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Honda Civic vs Mazda3

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  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    I'm just saying about the A/C in the 3 everybody's hearing complaints but CR rates the 3 good in the A/C department. I;m just trying to understand how CR could rate the 3 good in the A/C department but everybody saying how bad the A/C in the 3 is.
  • I can only relay what I've read here and at other forums - and that is that the AC problem seems to have gone away with the 06 model. Not sure what they did though - diffuser seems to have worked for others, if it hasn't for you. Maybe that's not enough people needing to use A/C yet (introduced in September), so I guess it's really wait and see
  • warnerwarner Posts: 196
    TSB- 100127 For Mazda 3 Weak Air Conditioner:

    TSB Step1: Gather all Mazda 3 documentation: license, insurance, loan, annualk tests, etc.

    TSB step2: Go to nearest CARMAX dealer, get estimate and sell Mazda 3.

    TSB step3: Go to Honda dealer of choice and purchase Civic

    TSB Expected Results: Dramatically improved air conditioning.

    TSB Temporary/Permanent Resolution: Permanent, no expected problem return,


    You're KILLING me, Midnightcowboy! Hehehe...

    Warner
  • z71billz71bill Posts: 2,000
    But - to finish off the thought - and try and put it back as a Civic VS Mazda3 debate.

    CR rates the AC "good" because it does not break - not because it works well. Not everyone has problems with the Mazda3 AC - some people have systems that work fine - so they are happy - my point is - If you are lucky and get a good one GREAT - if you get a weak one you are stuck - because Mazda will not fix it. This is just the way it is - shame on Mazda for not stepping up and fixing this problem.

    How will Honda treat the customers who take a chance and buy a 2006 Civic - if it develops a problem (like an AC that does not cool)? Will they just say - its working as designed - so no fix - then just keep selling the same car - with the same problem for another model year - or maybe 2 more model years. Or will Honda step up and quickly try and fix the problem?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    How will Honda treat the customers who take a chance and buy a 2006 Civic - if it develops a problem (like an AC that does not cool)? Will they just say - its working as designed - so no fix - then just keep selling the same car - with the same problem for another model year - or maybe 2 more model years. Or will Honda step up and quickly try and fix the problem?

    Well, if history can be used to tell the future, Honda will rebuild/replace your problematic issue (if it is a nationwide problem, of course). Whenever a particular aspect of a Honda has shown less than stellar reliability, they up the warranty on that (and other related) parts, and will install a fresh, problem free thingamajig without much hassle. Odysseys (Odyssies?) have had some trouble with transmissions (that's no secret), and while not down to the level of Chrysler in the 90s, they have had more than normal complaints about it for a Honda. They promptly started putting new transmissions in cars WELL over their warranty (60k + miles not unusual).

    Seems like when Honda messes things up, they are quick to clean up their act.
  • mvs1mvs1 Posts: 462
    I think your overstating how quickly manufacturers are able to bring a new design to market. Companies are almost always chasing a moving target, what the competition will be are how better their next offering will be, not what it is today.

    Just because the Mazda3 came out in 04 doesn't mean Honda, Toyota or anyone else runs back to the drawing board and pushes out a new model. They have to recoup the R&D invested over the duration of the products life cycle, usually roughly five years time.

    It's very rare that companies launch products the same model year. It's neither here nor there, both these vehicles are great and regardless who pushes the envelope the customer wins by having multiple choices.

    Toyota mind you, is so far in front of both Honda and Mazda it's a shame. Honda is small company relative to Toyota and can not afford to launch a radical car and have it fail. Mazda is practically working from the ground up, and doing a fine job at that.
  • qddaveqddave Posts: 164
    Just because the Mazda3 came out in 04 doesn't mean Honda, Toyota or anyone else runs back to the drawing board and pushes out a new model. They have to recoup the R&D invested over the duration of the products life cycle, usually roughly five years time.

    Very true. In the January issue of Motor Trend, pg. 28 to be exact, they state that Toyota execs ordered a last minute redesign of the next gen Corolla after seeing the "avant garde" Civic in Geneva. They state that the launch has been reportedly moved back by 6 months.
  • qddaveqddave Posts: 164
    Honda likely has a tad more liquid cash flow available for just such an occasion too.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    history can be used to tell the future, Honda will rebuild/replace your problematic issue (if it is a nationwide problem, of course

    Don't be so sure...As a dealer who has Acura we knew about the tranny problem a long before Honda/Acura acknowledged the problem...it wasn't until so many had the problem that they decided to 'handle' the situation with a secret warranty. Oddly enough our Acura service department is our most profitable and it isnt because they are doing oil changes..

    After 20 years in the biz I have found that European and Asian brands, in general, are the worst about admitting problems...Domestics actually handle most recall & TSB issues better than most...maybe becasue they have most practice. ;)
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    Honda likely has a tad more liquid cash flow available for just such an occasion too

    Many car companies have insurnace policies to help with recalls and TSB...also, the suppliers usually have to join in on the parade. example, UTC paid Ford millions for its defective ignition switch that triggered a big recall earlier this year..
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I'm just saying about the A/C in the 3 everybody's hearing complaints but CR rates the 3 good in the A/C department. I;m just trying to understand how CR could rate the 3 good in the A/C department but everybody saying how bad the A/C in the 3 is.

    Consumer Reports likely looks at the number of repairs required per driver to get their results. It's similar to transmissions in Hondas. In the mid 1990s Honda auto-trannys shifted pretty jerky, but were extremely reliable. They are given an above average/excellent rating because, while the performance isn't stellar, they don't require repair or have problems that take away from the reliability of the automobile.
  • My wife and I went on a little trip to DC over the weekend. Over 500 miles where ~100 were city driving, we got a little over 30MPG. This might be a disaster for some Civic owners, but we are extremely happy with the mileage. My WRX would get 24MPG in the same situation if I'm lucky. (plus it eats premium)

    We have not used the A/C yet, obviously because it's in the middle of the winter. We'll see how bad it really is in a few months. But along with the mileage, this will be a very minor concern for us, as long as it doesn't break. I can see how it can be a major problem for some though, depending on where you live.

    One thing we learned after the trip. The driving experience is really as good as it can possibly be under $20K. It may not be the best in all areas, for instance I think the Civic has a slightly better manual tranny, and the Jetta has noticeably better steering. But when you sum everything up, the overall experience is definetely a class above all the other economy sedans.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "After 20 years in the biz I have found that European and Asian brands, in general, are the worst about admitting problems...Domestics actually handle most recall & TSB issues better than most...maybe becasue they have most practice."

    I kinda disagree with your post sort of but not entirely. Mazda offered people in 98 when the 99 Miata first came onto the market a chance for the customers to return the Miata because Mazda miscaqulated HP numbers. 5 years later Mazda had the same problem with HP numbers and they did offer a buyback on the RX-8 I Think.

    Honda stepped up to the plate with the tranny thing.

    I think Hyundai got in trouble for misqouting HP numbers on their cars a few years but I don't think they offered a buy back. Toyota didn't handle their sludge thing as well as Honda handled their tranny issue in my opinion. I'm not trashing any brands I'm just giving my opinion.

    I will agree with you that the Domestics do have better customer service departments than the Japanese brands do given the scores in customer service that I saw in Consumer Reports a few years back. Who knows that surevey was 3 years ago though. I haven't seen any customer survey since in CR. Lexus and Infinti have good scores in regards to customer service and their Japanese luxury brands. I know luxury car brands usually give better service than regular model brands(honda, Ford.)
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    "Just because the Mazda3 came out in 04 doesn't mean Honda, Toyota or anyone else runs back to the drawing board and pushes out a new model. They have to recoup the R&D invested over the duration of the products life cycle, usually roughly five years time."

    I know Honda and Toyota just can;t just run back to the drawing board and oush a new model. I also understand they have to wait until the 5 year model cycle of a particular car is up.

    "Toyota mind you, is so far in front of both Honda and Mazda it's a shame. Honda is small company relative to Toyota and can not afford to launch a radical car and have it fail. Mazda is practically working from the ground up, and doing a fine job at that."

    Mazda has in a rebuilding mode for awhile now.
  • "I think Hyundai got in trouble for misqouting HP numbers on their cars a few years but I don't think they offered a buy back."

    We had a V6 Santa Fe that was affected by this. They offered you the choice of better warranty coverage - I believe it was extending bumper to bumper to 6/72 from 5/60 or extending powetrain to 12/120 from 10/100. There were other choices too - maybe roadside for the life of your car or something like that We were happy with the deal, as the difference in HP wasn't that big (173 vs 181)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,618
    if you used the defroster, you probably used the a/c, but that does not help as far as cooling capacity goes.
  • carguy58carguy58 Posts: 2,303
    Ok, if there is enough complaints about the A/c in the Mazda 3 isn't that where the NHTSA comes in and forces a recall? Mazda should issue a recall on these A/C systems in my opinion.
  • I don't think it is a safety issue, so I doubt that NHTSA will come to the rescue.

    Here in Houston, a good air conditioner is a requirement.

    Good Luck, I know the new Dodge Charge lost a lot of sales here because of the poor AC. At max AC it was just barely cool on a summer day.

    Soon to be cruis'n in a SI :shades: ,

    MidCow
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    Mazda should issue a recall on these A/C systems in my opinion

    The problem seems to be bigger on edmunds than anywhere else. Our dealerships have only seen a few customers with the a/c complaint. We have had more people complaining about a slow clock than inop A/C.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I just read that the 2007 Mazda 3 will get a much welcomed 5-speed automatic. Had anyone else heard this? I can tell you where I read it, though I am not sure how credible the source is.
  • I just read that the 2007 Mazda 3 will get a much welcomed 5-speed automatic. Had anyone else heard this? I can tell you where I read it, though I am not sure how credible the source is. "

    I guess it's credible, considering that the 2006 Mz3s already has a 5 speed auto (3i's still have 4 speed)

    Right there on the Mazda website...
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Sorry, I misread what MY source said, and it is totally my fault. It said, and I quote:

    The only thing it needed was a 5 speed auto, and it just got it for 2006.

    For some reason, I read that as it needed it for 2006, and (Later in the article, it mentions the changes for the 2007.) obviously I was wrong! Thanks for the correction, and for not mocking me for my mistake, as many people on some forums do. Simple mistake!

    Sorry again,

    thegrad
  • vix4vix4 Posts: 52
    Wow, I know I'm late to this comparison forum, but I am amazed at how much better the Mazda3 rates compared to the new Civic in the Edmunds test.

    Usually these comparisons are close and personal preference takes over at the end, but in this case the Mazda3 really seems to be the clear leader.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Wow, I know I'm late to this comparison forum, but I am amazed at how much better the Mazda3 rates compared to the new Civic in the Edmunds test.

    Usually these comparisons are close and personal preference takes over at the end, but in this case the Mazda3 really seems to be the clear leader.


    Just keep in mind that most car rag editors are all about high performance. The Civic has a very distinct advantage in the economy department (it is an ECONOMY car, after all). The Civic as Car of the Year from Motor Trend isn't anything to sneeze at, either.

    Remember, different people, different priorities, different preferences. Drive each of them and let us know what you think!

    Have a good holiday weekend,

    thegrad
  • d_hyperd_hyper Posts: 130
    The Civic has a very distinct advantage in the economy department (it is an ECONOMY car, after all).

    True, buyers have different priorities. But 'Economy' class
    does not mean fuel economy. Except for 'luxury', the classes are divided by size, not fuel mileage. Therefore, 'Compact' is more appropriate. If someone needs to save money, they may buy a 'subcompact' or a used car. There is not much economy in spending $20K for a car.
  • vix4vix4 Posts: 52
    The Edmunds article really blew me away, the way the Mazda out did the Civic by such a large margin. I think the Mazda defies the "Economy car" label. It might cost the same as the other economy cars, but it performs like its in a completely different class.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I would think that buyers who can't spend more than $20k on a car (or just won't in many cases) will appreciate an advantage in fuel economy, maybe more so than an advantage at the dragstrip. This was my general point.
  • d_hyperd_hyper Posts: 130
    Understood...There are also people in sub-compact class who would value savings at the pump even more. We can all generalize the more expensive the car, the less people care about fuel economy. However, real life MPG numbers are within 5% according to the magazine research mentioned on the this thread several times.

    Personally, I wouldn't purchase a car with a digital speedo
    even if it was an overall winner. Especially, if the speedo
    is in a driver's sight. It is an absolute distraction to see numbers go up/down, up/down... It's OK if placed on a lower level, but not right in front of your eyes. :confuse:

    On the other hand, 'Civic' is a household name, Mazda3 is not.
  • Consumer Reports has a glowing report on the Civic.

    "The redesigned Honda civic has climbed to the top of our small-sedan ranking. ...The aerodynamic styling of the Civic looks futuristic but sacrifices ease of access."

    If performamce is your concern get the Civic Si, which has the equivalent mileage to the Mazda 3 and significantly out-performs.

    Soon to have an Si,

    MidCow
  • d_hyperd_hyper Posts: 130
    Here, we compare sedans. You know, like not having to bend
    for rear bench access. I would actually take a M6 hatch w/V6 over Si, but that would belong to a different forum IMO

    Congrats on Si! Drive Safely ;)
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