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Honda Civic vs Mazda3

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  • z71billz71bill Posts: 2,000
    I had many issues with my Mazda3 - multiple trips to two different dealerships - calls to Mazda 800 number- nothing was working - horrible customer service.

    The dealer told me it was up to Mazda and Mazda told me it was up to the dealership. What a joke - so I sent Mazda an E-mail - listed out all the service visits I had made with dates - what was done - bla bla bla - I also listed my calls to the 800 Mazda number - bla bla bla

    This was not a nasty letter - no foul language - all just straight facts. My only question was - What do you suggest I do NOW to resolve these problems?

    The response I got back from Mazda was - Go see your states attorney general. When I tried to send another e-mail to Mazda customer service I had been BLOCKED in their system. The e-mail came back undelivered. Later I determined I had been blocked for 90 days.

    Mazda customer service is a joke.

    The thing that is also important to know - every one of the problems I was having - eventually had a TSB issued - all but one of the TSB's did fix the problem.

    The one that was not solved was the weak AC - first I was told it was operating as designed - then a TSB came out with a fix - I took the car in to the dealership - and after checking my AC was told MY CAR HAD THE PROBLEM and they would perform the repair. But the repair DID NOTHING to solve the problem - so then I was told my car was operating as designed.
  • mazdrvrmazdrvr Posts: 103
    thats so true!! my bad!
  • mazdrvrmazdrvr Posts: 103
    Your statement is so right on, even Japan made cars, could be a lemon. Both the Civic & 3 are undeniably great cars for different reasons (or else this thread wouldn't be on- going) and depending what you like & are looking for, etc, buy the one you like. I too for almost the same reasons purchased the 3. I am happy w/ it but reading some of the statements, experiences started to make me a little worried.
  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?board=1032.0

    Look how many MS3s are breaking motor mounts, in case anyone is wondering about Mazda quality.
  • autonomousautonomous Posts: 1,769
    Look how many MS3s are breaking motor mounts, in case anyone is wondering about Mazda quality.

    Actually I don't see your point. It seems like some of the posts are from people who have not bought the car. The Mazdaspeed3 is also in its first year and we all know that any manufacturer (including Honda and Toyota) experiences the most problems with vehicles in their first model year. So, is it a surprise to anyone that there are some issues with the new Mazdaspeed3? No. Should owners expect that the problems be addressed? Yes. Is Mazda's reputation in jeapordy? Too early to tell.

    A manufacturer should be given a reasonable opportunity to address a problem with their product before being labelled one way or another.
  • >>>Look how many MS3s are breaking motor mounts, in case anyone is wondering about Mazda quality. "

    There are 3 of them. All Mazdaspeed 3's
  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    That include their cruddy HVAC system that took, what, 3 years to fix - and even that isn't certain until this Summer rolls around?
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Look how many MS3s are breaking motor mounts, in case anyone is wondering about Mazda quality.

    Oh Please, gimme a break, there have been 3!

    If you want to play that card, I will refer you to Civic Problems and Solutions board of this site. It think you will finds thousands of 2006+ Civic complaints. What does that say about Honda quality? Oh wait, but that cant be, Hondas are considered the best in the industry in quality, and every other car is not quality right? I don't think so.

    My point, every car company has their issues, no car is perfect, not even Honda.
  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    There are 4, plus one that is very loose. Let's make some assumptions - 5000 MS3s/yr., but it is doubtful the full allocation has arrived yet, since they have 7-8 months left to go in the model year, so it's probable that no more than 1500-2000 that have been sold. Moreover, these are only those that have been documented on the internet on a single website. So, taking 5/2000, that gives us 0.25% failure. The actual failure rate will be higher, possibly 1%, considering that not every owner is a member of an internet forum and voicing their complaint to the public. Not good odds for a safety problem.

    Moreover, for those who want to minimize the severity of this, what happens when your engine drops out going 75mph? Honda may have issues, but none that I'm aware of that could kill the driver, passengers, or other motorists.
  • Mazda fanboys?

    You said look how many reports there were, so I looked and I answered you. Three. In a limited edition race car that has some obvious problems, related to the stress the much more powerful engine.

    However, this issue does not affect 99%+ of current Mazda 3 owners nad never will, depite your alarmist overtones about Mazda quality
  • LOL

    a 0.25% failure rate on a brand new model. Probably pretty good. The actual failure rate will be pretty similar considering most owners who experience problems do post on forums and such.

    Honda doesn't have issues that would kill occupants of their cars? That's why they never issue recalls? Oh wait they they just issued a recall for their Civic hybrids:

    link title

    The defect in these cars could cause the engine to stop. What happens when your engine stops when you are going 75mph? This is an issue in over 45,000 civic hybrids. Not just 4 cars.

    Obviously, this doesn't mean that Honda has poor quality or reliability. And yes, Honda is doing the right thing by issuing a recall.

    Seriously, stop making blanket statements about a manufacturers reliability/quality based on small samples or single issues.

    Oh, and here's a report saying Mazda tops reliability rankings (Honda is a very close second):

    link title
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    You mean to say that their is evidence that Honda's are not perfect! Oh No! This surely must be a mistake! LOL

    Seriously, stop making blanket statements about a manufacturers reliability/quality based on small samples or single issues.


    I could not agree more. The problem with Honda people is that when they do have an issue with their Honda, and they have been Honda loyal for many years, they do not like to admit they are having problems, hence the reliability rating. I have a good friend who is the service manager at our local Honda dealership, and he sees Hondas (newer ones) being repaired daily for major and minor issues. He is my source for Honda owners being in denial when they have problems. In his opinion, they are no better then Mazdas, and he IS a Honda owner.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Seriously, stop making blanket statements about a manufacturers reliability/quality based on small samples or single issues.


    I could not agree more. The problem with Honda people is that when they do have an issue with their Honda, and they have been Honda loyal for many years, they do not like to admit they are having problems, hence the reliability rating.


    I think the pot is calling the kettle black, aviboy. You just made a blanket statement about Honda owners here, one with which I don't particularly agree. If we Honda owners were as you say we are, why would there even be a very active maintenance and repair forum for the cars? When I have had an issue with my vehicle, I've posted there, and gotten some solutions. My Honda isn't perfect, and my friend's Mazda 3 isn't perfect, but saying "Honda people this" and "Honda people that" is doing exactly what you were condemning.

    You eliminated your credibility with the statement "I couldn't agree more" and then turned around and made your own blanket statement. You can't have it both ways, so let's just not have it.

    This isn't necessary, from either camp (Mazda OR Honda).
  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    What happens when your engine stops when you are going 75mph?

    Uh, put on the turn signal and coast to the shoulder?


    Seriously, stop making blanket statements about a manufacturers reliability/quality based on small samples or single issues.

    Oh, and here's a report saying Mazda tops reliability rankings (Honda is a very close second):


    Is this a large enough sample for you?

    http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006133

    Notice how the Honda Civic is tops in its class and Mazda doesn't even place. Notice how Mazda is below average in long-term reliability and Honda is above average. More fanboyism from the Mazda partisans to suggest otherwise.

    BTW, a component has a low defect rate if it experiences failure at a rate of 1 part per million, not 5 out of 2000.
  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    I could not agree more. The problem with Honda people is that when they do have an issue with their Honda, and they have been Honda loyal for many years, they do not like to admit they are having problems, hence the reliability rating. I have a good friend who is the service manager at our local Honda dealership, and he sees Hondas (newer ones) being repaired daily for major and minor issues. He is my source for Honda owners being in denial when they have problems. In his opinion, they are no better then Mazdas, and he IS a Honda owner.

    Talk about taking a limited sampling to base their opinion upon? You don't even have any evidence to back yours up, just second-hand anecdotes.
  • cz75cz75 Posts: 210
    You said look how many reports there were, so I looked and I answered you. Three. In a limited edition race car that has some obvious problems, related to the stress the much more powerful engine.

    However, this issue does not affect 99%+ of current Mazda 3 owners nad never will, depite your alarmist overtones about Mazda quality,


    Sorry, there are still 4 and 1 probable. It is NOT a race car, despite the fantasies of Mazda fanboys to the contrary. Ever heard of engineering and product development? Apparently, neither has Mazda, or they wouldn't be putting dangerous junk on the road without properly testing it for component failure and poor design first.

    99% of Mazda3 owners may not experience this problem, but a fair number of 'Speed3 owners will. How many 3 owners are experiencing the garbage Mazda calls A/C? Of course a "racecar" doesn't need that. LOL.

    http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=28532.0
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    I admit, I got a bit carried away, however, I am not claiming what I believe "Honda people" say or do, because I am not one. I was stating what I have heard from another source. That was not my opinion, nor my accusation. It was a simple statement of incite that I have received from whom I believe to be a credible source. I am not calling the kettle black. Not one post of mine has ever called Mazda's perfect, because they are not. No car is.

    I happen to believe that the quality and reliability of both Honda and Mazda are on par with one another. I speak from ownership of both brands. I have said over and over that both Civic and Mazda3 are excellent choices, to which I know you have witnessed.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    "Ever heard of engineering and product development? Apparently, neither has Mazda, or they wouldn't be putting dangerous junk on the road without properly testing it for component failure and poor design first. "

    And what is your response to the thousands of Civic Hybrids that can turn off when traveling at a high rate of speed? Would you call those cars "dangerous junk"? How about "poor engineering"? Has Honda ever heard of "engineering and product development"?

    NO, NO, and YES.

    No matter how many times you test, test, and re test a vehicle, things are bound to happen. Picking out 3 or 4 cases of incidents where a really bad thing happened in not a way to judge a vehicles quality. I bet if I dig I can find a bit more then 3 or 4 instance where something terribly wrong happened to a Honda. But, I think you would disagree with me if I made a statement so absurd like "Honda puts junk on the road" or "Honda does not develop or engineer a car to well".

    I've gotten to the point to where I want to skip your posts because they are just utter nonsense.
  • sandman46sandman46 Posts: 1,798
    Both great cars and both have had warranty work done on them. So what! At the time that we bought both, they were the best fit at the time for each of us. Now, the better half is ready for some more "luxury" in her daily driver. Dosen't make her 3 a bad car, just that her wants in a car have changed. If Mazda comes out with a luxury car to fit her new variables, she might just buy it next time.
    We're content with Honda and Mazda inour house.

    Mr. & Mrs. Sandman :)
  • d_hyperd_hyper Posts: 130
    So you still trumpeting 3(!) poor failures of Speed3 over 45,000 unreliable Civics? Interesting logic. And please don't involve statistics, because for higher-production cars you have bigger budgets to test and release a reliable car to the public.

    Also, JDPowers is about 'newer' cars with owners reporting. What if Honda owners just don't believe it "broke" - it still is under the warranty? What if they just don't report the problems? There are to many "ifs" you need to consider if you want to form a balanced opinion.

    On the other hand, a largest insurance study of actual claims is, probably, the most reliable source of reliability rankings. :D
  • No, it's not a large enough sample size...
    I already pointed to other reliability surveys (consumer's report, and the link in my previous post) that contradict that JD powers report. You can't simply look at a single survey even and come to conclusions.

    5 out of 2000 isnt much compared to 100% now is it? Nor is 5 much compared to 45,000.

    LOL, you picked the wrong day to knock Mazda's reliability compared to Honda's.
  • ex_tdierex_tdier Posts: 275
    Oh, and here's a report saying Mazda tops reliability rankings (Honda is a very close second):

    That report is very flawed: Check out from post 53 on:
    http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=15282.30

    In life, there are lies, damn lies, and statistics.

    Also, any dealership even Toyota will see all sorts of problems because that's what they do, fix cars. If no vehicle had any problems there will be no need for dealers to have service advisors and mechanics. Therefore, it's a irrevelant that a Honda Service Manager says he sees lots of Hondas in every day. The fact is, there are lots of Hondas out there. There is absolutely no make and model out here that have little repairs going on. The old Maytag commercial is only a fantasy.

    Using JD Powers, which is more credible, IMO than Car and Driver, clearly shows that the Mazda is less reliable than a Honda.
  • ex_tdierex_tdier Posts: 275
    As mentioned earlier, any manufacturer and model can be a lemon. However, the law of probability has to be considered and weighed in your purchase decision. If you believe JD Powers (my experience has been completely accurate with all their surveys when it comes to reliability) then buying a Mazda will only increase your chances of having issues.

    Unfortunately, many people think that the Mazda3 is a "cheap car" and therefore, dismiss any issues with their car because they feel it is cheap. At the same time, some people will buy a problem plagued Range or Land Rover despite knowing that and most British Cars are incredibly unreliable.

    At the end of the day, do your own research and decide what you want.
  • mazdrvrmazdrvr Posts: 103
    I agreed w/ you the first time... ;) Very good point made!
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Therefore, it's a irrevelant that a Honda Service Manager says he sees lots of Hondas in every day. The fact is, there are lots of Hondas out ther

    I said "newer Hondas in for major and minor repairs..." They have just as many repairs as the next car... :P
  • I too am wondering about the clicking noise at the base of the windshield. Any luck? Love the car, just not crazy about the clicking.
  • >>Using JD Powers, which is more credible, IMO than Car and Driver, clearly shows that the Mazda is less reliable than a Honda. "

    You continue to confuse Initital Quality with reliability
  • To be fair to ex_tdier, JD Powers does also put out a 3year quality/reliability study. Mazda slightly trails the industry average in that one while Honda and Toyota do pretty well. Incidentally, Ford does really well in that one as well, with Mercury second (and ahead of Honda), and Ford and Lincoln not too far behind Honda.

    Are people willing to concede that Mercury cars are more reliable than Honda based on JD Powers summary?

    As for the warranty survey, what is so flawed about the survey. The link you directed us to really gave no insight as to what was really flawed with the survey. I could only find one guy who was complaining about the fact that only idiots would buy an extended warranty from warranty direct (so only if you are an idiot who buys Mazda, you'll be ok, but if you're an idiot who buys a make that doesnt do so well, your reliability drops.)

    Here are the pros and cons of the warranty survey that I see:
    Pros:
    they look at time points beyond 3 years
    they only look at major repairs
    they include true owners of vehicles (the vehicles are actually coming in for repairs, not just complaints or false reports, etc.)

    cons:
    their sample is limited to people who buy their warranty (is this sample biased in any significant way? I don't see how it is.)
    they are in business to make money (they might skew results to make the most money)
    they look only at major repairs

    For JD Powers:
    Pros:
    they try to maintain an unbiased sample size using industry approved methods.
    they try to make sure that owners are true owners.
    they ask over 200 questions in some of their surveys and cover many aspects of owner satisfaction

    Cons:
    they are in business to make money (results could be skewed for their own interests)
    they include things beyond major repairs in their rankings
    they are not very clear about how survey results translate into their rankings system.

    ex_tdier, it's not wise to give more credence to one survey just because it jives with your personal experience. My own experience with Mazda and Honda doesn't agree with JD Powers at all, but I don't disregard JD Powers results.

    As I said before, I don't take one survey and use those results as a Bible. Instead, try to look at what each survey is really looking at and come to your own conclusions.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Posts: 3,159
    Very detailed, clear and concise. Great post.

    I think you can throw Consumer Reports in that mix. However, I have to say their long term reliability seems to be fairly accurate.
  • These are the two top contenders for our next car.
    Can anyone help with a real world comparison ?
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