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Should Buick build a new under 20K vehicle?



  • A cheap Buick may be interesting, just as long as its standards are not compromised at all.

    Buick Engines - Original engine in Buick Performance Parts Catalog by TA Performance
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Well you and I disagree but I respect your opinion. I think Buick, should be on the $30-50K range ;) It needs to be a brand like Lexus but have Lincoln prices. It doesn't need a self parking system but should have features like a Bose 5.1 surround sound, navigation with voice recognition, swivel headlamps, perhaps adaptive cruise control, adaptive headlamps, magneride, ventilated seats, massaging seats w/ heat of course, high performance engines with premium V6's and V8's, ya know everyday usable "gadgets and technology" ;)

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,118
    Well, as Roger Smith would say, you can buy a $20K Buick. It's a '05 or '06. Kidding aside, I agree with you, rockylee, on Buick's positioning in the marketplace, although I'm not a fan of all the technology you mentioned. Lexus is a more logical competitor for Buick than BMW, for example. It seems to me that GM is pointing Buick towards Lexus (after Toyota/Lexus decided to focus on making a better Buick), while Cadillac goes after the German luxury brands. It seems like a sound strategy to me. The jury is still out on whether GM can execute on it.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Why thank-you hpmctorque :)

    I named some of the technology's found on my buddy's Toyota Avalon ;) Buick needs to exceed Toyota, in gadgets for gosh sakes. I'm glad you agree with me on Buick's direction. The Lucerne will be RWD for model year 2011. I'd like for them to speed that up a bit and get it here by 2009. I suspect it will come out in January 2010 as a 2011 model. GM, lately like to release cars in the first quarter to get a extra long model year. I think it's smart business to do it this way. :) A $45-50K RWD Lucerne that feels like a Lexus LS 460 at Lincoln prices would be a "W" in the Buick Column. I have to decide if I want to risk buying a GMC Sierra Denali next month and find out in a year or so that my beloved Buick Velite will get made. If that happens to me I will be smoking mad :mad:

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,118
    Yeah, Chevy, Saturn, and Pontiac (G-5 and 4 cylinder G-6) have the <20K segment covered for GM, so it wouldn't make sense for Buick to crowd in there too.

    On your Denali/Velite quandary, they're totally different vehicles. The RWD Lucerne would come closer to Denali, functionally, than the Velite, which, as a convertible, isn't all that spacious. Besides, as you probably know, Lutz supposedly nixed the Velite.
  • rockyleerockylee Posts: 14,011
    Yeah he did nixed the Velite but like 62vettefp, reported that Lutz, has strong feelings for the Velite, and originally planned on bringing it to market with the Enclave but money was tight and it got axed. Lutz, still has a pic of the Velite on his office wall so I'm optomistic enough to think I still could get my dream car yet. :)

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,118 China. I think it's called the Spark (?).
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,590
    Looking back from 50 years later, it is easy to say that what GM should have done is made Chevy the small car brand, with Pontiac perhaps a midsize, leaving the full size brands as Oldsmobile (low priced), Buick (mid priced) and Cadillac.

    Sorry I'm way late in responding to this, but I haven't checked in on this thread in awhile. I've actually heard theories about what would've happened if GM had stuck to the old Alfred Sloane hierarchy. The problem though, is that GM just got too big in the 50's and 60's for that to work. They came up with all those various models and overlap because there was a perceived need for them. People were a lot more brand-loyal back then, so if Buick had never built the '61 Special, it's not a guarantee that all those buyers would have bought F-85's or Tempests. And if there was no Pontiac Catalina, it's not a given that all the Catalina buyers would have just gone and bought Impalas, LeSabres, or Deltas.

    IMO, GM knew exactly what they were doing in the 50's and 60's. However, in the 70's, the overlap started to get out of hand. For example, Pontiac overstepped their bounds with the 1971 Grand Ville, pushing into Electra/98 territory. And cars like the Nova-based Omega and Apollo, and especially the Monza-based Starfire and Skyhawk, probably could have been done without. And especially, once downsizing became all the rage, and increased focus on aerodnymics and badge-engineering and cost-cutting made the differences in the cars much more superficial, then at that point, it may have benefitted GM to go back to a more Sloane-like hierarchy.

    But if they tried it back in the 60's, then people would be whining because they couldn't get a big Chevy like the Impala or Caprice, or a luxurious Pontiac like the Bonneville Brougham, or a smaller Olds like the Cutlass, or a cheaper big Buick like the LeSabre.
  • harrycheztharrychezt Posts: 405 - buick/

    Some like it, some don't. I like it.
    Some people are too good to drive certain makes,lol.
    Oh well. That's their loss, lol.

    Like if you say Hyundai, and mention Azera, they laughed. But Edmunds ain't laughin'. It's one of their Editors Picks for 07, beating Avalon, and maybe some Buicks, etc?

    Same for Sonata. When the new one came out in 06,some people laughed, but.... MotorWeek picked the 06 as their midsized sedan of 06, over All of them.
    You can take a "mere" car, fix it up, tune it right, add some insulation, tweak the engine, and actually have a better, more upscale car, without the upscale pricing!

    I know young people who have said they WOULD consider This Excelle(if done well enough), but not "an old man's Buick".
    Can sell an old man a young person's car, but not a young kid and old person's (type of) car!"
    How true!

    The avg. age for Buick buyers is what, 62?
    Olds tried to "youth-ify" itself with the Alero, and it looked decent enough, and was selling, but Olds is now gone.
    (PS: sorry if I posted this rant before here, or soemthing akin 2 a hurry, no time to look back).
    Take Care/Not Offense.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,118
    If timing is indeed everything, maybe, with gasoline at around $4/gallon, the time is right to introduce a 4-cylinder compact Buick. However, as a premium brand, it should be a well appointed, luxurious model, with good performance, and with prices starting in the mid-$20,000s.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,590
    Let's just hope they don't take a Cobalt and slap a vertical grille on it. Or worse, an Aveo! :sick:
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,118
    I don't think that's in the cards, because the rebadged Aveo will be a Pontiac and the Cobalt is at the end of its run. However, a premium version of the 2010 Cruze, if done right, might work, because GM's Delta 2 platform for this Cobalt replacement is probably competitive with the Jetta, for example. To succeed, though, the interior and exterior of the Buick would have to be visibly more upscale than the Cruze. It would also help if it had one or more significant features that won't be available on the Cruze. Also, if Buick does this, there should be no Pontiac or Saturn counterpart.

    The fact that the Cruze will be a little larger than the Cobalt might help the business case for a Buick based on Delta 2 global platform.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,118
    Since the 2010 LaCrosse is moving a little upscale, and it's highly unlikely that Buick will introduce a new under 20K model, maybe substituting 25K for 20K would make this topic more relevant. In other words, should Buick offer a model below the LaCrosse in the future?
  • berriberri Posts: 4,000
    If GM is going to truly simplify its product line then I don't think so. That should be for Chevy.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,118
    Good point, berry, Chevy or maybe Pontiac. With the greater emphasis on luxurious small cars, though, a well appointed and optioned Cobalt-size near-luxury car, though not a rebadge, might be appealing. Maybe the forthcoming Cruze platform could be used for such a car in the Buick lineup.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    Maybe you're missing the fact that GM has spent the $4B it received in Dec. already? This question is like asking someone who is in intensive care, how they would like their hair styled. :P This topic is ridiculous! Kill It!
  • berriberri Posts: 4,000
    I don't agree. Maybe GM will need a formal restructuring, but I think they will be around for a long time. Heck, lots of people make it through intensive care - be optimistic!
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    The way GM management is dealing with this crisis, i don't see them making it. No sense of urgency. It seems there only plan is to somehow wish for 2005 again. They need to toss out the surgeon and bring in the butcher to make the cuts.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,118
    The butcher? Bad analogy if you're talking about survival.
  • kernickkernick Posts: 4,072
    I don't agree. Maybe GM will need a formal restructuring, but I think they will be around for a long time. Heck, lots of people make it through intensive care - be optimistic!

    I'm not optimistic or pessimistic - I'm realistic. But I think you need to reread my post - I was not saying GM or Buick are dead. I'm saying they are gravely ill. They ar ebeing kept alive with tax money; and it is uncertain how long Congress will agree to give the Big3 special status.

    The point is that GM is concentrating on shrinking brands and models, and postponing some new models. Given that one or more options is to eliminate Buick even if GM stays in business, why for heaven's sake do you think they should be considering adding a model?

    Every second and ounce of brainpower at GM should be focused on how to survive the next few months, and the next couple of years in an absolutely terrible economy for car sales.

    If you want a dose of reality I heard this morning on ABC, the banks are broke again - back to Sep. status. besides what Obama has pledged in stimulus, the banks are going to need an additional $1 - 1.5 TRILLION $.
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