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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?



  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 8,840
    Camaro: In use 1967-2002, and 2010-now. Total: 39 years.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    enough political talk

    Fair enough, and true. I didn't name the candidate, at least.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 7,249
    So what was the reason for the 8 year death?

    Were they trying to build up pent up demand for the Camaro?
    2016 Audi TTS 2.0T quattro AWD. 2016 Kia Optima LX 1.6T FWD. Wife 2015 VW Golf Sportwagen TDI SE DSG FWD.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 8,840
    They decided the capacity could be better used on another project, obviously.

    Wasn't the conversation here that GM always changes model names because of 'bad karma' from the old names? Obviously, if that were the case here, the new Camaro would have been called something else.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,608
    Camaro is fading again. Sales are down for October 16% from October 2011. In fact GM is fading again. Caddy may as well shut the doors. If not for the Mexican made SRX they would have nothing much to keep them going.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 8,840
    edited November 2012
    How did Camaro compare to Mustang sales this month?

    And isn't rather early to shut the doors on the ATS? Sheesh.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,608
    Mustang was up in Oct 8.8% and 17% for the year. I don't know about ATS, something about entry level luxury brands that seems odd to me. ATS may have stolen sales from the CTS which was down 40% from last October. I think it will take more than 1200 ATS a month to keep Cadillac going. Lincoln is dying as well.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490

    A couple of months out of date, but the graphs give a fairly good long-term history of the Camaro, Mustang and Challenger.

    Draw your own conclusions as that the data signifies...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The trend is interesting, Camaro and Mustang move together, but Challenger has gone in the opposite direction.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 8,840
    Here's current information from the same website. Camaro outsold Mustang by 25% in October 2012: ustang-challenger
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,608
    According to Ford site, 5328 Mustangs were sold in October.
    GM site says 5122 Camaros sold in October.
    I think the Camaro fan boy site uses less than factual data to promote their agenda. ightpar/sectioncontainer/par/download/file.res/Deliveries%20Oct%202012.pdf
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 8,840
    I find it hard to believe that they are just making the numbers up. What I find even more amazing is that on November 1 there are already published numbers that would include sales from...yesterday.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,690
    edited November 2012
    October sales data is out, MotorTrend has reported the Mustang outsold the Camaro for the month.

    Also, the link you posted shows a date of October 2nd. How can they know what October sales will be on the second day of the month;)

    Following the link from that page looks like they are referencing September sales not October.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 8,840
    My guess is that although it says October, it's data from September on that Camaro site.

    Frankly, with the Mustang having had a styling refresh since the Camaro has come out, I'd be surprised the Mustang wouldn't have outsold it for a long time. That has not happened as a matter of course.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Sales are important but we should factor other things like incentives as well. The bottom line is: are they making any money from these cars?

    I suspect they do, and they also have a bit of a halo effect. A 25 year old may come in to check one out and buy something else, a Sonic SS or Cruze or something.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Gary, before you drive the final stake, Caddy is outselling Lincoln, Audi, Acura, and Infiniti.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,293
    My first new car was a Chevrolet. I was 22, had just graduated from college, and purchased a new black 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Caddy is outselling Lincoln

    The Caddy SRX by itself outsold Lincoln.

    Scion outsold Lincoln.

    Mini outsold Lincoln.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,293
    Bring back the Town Car!


    This is the ONLY Lincoln in recent memory that I would've purchased. Alas, it is no more! I am still interested in one as a used buy.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,608
    Caddy is barely outselling Audi. Audi has gained 18% for the year. Caddy has lost 6% for the year. And the best selling Cadillac SRX is Not made in the USA. That is almost half their sales for the year.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 8,840
    Sales are what matters most. Look back on any car in history and all you'll read is how it competed sales-wise with anything else, not profit-per-unit.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Posts: 2,743
    Profit is what matters most if you want the company to continue to make sales numbers. I can sell more cars than anyone else in the world, but if I sell them at a loss I won't be selling them for much longer.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,608
    And that is exactly the reason we had to bail out GM & C. They wanted units sold to keep their UAW workers happy and it bankrupted them. You cannot pay workers to sit in a rubber room when car sales are down and not go broke. Selling at a loss can only go on so long. I think GM is headed down the same slippery slope with sub-prime auto loans and fleet sales at cost.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Look back at that same history and you'll also see the companies that failed to make profits on those sales disappear from the carmaker map.

    Profit per unit is a straw man statistic. If the manufacturer can't "net" a bottom line profit, sooner or later it's "Buh-Bye!". In today's financial arena, that's much more likely to be sooner than later, unless some form of government assistance is added into the mix. Even then, nowadays that bucket is pretty shallow...
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 5,025
    Sales are what matters most.

    Not if the company can't stay in business.

    As an example, Conde Nast ranked Virgin America as the #1 domestic airline. Yet they are hemmorhaging money and likely to go bust in the next 12 months. Not enough sales.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 8,840
    We're talking auto sales. Please show me any online reporting of a specific car model in the past that outsold another but didn't make as much profit per unit as the other. I didn't think you could.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 30,608
    I don't know of any company that reports profit by model. There has been speculation for a long time that Toyota subsidizes the Prius to satisfy CAFE. I doubt seriously the Malibu makes as much per unit net profit as the CamCords.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Dodge City, KSPosts: 6,476
    edited November 2012
    our son bought a 2000 white Lincoln Town Car several months ago. That is one nice car, an "old man's car" that is worth the money he paid for it.


    The body is straight, there's only a little paint besmirchment on the back trunk area, right below where you grip the trunk, on the back bumper. It could be fixed, I could probably make it look better myself by farting around with a "do-it yerself kit" of some kind. He done well wid it, really.

    Easy as all get-out ta steer the thing, you can steer the car with one finger. All the "bells and whistles" and a stereo that I would head to the local Coeur d' Alene audio shop ta get replaced if I owned the car, but how could that be much of a complaint really? Ya know what I mean?

    2011 Kia Soul Sport 5-speed

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