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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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  • ontopontop Posts: 279
    The unions have screwed up everything they've touched. They'll bankrupt GM and Ford very soon. Watch. When we pay a guy $28 an hour to sit home an watch TV there is obviously gonna be a problem down the line. The auto industry will never be able to sustain the wage levels the way they are cause of the global competition.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Yeah especially if we keep the pro-global yuppies in power. If you couldn't tell I'm anti-globalization. I don't want my country's standard of living getting flushed down the toilet so a select few can make billions at the expense of the overall good of my country. Our fore-fathers would roll over in their grave if they could see what the people in power have done to this great country.

    A few trade laws repealed and tariffs enforced would stop the bleeding of american manufactoring ;)

    Rocky
  • reddogsreddogs Posts: 353
    You are 100% correct, Bill Clinton openned the gates wide open and let the flood from China begin and told us "we would be selling to all these billions of consumers in China", so much for that...... :mad:
  • I truely care about my fellow american and want he/she to earn a fair wage, benefits, retirement, which should be entitled to all people living in our great country.

    And what exactly is your definition of 'fair wage'? Some kids go to school, struggle to get into a good college , take loans to pay steep tutions, get into a financial services firm, work for whatever hours are required, pay $160+ a month for healthcare (with deductibles), no pensions but only 401(k) and can potentially get fired at the drop of a hat.

    Some kids chill out at school, grind through high school, get a job as a UAW worker, free healthcare for the entire clan for life, iron clad pensions, no firing, get paid for not working yada yada yada.

    You can maybe find 100,000 people to do the first job. You can find 2 billion people to so the second job.

    So how on earth is that fair wage / fair compensation. Wake up brother. Communism is dead. America led the free world into globalization and that is the future of the world. If there are a billion people who can do an autoworkers job for less, they will do it till such time their wages come up and match those of the others, which will of course go down.

    If building a car requires skills which a person in Mexico can provide at a quarter the wages and benefits of an American, power be with him. If the American car worker believes that he is worth more than the low worker wages, he can do something else. This is a free country end everyone has the freedom to do whatever he wants to do. Cross-class mobility is way better here than anywhere else in the world. People will have to live with what they deserve in the new world, not with what they have come to expect.

    Coming back to cars, all I care about is how good a car is. If you are so concerned about foreigners not making any money, turn in the entire mortgage you took out. A foreigner is making money out of it. Sell you car (American/Korean whatever) coz some foreigner has loaned you that money and is making a profit out of it. The world is too mixed up to be able to figure out the origin of money.

    Cars need to be purchased of how good you feel about it. If American brands make you feel better, go ahead. There is nothing called and America / Japanese or whatever car. Most probably most of the money GM raises is from a market where inverstors are from all over the world. Ultimately any money made flows up to them. A car is not just about where a part was made or assembled. It starts way far behind. But if assembling is what makes you happy, be happy.
  • Our fore-fathers would roll over in their grave if they could see what the people in power have done to this great country.

    Absolutely. Our forefathers would roll over in their graves to see that descendants of entreprenurial, hard working, spirited, risk - taking, focussed, creative ancestors are lazy bums who want to put no effort into building their lives but expect everything to come to them at no cost.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I'm not going to make much of a excuse for Bill. I will say this. He could of added more human rights language to the "fast tracked" NAFTA bill introduced by George Bush and congress before he left office. Ross Perot was exactly right and the Unions confirmed his charts of the american economy going down as true. Wasn't Ross Perot right ?????
    I'd say so. ;)

    Bill Clinton signed it (NAFTA) into law unchanged which left the unions feeling back stabbed for supporting him, after their canidate former Gov. of California Jerry Brown bit the dust. The next great Union canidate is none other than John Edwards whom wants to repeal trade treaties and NAFTA & CAFTA since he believes it's doing grave danger to the American Worker and american buisness that has to compete with cheap foreign made goods. I think GM and Bill Ford will support him.(Edwards) Even if it's done secretly.

    They also feel betrayed by Dubya because he did nothing to the oil company's and their high gas gouging prices that killed the american automobile industry into losses. Bill Ford went to President Bush and asked for help. He recieved a cold shoulder from our President. :mad:

    But yes Slick Willy's biggest blunder outside of his sex scandel is NAFTA. I like Bill Clinton, but the NAFTA blunder makes me hate him at the same time. :mad:

    Rocky
  • jlawrence01jlawrence01 Posts: 1,828
    Gee, I thought that EDMUNDS.com was an AUTOMOTIVE forum instead a "bash Wal-Mart" forum.

    I guess that was the good old days ... before certain posters showed up.
  • Sandy, your exactly right. Unions reward the wrong people in many cases. People in this country now THINK they DESERVE a life with a house, two cars and a boat. They are ENTITLED to $35 an hour simply because they are American. They have taken out the incentive to get a good education and replaced it by paying menial labor too much because they are union. If everyone thought like Union boys there would be no Engineers (that would require college) to design the vehicles they build. If you don't like white collar "yuppies" earning to much, risk your own capital and start a company of your own, just like Henry Ford. Most don't because it's easier to hire on to someone else's risk and then [non-permissible content removed] at them for being successful.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Do you have a so-called American Made car that you like or drive ?????

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    One last comment:

    My father has acquired lots of skills either through college education, military, and on the job training that GM/Delphi paid for.
    Shouldn't they count as something ?????

    I however do understand where you are coming from.
    Alot of americans can't really afford $80K+ in college debt to acquire education and eat. I have college broke friends that are borderline poverty.
    I think the best way to get a college education is to work for a company that will sponsor one to go to school. However this isn't available to everyone. I guess if you go to school and get a bachelors degree in a discipline and the job market offers you $25,000 a yr. and you owe $60K in college loans how much further ahead are you ???? Just because one goes to college and acquires a degree doesn't make you BETTER than the guy making a car part at Delphi or GM whom acquired a SKILL with either company sponsored on the job training and classes, or a certificate at a trade school.
    Both (Bachelors and new job skill) should be rewarded respectively.

    Alot of my friends who have college degrees don't even practice in their discipline. If they got a job out of their discipline, are you saying they should still get handsomely compensated because they got a piece of paper saying I went through 4 years of college, but I never worked anywhere in my life ??????

    I've seen in my short life of 27 years, people that had Mommy and Daddy pay for their college and never worked a real job, except maybe mowing mommy's lawn. ;) They just simpily went to college and got drunk 3 or more times a week and showed up and did some homework. If I was a employer, I would want someone with real life working expierence. I'd promote or enhance the guy working his or hers tail off at my company, not some young whipper snapper fresh out of college that doesn't understand what's going on at the bottom level. I think this is why General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, and corporate america was also so sucessful in the past because ordinary Joes would get promoted to high level positions eventually if they were willing to go the extra mile and take company paid college and training. ;)

    However we can agree to disagree which is fine by me. ;)

    Respectfully,

    Rocky
  • First off the Buick is an American car, where does the money go? To an American company. Furthermore, just because the guy who ran you off the road was in an American automobile, what does that have to do with whether you should buy American cars or not? I've had plenty of stupid drivers who have almost caused me to get into accidents driving many different makes and models of cars.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Would buying a Saab since it's 100% GM owned be buying an american car. Just want your opinion since I've contemplated it a few times. :)

    Rocky
  • Obviously for your sedan you have not considered a saab 9-3, a company that is entirely owned and built by GM.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    Why do we assume that autoworkers are lazy?
    And that managers and marketers aren't?
  • That wont happen because the import brands will always have a market in their country of origin, where consumers tend to only buy vehicles produced by their own countrys automakers.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I take it as a insult. My father and relatives are genuine, hard working, good patriotic americans, that happen to work for GM/Delphi. Most have college degrees or skills acquired from comapny sponsored classes to learn new skills. Yes their are a few bad apples in every pot. Not just GM. I've worked places where people got raises based on merit. Brown nosers always got more merit raises and happen to be the least productive. I won't go there since it makes me still angry. ;)

    Since GM workers don't have to get raises based on brown nosing then they are looked down upon by some I guess. Maybe that's where all the hatred comes from ????? :confuse:

    Rocky
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    "First off the Buick is an American car, where does the money go? To an American company."

    There's an outdated way of looking at things... Check Wall street for that answer...

    So if it's a GM built in Mexico, that's OK? But a Honda built in Ohio by NON-japanese labor is wrong???? :confuse:

    Keep touting the good ol' Garbage Motors all you want. Doesn't make a BIT of difference to me or any other person who chooses otherwise. Not YOUR money to spend, not YOUR decision...

    "Furthermore, just because the guy who ran you off the road was in an American automobile, what does that have to do with whether you should buy American cars or not?"

    :confuse: That's not my reason for buying what I've bought. And if you follow my posts on Edmunds, I have given props to where necessary (Fusion triplets, Chrysler, Saturn Sky, HHR...) Doesn't mean I am going to defect to "domestic only" because you said to...

    Once again, Welcome to a FREE America, enjoy your stay...
  • 50 years ago we were sold the American Dream as we watched TV. We ran after it.
    They were too poor, disadvantaged or enslaved by totalitarian regimes to prosper.
    Today, 50 years later, they have seen the dream on some tv somewhere and are running after it full speed.
    We are complacent, overweight and visionless and preparing enslavement.
  • Couldn't have been put better.

    Incidentally, most of the 'treaties' and global trade mechanisms like WTO were proposed, set up and created by the developed nations. The idea was definitely very self-serving. The developed nations would export all the industrial goods into the nations without industrial infrastructure and make money.

    Today, CocaCola China buys water there, sets up and sells Coke there and the profit is pocketed in the US. Intel makes processors in Taiwan, sells them in India and pockets the profits here. Same goes with McDonalds, Levis, Apple, Microsoft, GE and wait, GM and Ford too. GM and Ford make the completely anti noises when they operate in other countries. There they cry for greater access for foreign companies and less domestic protectionism.

    That is the beauty of globalization, as expected by the multinationals (mostly US based). However, as Morpheus said in Matrix, fate it seems wasnt without a sense of irony. That labour could be made a commodity just like industrial goods never figures in the calculation of developed countries I guess. And that is hitting back with a vengeance.

    The Pandora's box is now open. Unless auto workers here prove that they are somehow way more skilled or productive than autoworkers elsewhere, wages and lifestyles will continue to converge.

    And as far as the American debate goes, this country is currently running a current account deficit. That means we are consuming more than we make and someone is funding that. Someone who is not American. In other words we are living on borrowed money. If buying American on borrowed non American money makes someone feel awesome then well, good for you.

    50 years ago we were sold the American Dream as we watched TV. We ran after it.
    They were too poor, disadvantaged or enslaved by totalitarian regimes to prosper.
    Today, 50 years later, they have seen the dream on some tv somewhere and are running after it full speed.
    We are complacent, overweight and visionless and preparing enslavement.
  • as long as it does not require a special degree, training, etc..
    I posted a response earlier, but took it down(even though no one told me to).
    Why? Well, I am trying not to be a nasty individual on here, or get banned.

    I will say this: Big3, International DO NOT hire direct hire unless you know someone, a relative, at thier plants.
    That is call Nepotisim, NOT COOL.

    Honda, on the other hand, is expanding their Ohio plant, and advertised in the local papers, and No Pre-requisites(like, is you mom, uncle, brother working here).

    What's more American? A company that refuses to let ou fill out an application, unless mom works there, or a company that has Open Door Policy! Open Door Policy, to me(A disabled American veteran).
    When I need a hand(a good job) in 95, when jobs were plentiful, i was told to take a hike.

    That does not mean I still would not consider a Big3 vehicle, despite them refusing to let me try for a job cleaning their restrooms, even.

    PS: I THOUGHT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO GET OFF OF THIS ATTACK EACH OTHER NONSENSE. NO ONE READ ANYMORE?
    PT already said.......Let's(including me) try to follow rules, cool?
    ;)
  • I just got tired of people going crazy on here for paces that refuse to hire you unless you have connections on the inside.
    :mad:
    And like I said, there prerogative to hire that way. they do the same at a drink/candy company , local company.
    Heard they had a job, through the grapevine. I went, asked if they needed a driver, and they said we aren't hiring"... I told them who sent me, and said, "yeah, we're hiring, but you got to know someone here who is a driver already for us" , and then they tried to smooth over their reply, etc.
    I just left. Small towns are notoriously bad about Nepotism/friends and family only. :mad:

    I went to school, Business degree, 2 years, emphasis on Commercial Arts. No jobs. Even had VA looking for 1 year.

    So, guess janitor job is good enough for this DAV. :confuse:

    It is bad when a small company does not hire due to Nepotism, but large companies, auto and truck companies, etc.... :confuse:

    Anyhow, GM owns Daewoo, along with Suzuki(owns 14.9%, and some Chinese company owns like 9%?). So an American and a Japanese company each sell S Korean cars now.

    That should tell the story about "what's American" these days.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Nepotism, used to be the good ol' days. Now they try to hire dumb people who shouldn't be qualified to work at McDonalds, let alone GM. The reason why they used to hire people that had to know somebody was a mutual trust between current employee and company. The company assumed that if they hired Joes, relative they would get a good employee that really wanted to work their. Joes relative would have some insight on the job before he took the job.
    I can understand your frusteration if you don't have inside connections. I've been blessed to have this once happen to me. Both the company and I were obviously happy with the outcome. ;)

    Rocky
  • thanks 4 explaining that. I had just thought that maybe a guy with nearly 11 years of military service could get a job, other than at restaurants, or janitor jobs, or Wal-Mart.
    :confuse:

    Here we go digressing again, off the subject.

    I will stop here.
    Later.
    DAV
    83-94
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    DAV,

    I'm sorry you can't get a good job after serving 11 yrs. in the military. That's ashame. How old are you ??? What branch of the military were you in ???? Would you be interested in a para-military job ???? I would like to know if you have a degree or skill in a certain discipline ????

    I might beable to help you because of your military service. ;) I got a possible job for you if your willing to move to Amarillo, Tx (West Texas) area or atleast a lead depending on your background. :)

    Lemme know if your interested
    If so I will list my e-mail address
    Rocky
  • I think the best way to get a college education is to work for a company that will sponsor one to go to school.

    Outsource it. Go to India, where you can get a very decent education for a lot less. And, those degrees are recognized in this country.
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,196
    Hokey smoke, Rocky! You're right on! What the heck good is an education if you have no skills? Nobody gives a darn how many Shakespeare sonnets you know. I think I'd rather my kid go to trade school to learn to be a plumber or electrician. Heck, I know few people who are going to call some guy in China to fix their toilet.

    When I went to school, kids did far more partying than studying. I went to one college reunion and it was quite obvious I did better than any of them. One former classmate was living in a trailer park. Shoot, even when I first got out of school I found it tough to get a job. I was driving a taxicab for the first six months following school. I also worked a variety of jobs for 80+ hours a week that would've made a poultry plant worker's job seem prestigious. I was wondering, "I went to school for this?"
    Kids, a college degree isn't the magic bullet it once was!
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,962
    Today's bachelor's degree is our grandparents high school diploma. Hell, sometimes I think I should have gone into plumbing or HVAC or something, I'd probably make more than in my office job.

    On another note, I saw someone saying they "bought American" when they bought an 8 year old Saturn. They didn't seem to understand that buying a USED American car doesn't help the market. This person is also a shrill pseudopatriot, FWIW.
  • carlisimocarlisimo Posts: 1,280
    "They didn't seem to understand that buying a USED American car doesn't help the market. This person is also a shrill pseudopatriot, FWIW."

    I went to a Nissan dealership to get parts for old Sentra. One of the guys there tried to get me in a 350z. His last attempt to convince me was "the economy needs it!"

    Sorry. I went to college and did study something useful (and hard... I regret partying so little), but the payoff isn't immediate.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla MarylandPosts: 701
    Sounds exactly like how American factories were back between 1880-1920's.

    And it only took child labor laws, unions, and actual enforcement of the law to fix it...

    Any bets on whether the 'worker's paradise' of Communist China will do the same for it's workers?
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,052
    I went to the Chevy dealer and paid $41.40 for a power window switch for my '85 Silverado. So I guess I helped the market, in a very small way! :shades:
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