It Up , please do so, like I always do, with links from fairly reliable sites, not" johnny whacko's wonderful world of cars" or something of this nature.

    Facts, Not Friction.
    Take care/Not Offense.
    DAV
    83-94
  • andys120andys120 Loudon NHPosts: 16,709
    Says so right here

    If it's on the internet, it must be true! :P

    2000 BMW 528i, 2001 BMW 330CiC

  • well, let me see, TWO RELIABLE SOURCES. If edmunds said it, would you say the same thing?
    YOU PROVE THESE SOURCES WRONG,(WHICH YOU CAN'T) AND I'LL ADMIT YOU'RE RIGHT(WHICH YOU AREN'T)! :P

    In the old school days, it's called PUT UP or Shut-Up :P

    This news was also on autoextremeist a few months back, if anyone cares to go look for it, and a few others sites, like detnews.com/autoinsiders.

    Difference between me and most are i post facts, not garbage.
  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    They should. The Accent hybrid should be here by this time next year, and the Sonata hybrid not far behind that.
  • 1racefan1racefan Posts: 932
    Fear I think is a strong word. I think it is more of a situation of Toyota recognizing that Hyundai is significantly better than they were 10 years ago, and wants to keep an eye on them. Plus, there probably is a certain level of respect that Toyata has for Hyundai as well.

    Maybe Toyota is blowing smoke up Hyundai's butt about this "sharing information deal"??? Maybe they just want to get a glimpse as to how far along Hyundai's manufacturing actually is - not out of fear, but just as part of keeping tabs on their competitors???? Any good company knows to keep tabs on ALL of the players in their market. On the other hand, maybe Toyota is getting apprehensive??? I don't discredit that story at all, I just don't neccessarily take everything I read at face value - regardless of the source.

    Let's face it, Hyundai most likely isn't going to surpass Toyota tomorrow, next year, or within the next 5 years (especially without a reputable pickup truck in their lineup). However, 10 years from now and out is a whole different ball game. It will take at least another 5 years for us to get hard core information about the long term reliability of Hyundai's products (by then, the '01 & '02 Hyundais will be 10 years old, and high mileage - and I think many will say that around '01-'02 is when their cars got a lot better).
  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    The reality of the industry is, if you relax for just one second, you fall behind.

    I think Toyota knows they have to outdo themselves every year if they're going to keep growing. We've seen lots of automakers relax for a few years. They've all gotten into trouble, from Nissan going broke to Mercedes Benz getting overtaken by BMW. Almost always, it's been the loser's fault more than the winner's deserved prize.

    That said, Hyundais are more similar to Toyota than most other brands' cars (in feel and mission). So they stand the most to gain if Toyota slips up.
  • http://paultan.org/archives/2005/09/20/hyundai-rejects-toyota-offer/

    Paul tan is iffy, kind of breaks my "no whacky sites"?
    It does claim Hyundai PR spoke of this . Maybe Hyundai's PR is lying? LOL.

    Look, the deal is, it is your duty to prove this fact wrong. You, nor anybody else will prove "this is phoney", because it ain't!

    If I had known about this, I would looked, and saved, every news bit i could.
    detnews.com/autoinsiders/ is a pain to back log search. unless you know the exact date, for example. :mad:

    Whatever.
    People will believe whatever they want to believe.

    Me? I could care less any more.
    I just buy what I like, I just thought that with all the Hyundai/Kia bashers here, saying these cars= Yugos....
    and then reading Toyota wanted to share technology....something was amiss.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    Toyota is always keeping close tabs on its competitors, that is one of the reasons it has been so successful.

    While the U.S. market is important, Toyota is not worried about the U.S. The only folks that should be very worried about Hyundai/Kia are GM and Ford, for now. I am looking at a 10-year span with that remark.

    Beginning in 10 years, if the currently new Hyundais show they have gone the distance, and are also being built as well as Toyota, Toyota will need to step it up. Which I have no doubt it will.

    I think Toyota is worried a lot more about Hyundai on the GLOBAL stage. There Hyundai is making big inroads in the Asian markets (outside Japan) as well as increasing its presence in Europe, both places where Toyota isn't well represented and has only been able to ramp up sales slowly. The North American market is going to wane in importance a lot in the next 20 years, which is why Ford and GM are done dominating global auto sales. Toyota needs to get its global game on, especially in certain markets like those I have mentioned, a whole lot more than it has been. Hyundai is a firecracker when it comes to rapid expansion on the back of lower-priced production.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • on a search, i noticed that this subject had been covered in the first quarter of 2005, under the title "hyundai rejects toyota proposal". just an FYI, in case ya need to delete, or move, this info.
    Peace.
    DAV
    83-94

    PS: to all participants: i was not trying to be nasty(although it sounded as such, in some spots, on my replies,etc).
    I just get angry with flaming and bashing and attacking, and no one ever posts anything to back-up their rhetoric(they use rhetoric as facts, which to me, is akin to lying).
    Not cool. never was, never will be, to me, in my books.

    Am I perfect? LOL! I wish!
    So, if I mess up, and people find flaws, and can prove it via links, information other than opinion-only, I welcome it.
    Better to find out I was wrong, than go around spouting off incorrect facts. :D
  • ontopontop Posts: 279
    Exactly - fear ain't the word. But in my business I am always aware of what the other guy is doing and factor that into my business (if needed).

    Toyota got to be where they are for a great reason. And it won't suddenly abandon them. They're on their toes constantly.
  • I agree with you, sir.

    Overseas is where the action is right now(well, besides USA).
    I heard HyunKia combined maybe have between 4-5% of USA market( they should sell around 775,000-800,000 units this year in USA; Hyundai selling around 500,000, or a few less).

    Like I said, their cars aren't bad, but for the new prices they are asking....and what they have out, is above avg, but not excellent, yet(except maybe that Azera?).

    If they would make some of those concept cars, instead of watering them down.......

    Anyhow, U R correct.
  • the word "Fear" seems to get people's attn :D

    I used it to garner attn, and replies.

    it seems to B working? :D

    Yeah, maybe not fear, but, i think when China, Inc gets here, even HyunKia will "fear" losses of market share, eventually.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,801
    That is so right, Toyota would be wise to treat any car company as a threat just as any other car company should. Out doing yourself is not good enough, you have to out do everyone else. It looks like some interesting things are going on right now and it will be interesting to see who holds what cards 5 or 10 years from now.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 5,967
    If we get into "trying to PROVE something" mode here, we're in for trouble.

    If this is going to be a discussion, great. If this is going to be a "contest", it may not turn out so great.

    MODERATOR
    Need help navigating? pf_flyer@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    YEAH..

    RIGHT..
  • bottgersbottgers Posts: 2,027
    ...who wins out of all this. We do. The tougher the competition, the better the product.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Maybe they just want to get a glimpse as to how far along Hyundai's manufacturing actually is - not out of fear, but just as part of keeping tabs on their competitors???? Any good company knows to keep tabs on ALL of the players in their market.

    Whether others admit the competition or not, Hyundai is Toyota's main competitor in the world market. About 6 months ago there was an article quoting Jim Press I believe ( I'll search ) stating that it was Hyundai that Toyota was watching most closely.
    Why not GM? Obvious now.
    Honda? It's mainly a US automaker.
    DC? Too specialized on the high end. slipping in reliability.
    Nissan/Renault? Nissan,just back from the brink of extiction. Renault strong in Europe.

    Hyundai? Monster international company with financial strength and the expertise to develop high quality vehicles and components within its own keiretsu (sp) with a very favorable cost structure.

    I believe that you are correct about the 10 yr window. It will be a very different world then. The balance of economic power is moving to the China/India axis. Korea and Japan are perfectly situated to take advantage of the next boom.

    If Toyota wants to continue to grow as #1 in the world after next year they will have to take Hyundai into account at every step of the way.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "Now, before you all go crazy here.... I own a Sonata, and the 04 is Not as good(NVH and MPG -wise as our 99, but the 06 is better than the 04, but still not like the 99 was...the 99 was more like the XG350 back in the day)as our 99 GLS V6 was."

    "Also, my next vehicle might be another Toyota(Scion) maybe GM (pontiac) or a Suzuki, even(just do not care for the "looks like honda-toyota-acura" sonata)."

    I like the way the new Sonata looks in black but the interior I don;t like the plastic's on the bottom half portion below the steering wheel. They have the plastic's clored black or dark grey on the top half of the speedometer and below the steering wheel I think the plastics are covered in ebony color and the bottom half of the plastic's look cheap. Why does the radio have wood grain trim on on it? The 02-05 model had too much fake wood on the interior. To me they saved all the good interior plastics for their TG luxury car.

    Uh on the topic of Toyota fearing Hyundai I think its unbelieveable. Usually Toyota doesn't fear anybody besides Honda maybe a little bit. I think toyota might be worried about Hyundai because like Toyota Hyundai has been very aggressive in their business practices like Toyota always has been.
  • about the 2 tone plastics? been seeing that in a few other cars, and not just Hyundai.
    The reason is supposedly for a less-glare dash. saem for those "rough/bumpy" dashes, like on HHR, for an example...and it is dark= less sun glare, and some say the "smooth .shiney" plastic "looks cheap"?
    Whatever.

    Some cars are all grey or black, or tan, but there are some 2 tones out there.
    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=new+cars+with+2+tone+dashboards&spell=1

    Different reasons for them, besides design, i have been told.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,716
    Nothing to fear for at least another ten years I think, because as one improves, so does the other. A company that comes up from near death into a decent product line always seems like a rising star whereas the champion can't really make such dramatic leaps. Toyota is not a company you want to underestimate however.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,693
    had an article this week about how it is looking quite likely now that Toyota will pass GM for global production in 2006. Really, the one that should fear Hyundai is GM.

    To be successful in the global sales race up until now, you had to be two things:
    (1) very successful in the North American market; and

    (2) a solid presence in the South Asian and European markets. Not so much Japan, which is a small stagnant market, relatively speaking.

    (1) above is the reason VW Group is sliding downhill in the standings, losing more and more sales to newer companies, like Hyundai.

    (2) above is the problem for GM and to a lesser extent Ford - they are both way too dependent on North America.

    Toyota is doing pretty well on both counts, with its European presence a weak link in the chain, as well as expanding markets like China.

    Hyundai's weakest link is probably North America, as they are expanding rapidly in other markets. They are expanding rapidly in the U.S. too, it is just that they are well behind Toyota.

    And now priorities are going to shift, as the North American is going to wane in relative importance. It will still be important to maintain a strong presence here though, I think. I wonder if Hyundai/Kia will eventually sell as many vehicles here as Toyota. If that happens, I bet it will only be as a consequence of some crisis at either GM or Ford. Hyundai will be going head to head with GM and Ford any day now in a death match!

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • delta4delta4 Posts: 138
    harrychezt - thanks for the link and the very informative article. The link below ties further credence to the competivtive threat that Hyundai poses to Toyota and also sees declines in Honda's dominance. Written by Dan Lienert who writes for Forbes.

    The Big Trend
  • Good article.
    Glad you liked the article I posted. Someone mentioned this could turn out to be a bad thread, and someone else thought it was a flamer thread, but it isn't meant to be.
    That was why I posted this article, which kind of backs up what i was saying, and your's helped, too.

    The Big Trend article reflects Many other source's opinions in the industry.
    I do not know if Mitsubishi will fold,like it siad, but hook up with a Chinese company? Could perhaps work.

    DAV
  • delta4delta4 Posts: 138
    Actually I'm not surprised that skeptics still abound and may even wince at the thought that Hyunai is viewed as an up and coming competitive threat to Toyota's market share. This fact is made more credible though when the admission comes from the market leader itself, Toyota.

    This is a good thread and made even better when factual sources can be cited especially when it comes to providing others with valuable information on important developments in the automotive industry and Hyundai's resurgence and growth in the U.S. market.
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Posts: 804
    Let me throw this one into the mix:

    From USA Today Money section 12/20/05:

    "There's this global paranoia," says Michael Robinet, a CSM vice president. Toyota executives are especially worried about the South Koreans — which have the Hyundai and Kia brands in the USA — because of their fast growth.

    Here's a link to the full article about Toyota:

    Toyota Article

    Little snippets like the quote from the aformentioned article have been seen in many other articles and quotes from Toyota over the last year or so. All the better for the buying public in general.
  • yes, the buying public.
    We all benefit. Toyota saying they worry about HyunKia means people who may not have taken 'em into consideration now may? Also, I noticed Toyota has some sales recently, and Hyundai had 4K off Sonata(cash back, up to 4K, plus arguing, could save up to 5000+). Get an LX Sonata V6 for the price of a 4 cylinder Camry(w/o leather, etc).
    And the others gotta have sales, make better vehicles, etc.

    Hey, on that Toyota Article, noticed even Suzuki made some cash, about on par of Kia.
  • delta4delta4 Posts: 138
    It seems that Hyundai's strategy is to push price pressure on both Honda and Toyota from the perspective of offering increased content with lower MSRP, while providing parity on quality. This is a tried and true formula that we see at the retail level particularly when viewed at the macro level.

    For example, Walmart and Super Target stores now carry grocery items at a lower cost to the consumer and their strategy has begun to erode profits and market share of the established supermarket retailers.

    The significance here is that one can shop not just for personal, household and electronic items but groceries as well, all under one roof. The consumer wins because they now have a wider selection, more choices comparable to what they're used to but at a lower cost.

    This example circles back to what the Hyundai strategy is based on and why Toyota and Honda are both worried about holding on to future market share and profits.

    By-the-way I wanted to mention that I picked up the original thread you started through Hyundai News Topix.net website.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    .... I don't think Yota or Honda are worried about Hyun/Kia ..l.o.l... but I do know they are watching any manufacturer that's in the market place showing any growth ...

    As far as a "strategy"(?) ... anytime you put a vehicle in the market place for $2,000/$4,000 less then the competitors you're going to get buyers for one reason and one reason only - payments ..... it's not the difference in price, it's the difference in payments - that's what sells cars - at first ...

    You have to remember, this is Hyun/Kia's 3rd swing at the bat in 15 short years and I wouldn't call 2 bankruptcies in 10 years as any feat of accomplishment for Kia .... but then again, Korea's government works on a totally different program than most and washing the slate perfectly clean on 2 different occasions is pretty nifty work, "if" you can get it ..l.o.l.....

    Right now Hyun/Kia is "buying" into as much as the market as possible ... Hyundai Finance is buying anyone with a pulse (and some that don't) .. 20%+ of their vehicles are in the rental car business, and even with all of this good press, they still have the largest MBB/NW (Manufacturers Buy-back, No Warranty) volume in the industry, they clog-up the auctions from Boston to San Bernadino and on the whole, their reliability factor is still faaaar south of average and their resale is less than that .... but like Dan Rather, it just takes a good Press Man to make it all go away ........



    Terry ;)
  • hey, heard that it is/was no more than 15% for total sales of Hyundai's to fleet rentals, back when mr O'Neill was in charge just a few short years ago?

    Anyhow, Hyundai's does not seem to need that 20+%(????) who had buy backs"...see this link below:
    Retention:
    Hyundai is 5th place, only 1% behind Chevy, and not too far from Toyota, Honda.

    http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005249

    Like I said 10,000 times before, I am not a Hyundai-only type(or Honda, or Scion, or anything else, since in 30 years, I have seen too many people get burned, maybe not many, on at least one model car from one maker, including myself, even from the likes of Nissan). So this is not a cheer leading deal for Hyundai. Just amazed ,though, at how they are doing, versus , say , Isuzu, Mitsubishi, and a few others.

    As for buy backs, they had better not have as many as you stated, at least in a few years, when they unleash their Hybrid cars(see bottom of page).
    http://worldwide.hyundai-motor.com/common/html/about/news_event/press_read_2005_- - 08.html

    Or better not mess this up:
    http://www.allpar.com/mopar/world-engine.html
    GEMA : Using Hyundai blocks, and each company tweaks the intake ,etc...
    Joint venture in Dundee, MI.
    Hope that Caliber/Compass don't need all of those "buy backs", or Mistu, or Hyundai.
    :confuse:
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