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Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra vs Dodge Ram

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  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    The '05 vs. '06 Ram in terms of ride quality, steering, and quietness were improved. The ride is less bouncy, especially models equipped with 20" wheels. The HD models benefited the most from the changes in that they're less prone to bobbing in dips and moguls.

    I've got a '06 1500 4X4 w/HEMI and a 2500 MegaCab CTD and they're both seem to be better than the '04 and '05 I replaced them for in terms frame rigidness and solidity. The Ram is vastly better than the Ford in terms of overall ride and steering, IMO. Maybe that's why the Dodge is now the longest lasting full size pick-up.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    It has been said that Dodge, for the '07 model year will do a SRT-8 version of the Ram, meaning it will get the 6.1L-425-hp version that is used in other DC vehicles. As to everything else, we'll just have to wait and see.
  • BULL

    Everything you said is wrong, including "Stick with the Chevy"

    Outboard mounted shocks are not a gimmick - trust me - they do improve ride quality, help in cornering, aid a little bit with towing, and DO work. I guess you have never driven one, but are so quick to bash. You must be a bowtie lover with blinders on.

    If you want terminal problems all the way down the line, either buy a Chevy that was made before approx 1990, or ditch it and get a Ford or a Dodge.
  • Just a good story I thought I'd let the Ford and GM owners in on. I'll be graduating with a mechanical engineering degree a year from now, I'm just getting through all of the tough engineering classes. My thermodynamics professor was a manufacturing engineer for GM for 20 years. So one Friday he drives up one day in a brand new 2005 F-150. In class we asked him why he worked for GM for so long and was buying a Ford, and his response, "You can imply what you want from that." Later we found out that he thought GM was lagging behind Ford in ride quality and Dodge in performance. However, the next Monday he's driving his Honda motorcycle, so we asked him where the F-150 was. Turns out it died on him with less than 2000 miles on it. He was stranded half of Saturday on the side of I-20 watching his nice riding Ford sit there while he called the tow truck. Needless to say, he now drives up in a beautiful silver Ram 1500 Quad Cab every day. All I'm saying is, "You can imply what you want."
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Spot on patriot. I guess I'm not the only one to have someone experience the "Built Ford Tough" F-150 choke out.
  • You raise some very good points, and are right about the Cummins TD...it is a very good engine. Watch your facts when stating information about the competition though, and what is right and wrong. The PowerStroke has had MANY problems over the past few year, one of which IS complete turbine failure. In fact, Ford has 58 class action lawsuits pending right now over that engine and F-250/350/450 combination. There are over 325 thousand units that are affected with over 77 technical issues listed for the 6.0L TD. Compare this to 14 for the cummins, and only...(wait for it)..'8' for the Duramax. I wouldn't write the Duramax off, and as far as towing, find someone with an LLY, or LBZ Duramax powered HD GMC/Chevy, and have a tow off..just don't go for slips because you'll be without a RAM at the end of the day. The 40000 mile 'melt down' is ONLY a myth and sould be concidered that. Every engine has it's bad apples produced, and none of the TD's that are in current pickups are an exception. The Cummins is concidered a 'Med-Duty' engine but is manufactured to different tolerances than anything that would go into a heavy machine or marine-industrial application. They are not at all the same engine, even though they share the same configuration and 'similar' opperating components. I am very familiar with all three major brands of domestic TD's that are currently produced, and each have their strengths and weaknesses. The Cummins 600 is a great engine, but doesn't pull well in the higher RPM, the Ford is very strong when it's not broken (amazing high RPM pull), and the Chevy seems to be quite solid as well (amazing low to midrange power, and the high RPM is good as well but not like the Ford). If I was to choose a tow rig, I would go with a Duramax/Allison combo. Can't beat the CAT like power. I manage a dept that works with almost 200 TD powered Trucks and opperators every day in an industry that works them HARD. To put this issue to rest after 30 or so forum pages of people fighting back and forth on which one of their 'pride-and-joy' is better than the other: NONE. Like I said before..they each do their own thing well. DODGE guys...pull you heads out of your bums..there is life beoned a Hemi and a Cummins, some of which is actualy better..Ford guys, admit when your current product sucks (because they do..repairs and mechanics don't lie...look it up on the internet read about it, strong frames don't mean crap when the TD's broken ALL THE F#&*'n time)..and Chevy guys, just becuase your old 350 used to rock, doesn't mean that their new stuff is anything to ride home about. Yes the D-Max is the top of the chart for numbers right now, but that doesn't mean everything. NOW!!! stop arguing and go enjoy your trucks. :mad:
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Not quite so fast redline, I happen to know that there are way more than "8" pending/current class-action law suits against GM for the Duramax diesel.I know for sure there are at least 16 in my state of New York alone, more than F-Series. So my facts were indeed valid. The Duramax is prone to turbine failure, right along with the Ford. The Isuzu-built Duramax just doesn't have the longevity the Cummins has exhibited for over 60 years in the med/heavy duty category.

    The Dodge isn't without fault, but for a tow rig, the new '06 2500/3500 CTD's are the way to go, especially if you want to stick it yourself as the Duramax 6-speed cuts torque from 620 back down 520lb-ft. May not sound like a lot, but high up in place like the Sierra Nevada's, you'll need every horse and pony you can get.

    And you're right, lets put this to bed. All of these trucks have their ups and downs, and what it virtually comes down to is brand prefrence. They all get the job done at the end of the day, but which will make it back home is the $1 million question???? :P
  • That's a superb responce blkhemi!!! I like that you have an open mind, and I can't agree more about they all have their ups and downs! I just want to correct a couple more things, and then I'm done. The '8' that I posted were 'known posted technical issues'(I guess that's the nice way of saying 'flaws'..LOL), not law-suits. I actually don't know how many law-suits GM's got going on, but I'm sure your totaly right with the 16. I'm just happy that GM dumped the 6.5 and is actually striving to work with another company just like Ford, and Dodge to provide a decent TD for the GM fans out there. Second, the Duramax is not built by Isuzu, it's was co-designed by Isuzu with General Motors. It is built by D-Max Industries in Moranie Ohio. The current HP/Tourqe numbers are 360HP at 3000 RPM and 650-660 Ft Lbs. at 1600RPM for the Allison Combo (LBZ), and a very crapy 300/520 for the 6-speed (Booooo...). The drop in numbers is due to the fact that the ZF manual can't handle the twist. That will change in the 2007 year when the new Body/Platform is introduced, along with an updated 7-speed Manual. As far as tow rig is concered..the new Dodges are totally killer! You can't go wrong with anything that can litteraly rip the tow pin right off of a 5-wheel!! Still after driving them all and appreciating each for their different qualities, I still like ripping through the RockyMountains with an 06 Chev Duramax/Allison combo, towing a 35-foot 5th wheel, and the truck barely breaking a sweat. I'm completely impressed by that. I just hope it lasts like the proven Cummins has. For today though, at this point in time, the Duramax puts a huge smile on my face, just like your Dodge does for you, and my best friends 03 Ford TD(7.3L mind you)does for him. That is all that truly matters! Thank you again for your impressive knowledge, and great responces. If I have a Dodge question..I know where to post!!!! :-)
  • ddf1ddf1 Posts: 18
    blkhemi and redline 455 you guys are right on the money. Both trucks get the job done. But if you put a duramax or cummins in front of me I would pick the duramax to drive. To me it is funner to drive the duramax.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Both of these powertrains are very decent. They get the job done right, the first time, not like having to wait until your PowerJoke gets out of the shop to move your farm equipment.

    Let's face it. It's all about brand prefrence at the end of the day. We Mopar gearheads won't have it another way. Same for the bowtie clan. And with GM set to release the much-updated Silverado line, it'll be fun to see how this war heats up again.

    BTW redline, i stand corrected about the Duramax. It was "designed" by Isuzu, not built. I heard GM is one-upping the Allison with 6-speeds to compete with the upcoming 6-speed, 700lb-ft Ram and '08 Tundra.

    I do have one question. Why does the Powerjoke still smoke upon take-off while the Cummins and Duramax are smoke-free until you really get on it? I guess that 6.0L PowerJoke ain't no different from the old 7.3L clunker it replaces, despite the switch to common-rail injection.
  • tex10tex10 Posts: 27
    Howdy im from Texas im gluing to tell why im dodge man. a long time go when I was 3 my grandfather told me storeis about my heoro Richard Petty. just king of NASCAR love that 65 Plymouth. Don’t lie bow tie paper boy.he had the best paint job. him that and hemi used to run circles around you bow tie and brown oval guys. know im 17 i have a dodge ram 1500 4 door 4.7 magnum.i can burn ruber better thin 350 small block.my truck is stock, but im going to see if i can fit a 360. get some horse power. The mopar way.
  • coontie57coontie57 Posts: 128
    Thanks for the discussion. I own a 99 Ford 250 HD diesel and the engine is just great.. HOWEVER, the shop has now worked on the tranny twice... lots of $$$$ later... So I am looking and trying to decide between the Dodge (yuck) and a Chebby with the diesel duramax. I will be buying a diesel and 3/4 ton trucks to pull my 12000lb camper. What I hear so far is very confusing. I am sure both of these will do the job and I will be happy but there must be some point or points that will separate the two makes for me. Fuel mileage would be a very important issue that would influence me one way or another. My friend just bought a Dodge after owning a Duramax that he had problems with but the mileage is just terrible. Last weekend he got about 11.5 mpg coming to my house pulling a flatbed trailer with a medium sized tractor on it. 7-8000lbs maybe. I suspect my old Ford 250 would have gotten 15 or so.

    My personl ownership of Chrysler products was favorable even though Consumer Report said it was horrible. I currently own two GM products a Buick Park Ave and a 1500 series Chevy... both are great.. The Ford HD drives and handles great but now with 2 transmission problems behind me I am just very nervous about pulling the camper again. My problem with Dodges is probably very personal..my former employer purchased the cheapest junk that Chrysler Corp. could make... from Jeeps to Dodge / Plymouth vehicles... I know this is not representive of what was available from a dealer but that's my experience anyway. What junk! I am sure this is poisoning my rational decision making process.

    Anyway I appreciate the more honest and informational posts while the ones with just opinions and such are not needed. I will try to keep my discussions to facts as best I can and not add in my personal feelings on such things as the Dodges.

    So anyone that has real information that will help me decided between the two would be appreciated.

    Since at this time neither mfg's are making any real deals on financing etc I will probably just watch this site until late summer/fall and pick up a new one... Getting a chevy with the new body style makes some sense. Heck my 90 model chevvy looks about like the new ones. I guess owning one for 17 years might be long enough..
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    I was the national fleet manager for a large business machine company in Rochester, New York for a number of years. During that time we transitioned from GM light-duty pickups to Fords and Dodges because of high cost of ownership issues.

    Perhaps the latest generation of GM pickups will change my mind. We have recently made a small buy of 2006 Chevy 1500 class PUs. Our previous F150s were very good, but the new versions are not so good.

    In the meantime the RAM 1500 and 2500s that we own (2002-2005s) have proved to be exceptionally solid and extremely reliable. These are all gas models, but in my experience the Cummins engine is in a league of it's own.

    Most people I talk to or know are getting much better than 11.5 MPG with their Cummins equiped RAMs. I would survey some more Cummins owners before rushing to the conclusion that 11.5 is normal for that engine. Also, judging fuel consumption on a new motor is usually misleading. The Cummins is an exceptionally tight diesel motor. It may need 10,000 miles before you start to see "normal" numbers.

    For '06 the Cummins equiped RAM comes with a new very heavy 4-speed 48RE fully adaptive automatic transmission. If you wait another year the RAM will have a new 6-speed heavy automatic built off of the extremely reliable 545RFE transmission.

    Good luck and best regards,
    Dusty
  • coontie57coontie57 Posts: 128
    If you have the listing for the site you reference I would appreciate if you would post it as I am unfamiliar with it.

    c57
  • coontie57coontie57 Posts: 128
    What my Ohio friend told me about the 06 Dodge mileage was that when it was new he got 14.5 with the diesel driving to Florida towing nothing. Then 2 months later he drove down to NC pulling a trailer with a tractor on it.. then he got 11.5 mpg.. Those are awful numbers when diesel is $3 a gallon. Maybe he will do better when the engine has 10K on it or better.
  • coontie57coontie57 Posts: 128
    Thanks so much for the timely response. I will go read this now.

    c57
  • coontie57coontie57 Posts: 128
    I have read it and printed most off. If that doesn't help a person make up their mind nothing will.

    Now the question is does a person wait for the 07's to come out and see what Chevy has waiting in the wings or buy an OLD 06 style.. ??

    Might have to see what INCENTIVES will come out in the next few months.

    Then its bye bye Ford.

    They make it sound like their 7.2% grade in California was really a big test.. I know there are two grades in Eastern TN in the 7%+ range and lots in WNC... I only ran across one like that driving to Alaska last summer and it was coming out of Skagway.. Seems like lots of it was 7% running up to 11% but I might have forgotten.it was also really long... like 20 miles or so pulling UPGRADE... I have CRS now so the figures are only my gueses....estimates.... Both the Dodges and Chevy's ran around me on those grades with my 99 Ford diesel and I was only towing 9000lbs or so. It doesn't seem like the new Chevy would have a problem with the grades and my new 12000 5th wheel. I know those I talked to last summer really liked their Chevrolets but then so did the Dodge owners..

    This article really helped me!! Thanks again.
  • coontie57coontie57 Posts: 128
    I would agree. I wonder how you find out when the HD is going to come out... Surely by Sept or so.??
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    My two cents: Performance aside in my experience the Cummins have been more reliable than the diesel engines from Ford or GM. The highly touted Allison transmissions have a reputation for noisy operation and irratic shifts after collecting some miles. On GMs, there's a problem with the rest of the truck. Past GMs have been the most unreliable. Our current '06s, although better than GMs of the past, have still collected a fair amount of downtime for various component quality and assembly issues. GMs have been the first to go rust. That and piston slap have resulted in significant loss for us at resale time.

    If it wasn't for the inordinate amount of problems were having with the F150 series right now, the GM versions would be the worst. And at the moment the RAM series is our best performer for reliability. Only random electrical problems keep these vehicles from being as good as a Tundra. Next year the Cummins equiped RAM gets a six-speed automatic and a horsepower and torque boost. I haven't heard anything about Ford introducing six-speed auto, but it wouldn't surprize me that one's in the works.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • Amd another reason why a 6 cylnder diesal will out pull an 8.1L duramax is because it is a 6. All 6 cylander engines are able to rev much higher than an 8 cylander. So rather then the duramax towing at low end RPM'S the cummins is able to tow at low revves AND at very high revolutions, making it far more torquey
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    That's not correct.

    The Cummins revs much lower than the Duramax, Powerstroke, or any of the gasoline V8s... its horsepower peak is just 2900 rpm. The torque comes from the piston stroke, which is much longer in the Cummins 6-cylinder.

    The Duramax is the 6.6 liter, by the way - the 8.1L is the gasoline engine.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    The Cummins does not rev higher than any of it's competitor's engines. This is not why diesels were designed. Low-end torque and power are the key factors in how diesel engines operate and are able to pull such heavy loads. Powerstroke, Cummins, and Duramax are only within hundreds of pounds of what they can pull. Some have higher payload capacities(Chevy,Ford), others work best at towing (Dodge),due to the incredible powertrains and unsurpassed ride control.

    As stated before, if automatic trans is a must and shift quality is a top priority, then the Ford or Chevy may be a better option than the Dodge, with it only having 4 ratios in it's tranny, but it is still remarkably stout and dependable. But for rowing your own, Dodge's 6-speed is about as good as it gets. And with a new 6.7L Cummins with a reported 700lbs-ft of torque and close to 400-hp mated to a new 6-speed auto coming for '07/'08, it's going to be a different ball game, with all of the manufacturers upgrading their powertrains...
  • Nothing could be further from the truth. I just bought an 06 ram 2500 trx off road. It averaged 15.4 mpg for the first 1000 to 1500 miles, now it is up to 17mpg (didn't put a tonneu cover on it yet). Dealers will tell you anywhere from 18 to 21 average but asking around it seems to get no more that 19 tops (which isn't bad for a truck of that size) I drive about 150 mls a day 50% of the time with plenty of weight on the box (half its capacity and more)
    Test drove chevy and ford and I have no regrets whatsoever, VERY QUIET, unlike ford 6.0 :) :) :)
  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    To build on your comment regarding upgraded drivetrains, the 2007 RAMs will be getting new six-speed automatic transmissions.

    Regards,
    Dusty
  • au1994au1994 Posts: 813
    My .02. Just got an 06 regular cab Ram and the comfort of the seats is better than the 04 4 Runner I traded in on it. Ride is only slightly worse over uneven pavement because of the lighter back-end. Could not be happier with the truck

    FWIW...I did not even consider the Chevy. Looks OK, but rode in one less than a year old and it squeeked and rattled like a 20 yr old farm truck. Plus it was not as comfortable as the Ram. F-150 looks good, but the Ram was a better deal. Not just because of the incentives either.

    2013 335i Sport Line Alpine White over Coral Red w/Black Trim

    2005 330cic ZHP Monaco Blue over Natural Brown w/Black Trim

  • dustykdustyk Posts: 2,926
    I'm a little surprised that you think the seat comfort is better in the RAM than the FourRunner. I've always found the RAM seats to be very comfortable. But in all honesty I think the F150 and Chevy/GMC seats are okay as well. Maybe I have that universal body they use to design seats!

    My son home from Iraq just picked me up this morning for breakfast in his buddy's 2005 Chevy 1500. It only had 16,000 miles on it and no rattles. But most GMs seemed to squeak, buzz, and rattle a lot as they get years and miles.

    I hear from owners of of competive models all the time about how bad the gas mileage is in RAMs and how much better it is in GMs, especially. Well, this Chevy does no better than 16 on the highway according to it's owner, and 13-14 around town. My son has had use of this truck for two weeks and he said the best it's turned in was 16.7, and that's easy driving. Most guys driving Hemi RAMs do that or a little better.

    Bests,
    Dusty
  • coontie57coontie57 Posts: 128
    It really all depends on how you drive them ... my new Chevy diesel got 18.8 in the mtns of NC last week... 250 miles or so... but I babied her. I didn't go over 65mph..

    I pulled the bass boat down to Jocassee last saturday another 200 mil trip... got only 13.1... hope that improves when its warn in a bit
  • au1994au1994 Posts: 813
    Seat comfort seems to be as subjective as styling. You are correct in that not only body size, but body proportion has a lot to do with it. I know people that are 6'6" and are comfortable in their small sedans, but my dad is 6'2" and claimed he could not fit in the 4Runner.

    2013 335i Sport Line Alpine White over Coral Red w/Black Trim

    2005 330cic ZHP Monaco Blue over Natural Brown w/Black Trim

  • guy7guy7 Posts: 9
    Before making my decision of which brand truck to buy, I did research on the brands. I owned a 86 6.2 diesel. Everybody told my how terrible 6.2 was. My experience was very positive. Had a 6.5 lots of problems . Bought a 5.9 CTD still have it after 14 hard years.Has rattles,rust and some electrical concerns, but still starts even in frigid temperatures. So I purchased a new 06 Ram CTD. All the manufacturers have a decent product,I beleive it is brand loyalty that tends to sway our decision. I was a ford Man, But have found positive experiences with both G.M and Dodge.Had My ford in the shop so many times thatI decided to schedule regular appointments with the service manager. My friends are still making hear it. Why would you buy another dodge? Quite simply, I was satisfied with the first one. The Cummins engine is a proven performer. I hope my new truck does as well or better than the first. As an aside I had a ride in an 06 duramax, that truck really pulls hard. But when I found out that Isuzu only designed the engine and did not actually build the newer motors, I lost a little faith. So all the stats and consumer reports wont change the minds of some people. I hope I made the right decision... Time will tell...
  • Congrats on your new truck. I think the perfect truck is the one you feel right about; and it is most definitely a personal opinion. I for one found my perfect truck!!!, an '06 2500 TRX4 ram CTD. It is my first Dodge and I got to tell you, 26K miles after I'm still trying to find something wrong... and I just can't. I love my truck. paid 34K for it and it is worth every penny. I installed the Jake brake on it @ about 15K miles.
    There is absolutely no question about the Cummins engine just being great; 0 recalls so far. I have had Fords and GM and have nothing bad to say about the ones I owned. As far as cranking the engine, I have never had any problems whatsoever, even in the coldest days.
    Mine is a crew cab, not the megacab. I personally think the rear cab should have been a little bigger, but is no biggy.
    You will like this truck as much or even more than your old CTD, I guarantee it!
    Good luck and enjoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;)
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