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Honda Civic vs Mazda3

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Comments

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I am referring to Mazda as a whole. The "madness" is that the 2 generations old Civic (2000) has $2,390 better resale than the one generation old Mazda (2000). THAT'S madness. Keep in mind, the Civic resale I alluded to was the last model year for that generation, and had been out since late 1995. I'd call it more than fair.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    I just read apx 30 posts and have come to a simple conclusion....Mazda folks like their cars better than boring Honda's and Honda folks like their cars better than fun to drive Mazda's...and nobody is going to change anyone's mind.
  • "I am referring to Mazda as a whole. The "madness" is that the 2 generations old Civic (2000) has $2,390 better resale than the one generation old Mazda (2000). THAT'S madness. Keep in mind, the Civic resale I alluded to was the last model year for that generation, and had been out since late 1995. I'd call it more than fair. "

    The 3 is showing to retain much more value than the protege - that's the part you don't seem to get. Compare an 04 civic to an 04 3. Civic resale won't get much better w/ new generation - how can it?

    Here's a comparison, trying to matchup options between both cars. Same mileage, color, and condition Not much difference, is there?

    2004 Mazda MAZDA3 s 4dr Sedan (2.3L 4cyl 5M)
    Trade-In Private Party Dealer Retail
    National Base Price $11,894 $13,037 $14,941
    Optional Equipment $793 $861 $1,082
    Front Side Airbags $93 $101 $127
    4-Wheel ABS $187 $203 $255
    Front and Rear Head Airbags $93 $101 $127
    4-Speed Automatic Transmission $420 $456 $573
    Color Adjustment
    Gray $24 $27 $30
    Regional Adjustment
    for Zip Code 07885 $-27 $-30 $-34
    Mileage Adjustment
    35,000 miles $-622 $-622 $-622
    Condition Adjustment
    Clean $0 $0 $0
    Total $12,062 $13,273 $15,397

    Certified Used Vehicle $16,397


    2004 Honda Civic EX 4dr Sedan (1.7L 4cyl 5M)
    Trade-In Private Party Dealer Retail
    National Base Price $12,656 $13,741 $15,551
    Optional Equipment $620 $659 $806
    Front Side Airbags $148 $157 $192
    4-Speed Automatic Transmission $472 $502 $614
    Color Adjustment
    Gray $26 $28 $32
    Regional Adjustment
    for Zip Code 07885 $-29 $-32 $-36
    Mileage Adjustment
    35,000 miles $-622 $-622 $-622
    Condition Adjustment
    Clean $0 $0 $0
    Total $12,651 $13,774 $15,731

    Certified Used Vehicle $16,758
  • You lnow Mr Blondie49 has made some excellent points about the Mazda 3. I even went back and reread reviews on the Mazda 3. There is an excellent one in Auto Consumer Guide.

    I think both the Mazda 3 and the Civic Si are great cars for what I am looking for. The regular Civic is a little slow for me; I had a 1980 1500 GL Civic and at the time I really liked getting 30 mpg on the highway. In Houston, the driving level and pace is much, much faster than where I used to live. That and the fact that I don't no how to drive automatics, blew the Prius for me.

    However, Maybe it is because I am older, but I really don't like the red gauges at night. I had a 98 BMW M3 and about the only thing I didn't like was the red/orange night gauge display. I had a 95 Integra GSR and it was very clear black on white. I liked the new RSX-X except for the red-orange display or I probably would have one.

    Eveen thopught the Si has a redish background, the Si is clear digital and easy for me to se as well as the tachometer. I also have a 2005 Accord which has very clear black on white displays.

    More than anything else, the red gauges probably blew the Mazda 3 wagon choice.

    Again, I think both are great cars and you really can't go wrong with either.

    cruis'n in 6th,

    MidCow

    P.S.- I have a brother-in-law that has a Mazda^ 4 cyl automatic and only gets 23-24 on the highway. I have a 6 cyl Accord 6-speed and get 29 mpg on the highway. That is my only true reference point about mazda milage claims so I could be wrong about the mileage of the 3 (2.3L) and 3i (2.0L) engines.

    P.S.S - Whatever car you get watchout for the Priuses. Therer are more and more of them out there and they go slow. So be careful and don't run over them.

    P.S.S. - Get Mazda to make a black on white gauge option and I will reconsider. The MX5 is a great value convertable
  • Gauge colors are clearly subjective, but I like the looks of the red at nite - especially with the small blue touches for some contrast.
  • Actually maybe I should have been clearer. I had 20-20 vision all my life but now need reading glasses to see clearly close-up. It is harder for me to focus and see clearly on red-ish orange smaller displays.

    Again, thanks for your knowledge and input about the Mazda 3.

    MidCow.
  • No problem.

    I didn't come here to bash the civic. Both cars are great cars that cater to slightly different crowds, with some intersection. I'm sure 95% of their respective owners are very happy with their choices, and that's a good thing in car ownership these days
  • z71billz71bill Posts: 2,000
    Red gauges or checkered pattern seats (like on the Mazda3) become invisible after a few weeks of ownership.

    But things like weak brakes - limited engine power - sloppy ride and poor handling last forever!
  • mvs1mvs1 Posts: 462
    Hello all, I was debating purchasing both of these vehicles. I was looking for a new commuter car and had basically open requirements, not bound to any brand even though I own and have owned several Hondas. Both the better half and I drove the Mazda3 and Civic a few times.

    I was flexible in regard to features with the exception of navigation, newly offered in the Civic EX, and option I wanted to have. This also required I step up to the Mazda3 grand touring model. In my particular comparison the Mazda did come out priced a few thousand higher. Granted the Mazda also has some added options the Civic does not such as; xenons, heated seats, etc.

    Both of these are really great vehicles in their respective class, I'm not adding anything new people do not already know. I honestly think they are so different and even though are classified in the same class cater to a different crowd.

    For me...and the wife a few things stood out in favor of the Civic. The Civic had more usable interior room both passenger and usable compartment space. A more user friendly dash layout or better put easier on the eyes, granted the Civic's layout is not the norm with the speedo higher. The Mazdas gauge color (orange) seemed to wash everything out. The Civic has voice activated Navi/audio controls, the Mazdas does not. The seats in the Civic were and still are very comfortable, the Mazdas were uncomfortable even on short drives. The Civic is quieter in terms of road noise heard in the cabin. While subjective I personally like the styling of the Civic better, for me it takes some queues from Acura.

    In favor of the Mazda were leather seating surfaces, not offered on the Civic. The car handles better, although the higher level of road noise does not add to the driving experience IMHO. The heated seats while very nice in my Audi, heated only a portion of the seat bottom on the Mazda, I test drove another Mazda with heated seats to verify this. Also, the heated seats are only on/off, not variable.

    Some have argued in favor of the stereos, to me they both sounded about the same.

    Also, anecdotal, two people I know have Mazda3s both have owners complained about squeaky brakes and underpowered AC units.

    I do believe Mazda and Honda differ in terms of production philosophy. In mazdas case, they simply put out TSBs for which their dealer network seems unaware of. I don't know to what lengths if any Mazda goes through to correct their production problems, this may be influenced by Ford, but who knows. In my case, delivery of the Civic was delayed. I was told they briefly stopped production to correct an issue with the acceleration pedal. To me this displays Hondas commitment to the customer, or a least a commitment to not face a lawsuit, the two are not mutually exclusive. :) Hondas reputation for quality is earned not given, in Mazdas case as many car manufacturers they've learned a company makes money in spite of itself for only so long.

    In any event, the Civic became the right choice for me at this time.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,618
    i agree, mazda is like darth vader. they are just out sway you over to the dark side and to put the screws to you. :P
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    I am referring to Mazda as a whole. The "madness" is that the 2 generations old Civic (2000) has $2,390 better resale than the one generation old Mazda (2000). THAT'S madness.

    Resale price means nothing unless you consider the original purchase price. What if originally the Civic cost $2400+ more than the Protege? Not at all out of the question, since the Protege often had incentives and the Civic did not.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I do get the fact that newer Mazdas have better relative resale than older ones. I understand the fact that right now, the 3 and the Civic are relatively close in trade-in prices. My point was that Honda's value held longer over time. The last Protege was (is still) a great car, beating out many competitors, including Civic, in several tests. I promise, I am not here to slam the 3, because I shopped them hard when I got my car in the fall, and liked them a lot. The dealer was 35 miles away, my main turn off. My point is just that over time, the Honda economy car has held better value than the Mazda economy car entry.
    2003 models, 4-cyl, good condition, 45,000 miles
    Mazda 6i - $9,960 (very good)
    Honda Accord LX - $11,835(even better!)
    Chevy Malibu - $5,405 (yikes)

    The only point these numbers make is that Mazda as a whole delivers marginally lower resale value. This is not a huge difference in my opinion, not enough to sway everyone from Mazda. It is just a point in Honda's favor. Hey, it could always be worse, you could drive a Chevy at trade in time!

    *Sorry I went off topic to prove my point. I've got that out of my system. I'm out for the night, so have a good weekend!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I am referring to Mazda as a whole. The "madness" is that the 2 generations old Civic (2000) has $2,390 better resale than the one generation old Mazda (2000). THAT'S madness.

    Resale price means nothing unless you consider the original purchase price. What if originally the Civic cost $2400+ more than the Protege? Not at all out of the question, since the Protege often had incentives and the Civic did not.

    Believe me, at 5 years old, the Civic design had dealer incentives (not highly advertised) and LOW (for the time) interest rates. (We shopped the when our 1998 was rear-ended, we got an Accord instead).
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    Mazda has manufacturer-to-dealer incentives also. But no to-consumer rebates on the Civic. It is simply misleading to talk about resale value without understanding what was paid up front. A BMW 3 Series has a much better resale value than a Kia Rio of the same year, for example.
  • Trade in values:

    2000 Mazda Protege ES AUTOMATIC in GOOD condition

    $4,375

    2000 Honda Civic EX Automatic in GOOD condition

    $6,765

    $2400 is a lot of money in the economy car game.


    The MSRP of the 2000 Civic EX was $1500 higher than the Protege ES. So that $2400 difference is really $900.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,686
    Exactly. And what was the out-the-door price on the two cars, with rebates and other incentives?
  • However, Maybe it is because I am older, but I really don't like the red gauges at night. I had a 98 BMW M3 and about the only thing I didn't like was the red/orange night gauge display. I had a 95 Integra GSR and it was very clear black on white. I liked the new RSX-X except for the red-orange display or I probably would have one.

    I'll admit, the red lights are a bit loud to me. Thankfully the dimmer helps a lot in that respect. White on black or even blue or green backlighting would be cool to me, softer on the eyes. Mazda thinks the red is sportier and sounds like a lot of people agree from what I've read on various sites. Perhaps it's me getting older, too, but that's the one thing I'd change on my 3 if I could. I can certainly live with it, but wouldn't necessarily choose it.
  • Red gauges or checkered pattern seats (like on the Mazda3) become invisible after a few weeks of ownership.

    The checked seat pattern was one of the things that actually drew me to the 3. Even though the Winning Blue exterior was my favorite color, it only had the blue/black checked seats. I went with Titanium Gray to get the red/black checked interior (or the UGA interior option, as I call it).

    I will say this, Mazda and Honda are two of the most rigid carmakers when it comes to interior/exterior color combinations. You really don't get much of a choice in the matter. The only Civic you get to choose interior color on is the Royal Blue, which offers either the ivory or gray. Every other exterior has an "assigned" interior. Mazda is the same way, except on s Touring models you can choose between the "assigned" checkered fabric or black leather.

    It worked out for me in the Mazda because I LOVE black interior. I'm sure there are buyers who would like another color, though.

    I've always heard that Honda does this to simplify their manufacturing process, which I suppose makes sense. I wonder if they will start offering more options as competition continues to increase? I also wonder why the heck they're offering a choice just on the Royal Blue color. Perhaps it's a test?
  • This is only my personal theory, but I think current Mazdas hold their value better than older ones because they are developing a strong brand identity. With the exception of the RX7, Mazdas were sort of oddballs compared to cars like Honda and Toyota. In the last three to four years, they have developed their "Zoom Zoom" identity. As a result, they're more desirable and valuable used.
  • I read somewhere that red on black display was the least distracting at night. I don't know much about aircraft but I understand they use them for this reason. It was also mentioned by C & D that the speedo on the Civic (Hybrid) was hard to see when wearing polarized sunglasses.
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    I just passed through it on the C&D forums. Here are the Civic's and Mazda3's rankings:

    1. Civic
    5. Civic Hybrid
    6. Mazda3 i
  • warnerwarner Posts: 196
    It was also mentioned by C & D that the speedo on the Civic (Hybrid) was hard to see when wearing polarized sunglasses.

    I read that somewhere, too.....so I tried it with my polarized glasses and it's simply not true (in fairness, I don't have a Hybrid, I have the EX Sedan, so maybe that's the difference?). At least not with my glasses (and yes, they ARE polarized...I paid a premium to make sure that was done). I didn't notice any difference in the appearance of the speedo (or radio display, which I think is what I heard became invisible with polarized glasses), other than it being a bit darker because of the shade of the lenses. Has anyone that reads this and actually owns a Civic had this happen? Can you not read the insturments (any of them) if you wear polarized glasses?

    Warner
  • crissmancrissman Posts: 145
    Hey ctalk. Thanks for the info. I'd like to read more. Could you please tell me what and where are the C & D forums? Thanks.
  • warnerwarner Posts: 196
    Hey ctalk. Thanks for the info. I'd like to read more. Could you please tell me what and where are the C & D forums? Thanks.

    Ditto....I'd like to read it, too.

    Thanks ctalk

    Warner
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    post the forum cause it's against the rules. But you can find it under Car and Driver's site.

    Here's the Civic's detailed scores:
    Civic:
    Highs: Powertrain refinement, fuel economy, fit and finish, crash-test results, cabin storage.
    Lows: Road noise.

    Civic:
    Automatic: acceleration: 3/5 (10.1 seconds to 60)
    Manual: acceleration: 4/5 (8.6 seconds to 60)
    Hybrid: acceleration: 2/5 (11.7 seconds to 60)
    Automatic: transmission: 5/5
    Manual: Transmission: 5/5
    Hybrid: Transmission: 5/5
    Routine Handling: 4/5
    Emergency Handling: 4/5
    Braking: 4/5
    Headlights: 2/5
    EX: Ride: 4/5
    Hybrid: Ride: 3/5
    Noise: 3/5
    Driving Position: 4/5
    Access: 4/5
    Controls and Displays: 4/5
    Fit and Finish: 4/5
    EX: Trunk: 3/5
    Hybrid: Trunk: 2/5
    Front Seat: 4/5
    Rear Seat: 3/5
    Automatic: Fuel Economy: 4/5 (28 mpg)
    Manual: Fuel Economy: 5/5 (31 mpg)
    Hybrid: Fuel Economy: 5/5 (37 mpg)


    I'll post Mazda3's detailed scores as soon as I get it.
  • crissmancrissman Posts: 145
    Thanks, ctalk. I should have thought of C & D since I read it frequently.
  • "i agree, mazda is like darth vader. they are just out sway you over to the dark side and to put the screws to you. "

    It's much more fun on the dark side. :)
  • " Mazda thinks the red is sportier and sounds like a lot of people agree from what I've read on various sites. "

    Works for BMW! ;)
  • ctalkctalk Posts: 646
    Mazda3's detailed scores:

    Mazda3 i:
    Automatic: acceleration: 3/5 (9.6 seconds to 60)
    Manual: acceleration: 4/5 (8.6 seconds to 60)
    Automatic: transmission: 4/5
    Manual: Transmission: 5/5
    Routine Handling: 5/5
    Emergency Handling: 4/5
    Braking: 4/5
    Headlights: 3/5
    Ride: 3/5
    Noise: 3/5
    Driving Position: 4/5
    Access: 4/5
    Controls and Displays: 5/5
    Fit and Finish: 4/5
    Trunk: 2/5
    Front Seat: 4/5
    Rear Seat: 3/5
    Automatic: Fuel Economy: 4/5 (27 mpg)
    Manual: Fuel Economy: 4/5 (30 mpg)
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