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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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Comments

  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    What I find amazing is that folks aren't able to understand how to plug lights and appliances in at a union-maintained location, but are perfectly capable of doing that at home.

    LOL, no kidding. I've worked many trade shows in places where the unions and local government don't extort exhibitors and I've never seen anyone electrocute themselves or anyone one else. Sure I can understand requiring a licensed electrician to perform electrical work that's more involved than simply plugging an electrical cord into an outlet. I could even accept keeping 1 or 2 electricians on staff to go around and verify the connections in all of the booths. But to require an electrician to simply plug in items is ridiculous. If the building was wired correctly in the first place, overloading a circuit should simply trip a breaker.

    One would think the entire country would have burned down by now...

    LOL!
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    My comments are only tied to "the survey" in the most tenuous way. My comments are primarily in response to your statement about not believing that production is returning to the U.S., when it indeed has happened and for several high-volume products.

    Manufacturing is definitely coming back to the US, but it's not going to bring a lot of direct employment with it. Much of it is highly automated.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    While you may find non-conduit electrical systems in houses amazing, you're in an extremely small minority. In this country, few houses (overall) are.

    Perhaps "ignorant" or "dumb" would be a better word than "amazing". Rigid conduit, piping, thinwall is the superior method for running electrical wire in houses and buildings. That along with metal boxes rather than plastic for junctions, light switches, ac outlets, lighting fixtures, etc. Products such as romex are vulnerable to events such as mice getting in walls and chewing off insulation. Romex exposed in unfinished attics is vulnerable to critters such as squirrels and mice invading and then chewing off insulation. Of course, missing insulation and bare wire exposure may cause a fire.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,090
    As a U.S. citizen, I see those steps only as a good thing and frankly I don't see how anybody couldn't.

    I agree provided we keep our workforce at the highest level of competency. That proved to be impossible in the 1980s, 90s with the UAW work rules. With the recent bogus arbitration that gave 13 drunks and potheads jobs back, I question our UAW workforce.

    I am really liking what I see in the 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel. My biggest problem is buying a vehicle built by incompetent UAW workers. Especially potheads in Detroit MI. I would feel much better about buying if the JGC was built in a non union shop in the South, where people are appreciative of having a good job. The ML350 Bluetec is built on the same chassis also assembled in the USA. Makes it a tough decision.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,090
    Products such as romex are vulnerable to events such as mice getting in walls and chewing off insulation.

    Last I read less than 10% of US residential uses conduit. I know in CA Romex is still the standard for residential wiring. Conduit is only required in commercial buildings here. It looks like Illinois may be the only state that requires EMT in residential.

    In CA, all new residential has to have sprinklers installed. That includes detached garages. So you have to run water to every building. With a minimum 45 lbs of pressure. The water utility only has to provide 30 lbs to the meter. So most of the places around here require a big pressure tank and pump to keep at least 45 lbs on your home water system.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    It looks like Illinois may be the only state that requires EMT in residential.

    It's certainly not a state requirement here in Illinois unless that has changed in the last few years. My house was built in '05 and uses Romex.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    It looks like Illinois may be the only state that requires EMT in residential.

    That would be in Cook County. Probably one of the few things positive about one of the most notorious places in the U.S.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,090
    edited April 2013
    I don't see it as positive in any way. I have never had rat, mice or squirrels eat my Romex insulation. Sounds like Union control of government to me. How do you run EMT through floor joists in a two story home. It would add $1000s to the cost of wiring a home with little or no benefit. I am glad it is limited to Cook county as I would never live there or anywhere close by. I take my SIL's advice and avoid even driving through Illinois. The worst part is the Chicago cancer has spread to Washington DC.

    PS
    I have had squirrels do damage to automotive wiring and tubing. If you park a vehicle outdoors in CA very long you will get rats and squirrels nesting under your hood.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,178
    edited April 2013
    Or better yet, rent out the policeman for a profit. And if you don't want to pay...well, I am sure we could be out of the EU and Asia in a matter of months. We might have lost some ground, but our military is still top notch (and better be, for what it costs). Talk about a potential profit center. I wonder how many budgetary problems that could solve.

    Those dodging corps also shouldn't be able to stash the loot in places where the money wasn't earned - in essence, paying taxes nowhere, and lately, not putting the money into product innovation or stocks, either. Maybe something else for the policeman to deal with.

    Your last part re: Africa comes back to the taking advantage of a system and then running away when the maintenance comes due - kind of the "I got mine, you can go pound sand" mentality, and I don't want to hear a word about SS from people your age ;) - they'll have bumped up the retirement age to 80 for my generation.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited April 2013
    Manufacturing is definitely coming back to the US, but it's not going to bring a lot of direct employment with it. Much of it is highly automated

    I'd venture a guess that the numbers added by the models I mentioned would be in the thousands. It's only a guess.

    Anything that's returned to 'Made in U.S.A.' is a debit IMO.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    I don't see it as positive in any way. I have never had rat, mice or squirrels eat my Romex insulation. Sounds like Union control of government to me. How do you run EMT through floor joists in a two story home. It would add $1000s to the cost of wiring a home with little or no benefit.

    I agree. I'm not losing any sleep over Romex. I recently visited our camper to open it up and get it ready for summer. A family of mice had taken residence under the kitchen cabinets and under the stove. They chewed up some of the wood panels under sink where Romex type wiring and plastic plumbing ran through. They didn't mess with any of the wiring or plastic plumbing.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,090
    We might have lost some ground, but our military is still top notch (and better be, for what it costs).

    I agree. I would eliminate the Army completely. Expand the Marines as part of the Navy. A strong Navy is our best defense and offense. Really not much the Air Force does that could not be done from aircraft carriers and missile launching ships. Cutting the Navy to the point of not maintaining our aircraft carriers is political BS.

    I don't want to hear a word about SS from people your age - they'll have bumped up the retirement age to 80 for my generation.

    Look in the mirror, your generation have elected the people wanting to give the SS Savings to people that have not earned it. I would have gladly kept all the money I have dumped into SS/MC and invested it myself. I would be getting at least twice what the stingy Feds pay back every month. I am glad my union pension fund was not run by the Feds.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,090
    I'd venture a guess that the numbers added by the models I mentioned would be in the thousands.

    Will the models added to US manufacture out number the models being dropped? Ford Ranger, Chrysler T&C, Jeep Compass, GM hybrid PU trucks etc all built here are going or gone.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    edited April 2013
    Perhaps "ignorant" or "dumb" would be a better word than "amazing". Rigid conduit, piping, thinwall is the superior method for running electrical wire in houses and buildings. That along with metal boxes rather than plastic for junctions, light switches, ac outlets, lighting fixtures, etc. Products such as romex are vulnerable to events such as mice getting in walls and chewing off insulation. Romex exposed in unfinished attics is vulnerable to critters such as squirrels and mice invading and then chewing off insulation. Of course, missing insulation and bare wire exposure may cause a fire.

    Well, lets be scientific about this....

    When you can clearly, and factually demonstrate a statistically significant reduction in house fires in areas that require conduit .vs. those that don't, we can discuss the advantage/costs ratios. Until then, its a regulation that requires people to pay extra $$$ for nothing. Well, nothing for them, but a huge benefit to the conduit installers.

    Ask any fire martial where electrical fires due to faulty house firing (installed in walls/ceiling/flooring, not extension cords, etc.) fall in the rankings, and I'll give you 5 to 1 odds it'll be far below smoking, stove fires, faulty appliances... The list will be long before you reach faulty house wiring.

    It's certainly possible conduit could decrease house fires, but that doesn't automatically translate into less house fires, no more than wrapping your kid up in bubble-wrap before putting him in a car seat would actually offer added protection. It certainly seems like it would, but I've never seen it done.

    Like I said earlier, if it was any problem of significance, the rest of the country would have burned years ago.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,254
    edited April 2013
    I would eliminate the Army completely. Expand the Marines ... Really not much the Air Force does that could not be done from aircraft carriers and missile launching ships.

    That would be nice as it would save $$$, but I'm not sure it would work in the real world. Here are some of the problems: You can't really win any significant conflicts without either placing boots on the ground or using WMD. No soldiers, gains will be short-lived unfortunately. Bombs and missiles alone can't really wipe out the opposing forces. The Marines, being a quick deployment force, are expensive to operate - but very much needed. Weapons and war technology are making aircraft carriers much more vulnerable. In fact China is testing some stealth supersonic missile technology that has the Navy quite concerned. Enemy submarines are improving substantially as well. The Navy is also extraordinarily expensive to operate. AF bombers are still a critical part of the nuclear defense triad (along with land launched and submarine based). What we should be doing in my way of thinking is improving and updating our nuclear deterrent capabilities like China and Russia are doing quietly. The size of the Army is something that should probably be looked at though because I'm not sure we're going to see massive land deployments (although it might be necessary shorter term in a war with North Korea if we don't go nuke whether we need to clean up their forces or handle mass population capitulation). I suspect the Army over time will end up with a larger reserve force and smaller active duty one due to cost. Probably makes sense as long as we don't do the Reserves on the cheap for cost cutting. Congress is run by a bunch of idiots, so you've got to be concerned about how they downsize Defense.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,587
    edited April 2013
    Anyone tire kicking a new car for their stable?

    We'll even live chat with you from the dealer. :-)

    Edmunds Connected

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • berriberri Posts: 4,254
    Well, I'm kind of looking at Crossovers (or maybe even a minivan), but with the excessive Detroit sticker prices and the new forthcoming Asian products, I think I'll defer until 2014.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    IMO, what would really be nice would be charging countries for the protection we provide.

    Pay to play.

    Personally, I'm not too worried about modern day Japan creating some aggressive war machine if we removed our forces (that's the driving "idea" tats kept US troops stationed there since WWII) and going Pearl Harbor V 2.0.

    We pay taxes to support our police. Other countries should at least pay the costs of their protection.

    Seems so obvious to me.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,587
    edited April 2013
    Somehow I don't think sticker prices will ease. Although production and sales are way up, but there's still a lot of pent-up demand out there.

    Well, minivan deals should be out there.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    My daughter is getting a new ride in a couple of months. At this time, she's leaning towards a Subaru Forrester, but she has yet to do a test drive, so that's subject to change. She's the exact type of person that Subaru marketing appeals to... Outdoorsy, very active, young, etc.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,653
    I will be looking for a couple of vehicles over the next 12-24 months. My Expedition is nearing 120k miles and my daughter will be driving within the next 2 years. So I'll need to find her something to drive.

    I don't know what I want. Might go with a pickup, but I'm also curious about the upcoming Suburban and Expedition. Whichever direction I go, I need the capability to tow 6k to 9k lbs.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,587
    edited April 2013
    Sounds like my sister. Lives in the garden all summer, active shopper, 67. Dog lover too, but she's been between dogs for a while now.

    Her Forester is an '05.

    (I jest, but the Subaru Crew - Meet The Members will agree with your marketing assessment. Does she have a boyfriend or dog named Dave?).

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    edited April 2013
    Does she have a boyfriend or dog named Dave?

    Not that I'm aware of...

    She does have a middle-aged cat, female, rescued from a shelter.... Name is Emm. Short for Emily, Emmy, something...

    I can't remember ever riding in a Subaru, so it'll be interesting for me as well when I go with her to take a test drive. Should be fun.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,178
    edited April 2013
    Consolidation would probably be a logical idea for the military - but it would cut off some well-connected contractors and "capitalists" (who built it!) no doubt, so it's not likely anytime soon. Nice idea though. Save so much money, use the savings to revamp some tax codes, and see what happens. And after the third dose of coddling, what if the "job creators" again fail to put up?

    I am not seeing much difference no matter who is elected. A defeated group still hasn't revealed their miraculous savior economic plan. Could the emperor really have no clothes? Not to mention, older people tend to have higher voter turnouts, who who is doing the electing? :P
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,178
    Not to mention the enormously expensive operations scattered around the EU. If they want that protection, they can open the wallet, or we can leave. It's simple. Same thing for petulant states to the southeast of there.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,178
    Are all Foresters still made in Japan? I know they were for a long time.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,774
    Could the emperor really have no clothes?

    None of the emperors or would-be emperors have any clothing.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    At the moment, I think all US model Foresters are Japan built, but according to the link below, that's getting ready to change, and US models will be made in Indiana...

    http://www.autoblog.com/2012/12/07/subaru-mulling-expanding-indiana-plant-for-fo- rester-impreza/
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,090
    And after the third dose of coddling, what if the "job creators" again fail to put up?

    The job creators are fed up with our over regulated society. It is not the Job Creators that are pulling the Federal strings. It is the Fed and their cronies in the banking and Wall Street establishment. Look around at the jobs created in the auto industry. All subsidized by the States and Federal government. That is an unsustainable economy.

    I am not seeing much difference no matter who is elected.

    The Bubble burst under a Democrat Congress. And went further in the toilet under a Democrat President.

    Not to mention, older people tend to have higher voter turnouts, who who is doing the electing?

    The elections since 2006 have all been based on fear. I don't see any logical arguments for either party. At least not coming out of the MSM. Ads pushing old people off cliffs. More wars if you don't vote for the supposed peaceful Democrats. You know the reality. Just don't want to accept it.

    Consolidation would probably be a logical idea for the military - but it would cut off some well-connected contractors and "capitalists" (who built it!) no doubt, so it's not likely anytime soon. Nice idea though.

    Thanks, I thought so. We pretty much agree on the military strangle hold. It is even worse now with $96 billion a year funneled through foreign corporations into Afghanistan. At least Halliburton was kind of American.
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