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Honda Civic vs Mazda3

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Comments

  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    The first year bugs you see with the Civic have been relatively minor compared to most first year models. It has swept virtually every award it was eligable for and has drawn praise from a wide variety of sources."

    But those awards have nothing at all to do with relaibility. They were given out right as the car was hitting the street.

    I'll also note those awards didn't help the Civic in the comparision test done by the site you are currently participating in...
  • mcapmcap Posts: 49
    The edmunds comparo? Well, they simply don't like the Civic and test wasn't exactly objective. They take an EX and compare it to a 3s GT? They rail against the digital speedo. But almost everyone who has one, loves it.

    As for reliability, you are correct. This is the first year of a complete redesign. No one knows how it will end up. With Honda's track record however, there is plenty of reason for optomism.

    Please also note that when the 3 was new, everyone on the Mazda board claimed it would be reliable because the protege was reliable. As for the 3, it's oldest cars are only a few years old. People have faith in Honda because of what they do 8, 9 and 10 years down the road. In that case, there is no way to know how reliable either the 3 or the Civic will be. All we have is the company's track record and Mazda's is not as good as Hondas. Look at what has happened to the lastest iterations of the 6. What happened to the reliability?

    I also think there were a lot of really odd problems with the 3 that may not be showing up on surveys. The air conditioning was rated as fine by Consumer's but there have been numerous complaints.

    Again, both great cars and probably both reliable. I just don't think its a slam dunk for the 3 as some on this board would have you believe. The 3, to it's credit has been very solid so far - I can't argue with that. Long term, we will have to see.

    Mcap
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    "They take an EX and compare it to a 3s GT? "

    FWIW, that only hurt the Mazda. It took away points because of the higher price. If it was compared w/ the s Touring like it should have been, the margin of victory would have been larger.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Since the 3 has been introduced I have read about problems related to airbag warning light, a transmission reflash and poor shifting, squealing breaks (loud), grooved rear rotors, stalling, not starting, a clock that fails to keep accurate time, a seat problem, air conditioning, air conditioning and air conditioning

    Yes, the Mazda3 has had some quirks. Mostly in 2004. Since then, really no complaints. I work for a Mazda dealer, and I just spoke with my service manager, a Mazda man for over 10 years, and he said the Mazda3 has been basically flawless after the 2004 model year. He only see's them for oil changes and the 7,500 mile services. I also asked about the air conditioning complaints, he said Mazda has solved that problem.

    The first year bugs you see with the Civic have been relatively minor compared to most first year models

    See, the problem is that many hold Honda as the best car on the road, especialy Honda owners, and when you see these problems in a Honda, it's a big big deal. I have noticed a trend in the decline in quality with Honda. Mainly in their V6 models, but, I must say I am surprised to see this trickle down into to coveted Civic. It could be just "first year bug's", but, we will have to wait a few years for that to prove true.

    Don't take that statement as me saying Honda's are a bad vehicle, they are quite the opposite. Definitely one of the best. But, stats don't lie, and they don't make as good of a car as they used to.
  • z71billz71bill Posts: 2,000
    I expect some extra first year bugs when I buy a completely redesigned car. I have never heard anyone say - go buy a first year car they always have less problems - I mean really - no need to tell me the sun comes up in the east!

    That is not an excuse for the horrible treatment that Mazda dishes out - is it?

    If someone has a car with no problems thats great - but if you really want to evaluate the customer service of a company you need to ask someone that has had to use it. I have seen the same post many times - My car has NO PROBLEMS - Mazda customer service is great!

    It took Mazda about 1 1/2 years to issue a TSB on the grinding brake defect - the harsh shifting tranny - the thumping front end - anyone think that is good service?

    What about the AC issue - does anyone know of even a single customer - that has had their AC problem fixed?

    I don't think a company should get a gold medal for solving obvious defects in their 2004 model by the 2005 & 2006 model year. The measure of good customer service is quickly solving the problems that do come up - IMO quickly is not 18 months.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Look at what has happened to the lastest iterations of the 6. What happened to the reliability?

    Well, the V6 Mazda6 is a Ford engine, that's what happened. The Mazda3 i (4-cyl) is Recommended by CR.

    I do agree with most of what you said. The new Civic is nothing like the previous gen. and the Mazda3 is nothing like the Protege. Both of those vehicles had impeccable reliability. I guess we should have this comparo 5 years from now, and then see how they stack up.

    Even though I work for a Mazda dealer, I still hold Honda in high regard. When I have a customer shopping the Mazda3 against the Civic, I always say "the Civic is a great car, I just feel you will like our car more.".
  • mrblonde49mrblonde49 Posts: 626
    I expect some extra first year bugs when I buy a completely redesigned car. I have never heard anyone say - go buy a first year car they always have less problems - I mean really - no need to tell me the sun comes up in the east!

    That is not an excuse for the horrible treatment that Mazda dishes out - is it?

    If someone has a car with no problems thats great - but if you really want to evaluate the customer service of a company you need to ask someone that has had to use it. I have seen the same post many times - My car has NO PROBLEMS - Mazda customer service is great!

    It took Mazda about 1 1/2 years to issue a TSB on the grinding brake defect - the harsh shifting tranny - the thumping front end - anyone think that is good service?

    What about the AC issue - does anyone know of even a single customer - that has had their AC problem fixed?

    I don't think a company should get a gold medal for solving obvious defects in their 2004 model by the 2005 & 2006 model year. The measure of good customer service is solving the problems that do come up. ""

    The point was that you were making reliability judgements based on a first year model car, when time has shown those problems to have been solved. The service may be lacking, but that doesn't mean that a 2006 is an unreliable car
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Everyone has different experiences. You have obviously had a bad one, and you are totally within your right to express that here. But, the current discussion is reliability of the 06 Civic and 06 Mazda3, with taking into account 1st year bug's associated with a new model. You are talking about customer service with the corporate offices of Mazda, or your particular Mazda dealer. There are other threads for that.

    Just because you had a bad experience with a Mazda dealer, does not mean all are bad, as you implied in a previous statement. You particular experience with 1-800-Mazda seems to be a negative one, but, others have had A+ experiences.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    I remember that it also was 2-3 seconds faster, 0-60, than the Auto, and about 5 MPG more efficient! :shades:

    If that isn't reason enough to learn how to drive......

    DrFill
  • z71billz71bill Posts: 2,000
    It is true I have a 2004 - but YOU are missing the point

    Honda has better CUSTOMER SERVICE IF YOU DO HAVE A PROBLEM. Which most cars will have at some point.

    Are you trying to convince me that when a 2004 model comes in for a problem (still under warranty BTW) Mazda says - tell them its normal for brakes to grind , tranny to shift poorly bla bla bla take your pick - but when a 2006 model comes in with a problem Mazda says - We better jump right on this and get it fixed!

    Its the same company with the same people - same policies that sold me my 2004 that is now selling 2006 models.

    As far as the AC in the 2006 model is concerned - all the issues have been fixed - really - I think that is a complete lie - please someone prove me wrong -

    If the problem has been fixed what did they do to fix it?

    Hard to accept that it just went away on its own - where is the TSB to fix the 2004 & 2005 models?

    Or is this company that has such great customer service going to just leave anyone that bought a car with a defect to just twist in the wind?
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    DrFill said:
    "I remember that it also was 2-3 seconds faster, 0-60, than the Auto, and about 5 MPG more efficient!

    If that isn't reason enough to learn how to drive...... "

    I agree manual is awesome to drive, but I think your facts are incorrect. Here is what i found as objective, factual data:


    0-60 manual 2.3 Mazda 3= 8.0 seconds Consumer Guide
    0-60 auto4sp 2.0 Mazda 3= 9.6 seconds Consumer Reports

    The biggest diffrence between the auto in the 2.0L and the manual in the 2.3 L is only 1.6 seconds. Typically 3speed automatics are a little over a second and 5-6 speed automatics are pretty close to equal to manuals

    Mileage difference ?

    auto 2.3 25/31
    man 2.3 25/32
    auto 2.0 26/34
    Man 2.0 28/35

    You only gain the efficiency if you are comparing the smaller and larger engine not auto versus manual

    I Shift,

    MidCow
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    If you're going to correct me, you could at least reference the article I was referring to.

    Might prove relevant to the conversation. :confuse:

    I wasn't referring to EPA estimates.

    DrFill
  • w9cww9cw Posts: 888
    Although this report and survey is a bit old (2002/2003), it still is representative of the trend in reliability of the major Asian auto manufacturers. Most likely, some of these manufacturers have improved even further.

    See link:

    http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-03-11-cr-picks_x.htm
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    The current CR 5-year checkup on reliability (2001-2005)

    1. Lexus/Toyota 20-40 problems/100 vehicles
    2. Acura/Honda 20-90 problems/100 vehicles
    3. Infiniti 40 problems/100 vehicles
    4. Subaru 40-50 problems/100 vehicles
    5. Mazda 30-80 problems/100 vehicles
    15. Hyundai 60-110 problems/100 vehicles

    The average model 75 problems/100 vehicles

    Although this report and survey is a bit old (2002/2003), it still is representative of the trend in reliability of the major Asian auto manufacturers. Most likely, some of these manufacturers have improved even further

    I think this article is a bit out dated. Especialy in regards to Hyundai
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    Hey Dr. Fill,

    I wnet back to the EXACT article and evidently those quoting it didn't read it, I am a Consumers Reports subscriber.

    They comoared a manual and an automatic 2.0 L i sedan

    auto: 0-60 9.6 seconds mileage 150 mile loop = 32
    man: 0-60 8.6 seconds mileage 150 mile loop = 36

    So acceleration difference equals 1 second , not 2-3 seconds.

    Mileage diffrence =4 mpg , so okay your 5 mpg is pretty accurate.

    Cheers,

    MidCow
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    Okay what is the exact statistical distribution, the average, the mean, and the standard deviation. Remember a range is a very, very weak statistic. Did you know that of all the people that had birthdays yesterday their age ranged between 0 and 100+ years old! That is a range!!!

    For example let's say that all of Honda/Acura was close to 20 with one report of 90, let's say the average was then 22

    Let's also say that Mazda had all at 80 with one at 30, then the average was 79.

    So then Honda/Acura 22 compared to Mazda 79, then Honda much ,much beteer. But it could be vice-versa just as easy.

    You see what I mena a range statistic is pretty meaningless. Tell me the mean, average and standard deviation.

    Good book "How to lie with statisitics" There was a race with only two entrants: Russia and USA. USA came in first and Russia came in second. It was repoted two ways: USA First, Russai second. and Russai second, USA next to last.

    So for your information ,no one can surmise which is more reliable!
    Cheers,

    MidCow
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    The Mazda3 man was 2-3 seconds faster than something in that issue, while considerably more efficient. I only read it in passing at Borders.

    What was it?

    DrFill
  • d_hyperd_hyper Posts: 130
    In what race Russia came second? Not in space race for sure.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Maybe this will help you, cowboy...

    Averages set by CR.

    1. Lexus-25/100
    Toyota-30/100
    2. Acura-38/100
    Honda-40/100
    3. Infini-45/100
    4. Subaru-48/100
    5. Mazda-50/100
    15. Hyundai-78/100

    So, MidCow, do these averages by CR constitute an accurate reliability rating? This also goes to disprove your statement yesterday about Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura being the only "very reliable vehicles". Heck, Mazda is closer in reliability to Honda then Honda is to Lexus.
  • dripgossdripgoss Posts: 7
    I'm glad I haven't had any of the supposed reliability problems with Hyundai that some of the data you people seem to whip out.

    I have a 97 Elantra wagon that won't die. 150k miles, cross country twice (hauling probably a ton of stuff) and all I've had to replace (minus brakes, a few belts, wipers, tires, etc) is a thermostat and a transmission regulator (both ~$200 repairs). I'm in the market now for a replacement, but the 07 Sonatas and Santa Fe's are on my list of must test cars...

    Hyundais definitely make great used cars if you plan on driving them into the ground. Buy a 1 year old Sonata, let someone else soak up the depreciation and "test" the lemmon factor of the car for a year and you should still be able to benefit from the remainder of the killer warranty...
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I was under the impression that the Hyundai/Kia warranty didn't fully transfer; I read that on a Kia board referring to a Sedona. Am I wrong?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    was under the impression that the Hyundai/Kia warranty didn't fully transfer; I read that on a Kia board referring to a Sedona. Am I wrong?

    The 10yr-100K power train warranty does NOT transfer, the 5yr-60K bumper to bumper warranty does transfer, but, Hyundai is not known for accepting full warranty work. My co-worker worked for Hyundai for 10+ years, thats my source on that.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    ... Hyundai is not known for accepting full warranty work ...

    That is news to me. The dealers I've taken my two Elantras to for service have never failed to accept warranty work, and in fact they have done some things under warranty that technically they would not have had to do, just based on the terms of the warranty.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    That is news to me. The dealers I've taken my two Elantras to for service have never failed to accept warranty work, and in fact they have done some things under warranty that technically they would not have had to do, just based on the terms of the warranty

    I guess everyones expierence is different. My co-worker who worked for them is where I got that statement from. He may have worked for sub par Hyundai dealer. I have never owned a Hyundai.
  • slate1slate1 Posts: 84
    MidCow will not be happy until we all subscribe to the fact that on the 8th day God created Honda and that only after an uncountable millennia of perfecting did he create God’s gift to all mankind, his only begotten Civic…. ;)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I don't think anyone means any harm, but let's get back to the cars and skip the commentary on other posters.
  • slate1slate1 Posts: 84
    ... my apologies pat ... it just that this thread has swayed quite a distance from it's topic of the MAZDA3 -vs- the Honda Civic. NOT the entire Mazda line -vs- the entire Honda line... as some others who shall now remain nameless seem to think.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    My Honda could beat up your Mazda...I mean your dad...
    .
    .
    .
    Sorry, it was too quiet around here.
  • OK, except for the million posts off topic, this is a great forum! I am in the 11th hour trying to decide on the civic ex or the mazda 3s HB. Trading in a '03 Santa Fe which has been a great SUV but we have two and I drive 20k+ miles a year and gas is killing me. Also, at 60k miles it is ready for some serious work (at least brakes and tires plus unforeseen stuff I'm sure). With all the options considered (basically I MUST have a moonroof [stop snickering, it's just the way it is]... ABS, side curtain airbags, etc, and with the PATHETIC resale/trade value of the Hyundai, I'm looking at $20g for either model.

    That said...I test drove both and CLEARLY the Mazda performs better. Fun and cool and zippy. The Honda was mushy and plain, very slushy braking, so-so power, kind of similar to my current SUV. However, the Honda definitely felt bigger and more sedan-like. Maybe it's just perception, but that's how it felt to me.

    My biggest question is:
    1. How can the safety of these two be so close in most comparisons when the Honda is CLEARLY way ahead in all crash tests and ratings?

    I have a 6 month old baby and safety is a concern. Although this car is primarily my "commuter" vehicle, I still plan to bring the kid to school in it and hoped to use it for longer trips particularly for the gas mileage and driving fun.

    My heart is leaning towards the Mazda because I'm sure I will enjoy it more. My head is leaning towards the Honda because it seems more "sensible" (blech, did I say that)? When I add a rear wing spoiler and chrome exhaust tip to the Honda, it's actually pretty sporty looking. Still "plain jane" on the inside and the cloth color options are truly pathetic, and it STILL drives like grandpa's car... aarrrggghhhhhh...

    Damn, what a dilemma? Any comments would be appreciated. Any Mazda 3 owners with young kids?! Please spare me the "get a bigger car" stuff, I already know that but can't quite afford it.

    Thanks for reading this diatribe from an indecisive schmoe. Any comments are appreciated!

    Best,
    Mike
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