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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Thank you for correcting me. I was not aware of VW's powertrain warranty being that good. I hope you get good service out of your VW; by what I've heard they do no better in CR (for those who follow that closely) than GM's.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,820
    The 10 yr/100K powertrain warranty is only on the Toureg. All others are 5 yr/60K mile.

    Also it looks like for 2014, VW is dropping the 2 yr included service and 2 yr warranty for a 3 yr/36K warranty.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    Not sure CR is any more reliable than they were in the 1960s & 70s so not on my list of sources.

    Bottom line is I don't trust the reliability of any brand after warranty including Lexus. I get a sense that the Touareg is kind of a halo vehicle for VW. So they take extra steps to insure customer satisfaction. This is my first new vehicle to have an automatic 20 day complete inspection. With a loaner of my choice to wander around in while they inspected and detailed my vehicle. The loaner was a Beetle TDI that would be high on my list of runabouts if we really needed one. What a fun car to drive and 50 MPG indicated when we got back to the dealership. The only additional warranty that I purchased was 4 year 48k mile B-B with all service and a complete front and rear brake job. Another poster said that was well worth $975.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,502
    They tow it to the nearest dealer and on Friday I get a call around lunchtime asking if it was my Acadia sitting on their lot. So much for Roadside assist passing on the details.

    Here's how my dealer handled a similar issue- Several months ago I was on my way back from an assignment in Northern Ky when my son called and said the low coolant light came on in his X3 and that a couple of minutes later the temp gauge went into the red zone. I have threatened him with a slow and painful death if he drives one of my BMWs any distance with the temperature gauge pegged, so he pulled off as soon as it was safe to do so. I told him to wait until it cooled down and then drive it home(he was @1 mile away). When I got home a quick inspection revealed that the coolant expansion tank had cracked(after "only" 9 years and 148k miles). I really didn't have the time to perform the R&R myself so I used my insurance breakdown coverage and had it towed to my dealer. I called the dealer at 7:30 the following day(Friday) but their phone system was down. However, an advisor soon called me on his own cell phone to find out why the truck was there. About one hour later my regular advisor followed up and confirmed my diagnosis. While I had it there I authorized replacement of the seeping valve cover gasket(another job I had been planning to do). At 12:45 they called and said the car was ready to go- and it was washed and vacuumed when I picked it up. This is why my wife is extremely hesitant to stray from the Munich fold(and this dealer)- and I can't say I blame her. I didn't expect it to be finished before the following Monday; never mind in less than 6 hours. I know of more than a few dealer service departments where the staff would have simply sat on their hands until the phone system was repaired.
    Two BIG thumbs-up to Swope BMW in Louisville, KY!

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,883
    Is a very lengthy and grandiose warranty really enough to motivate you, as a buyer, to turn a blind eye to the bad reputation of the product?

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,562
    edited August 2013
    Back in '88 we really wanted one of those new-fangled minivans. At the time, Chrysler offered a special 7/70 drivetrain warranty. That helped a lot with the decision to get into the '89 Voyager, since the transmissions were iffy.

    Turned out I used it three times - but on the head gaskets.

    Another Toyota would have run better most likely, but man, I loved that body style.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,971
    Did Toyota even have anything comparable to Chrysler's minivans in 1988? I thought they were still peddling those dangerous little cabover things by that time. Although, they did bring out the Previa for 1990, I think.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,562
    edited August 2013
    The Previa would have been great but we couldn't afford one when they did come out. Other than SAD shaft failures, they ran good. I'd probably still be driving it if we had gotten one.

    The other options were those small commercial looking vans around. Or a VW, and their vans were lousy runners.

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  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,650
    Back when I lived at home, our neighbors bought a Previa after having to many issues with their previous two Caravans. While it was goofy looking, it lasted them trouble free for a long time.

    I think the Chrysler minivans have sold well despite some of the problems they've had simply due to being one of the better designed vans (not necessarily with the mechanicals), they looked better than most inside and out and the few times I've driven them, I think they drove nice too.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,820
    In 1988, they were still importing the cabover van. The Previa was introduced in 1990 and stuck around until 1997.
  • roadburnerroadburner Posts: 6,502
    Is a very lengthy and grandiose warranty really enough to motivate you, as a buyer, to turn a blind eye to the bad reputation of the product?

    No.
    Period.

    2009 328i / 2004 X3 2.5/ 1995 318ti Club Sport/ 1975 2002A/ 2007 Mazdaspeed 3/ 1999 Wrangler/ 1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica

  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    edited August 2013
    I had a 2000 Silverado which had service records folder over two inches thick. This is minor compared to that. The dealer also failed to state that the water pump was under recall. Which I never got a notice for. Imagine that.

    The size of the Acadia is the only thing i like about it. To get this capacity I would have to buy a BOF full sized SUV and it's 12 mpg which I'm not particularly fond of. Guess we'll have to sell one of the dogs with the Acadia.

    True that the water pump would be covered under either the recall or the powertrain but what is more expensive would be replacing the rack and the alignment that you have to do after installing it.

    What's interesting is that the dealer put me in a Mazda 3 which I absolutely cannot stand like the ford Focus I had the other week. Noisy clunky cheap. That's all I can say.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    edited August 2013
    Are you getting anywhere close to the 19 MPG combined EPA rating for the Acadia?

    I looked at them when I started thinking about getting rid of the Sequoia. I talked to an owner that loved his except he could never get over 16 MPG. Which was as bad as what I was driving.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,752
    I agree with you the Acadia is a nice looking whatever it is. It also has lots of room. Worst part is they are GAS HOGS to the max.

    Typically minivans like Odyssey and Sienna ride better, get better mileage, AND have more room than the the bigger SUVs. Somehow some people think having sliding doors makes them less "manly". I'm not one of them -- I'm all for practicality.

    The only real reason I can see for the large SUVs is either needing off road capability (and how many really do that?) or significant towing.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    I noticed shifting from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd under normal acceleration engine revs to 3K. A 3.6L V6 pulling 4700 pounds with a SUV's wind resistance needs higher revs than a V8 would resulting in the less than favorable mileage that's advertised by GM. I would rate it more like 14 city and 17 hwy and that's without a load.

    You could get 16 mpg out of that Sequoia with the 4.7?
  • lemkolemko Posts: 15,162
    ...with a minivan was the green Ford Aerostar van my Dad bought, ironically, after all us kids were already out of the house. It was more like a scaled-down Econoline than what most people think of as a minivan. I rememeber the long skinny shifter that went almost down to the floor. It had a 3.0 V-6, was RWD and I believe was biult on the Ford Ranger truck platform. It was a real bear to remove the rear seat for more cargo room and took two people as it was quite heavy.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    You could get 16 mpg out of that Sequoia with the 4.7?

    Only on highway trips using NON CA gas. Never got over 15 MPG using CA gas. Last trip to Indiana I averaged 17.04 MPG driving 5473 miles. Best tank was 19.81 MPG using Alamagordo, NM gas. Worst was 14.71 MPG on the first leg of the trip using CA gas. Hope to get 30+ on my trip this fall to Indiana. I don't think CA has screwed up the diesel like they have the gas. I will know after this trip.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,562
    Minivans could use about two more inches of ground clearance and they'd be about perfect.

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  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    If you don't need to tow or have very heavy loads, the minivans from Honda, Chrysler and Toyota win hands down in people and hauling capacity.

    Had a Chevy Suburban for 14 years, have a Honda Odyssey for 13 years now. Had them side-by-side for over 3 years and the Honda was superior to the Suburban in hauling capacity, handling, comfort and gas mileage.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    I would sure give a mini van a go if they built one with a diesel engine. I have sworn off gas rigs FOREVER.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    I don't think CA has screwed up the diesel like they have the gas.

    How much is diesel going for in CA? Last time I rented a diesel F250 it was about $5.15 almost a buck more than regular. I was shocked cause that F250 with 4000 miles gave me 9 mpg with no load and 6-7 mpg with a load.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    At 12:45 they called and said the car was ready to go- and it was washed and vacuumed when I picked it up.

    Wash and vacuumed? I was just glad to get it back in one piece and working. Dealer is located in a dusty area near the airport so I ended up washing it. That's ok with me as long as the water pump didn't leak.

    Second dealer had the Acadia for two whole days to R/R the rack. Service advisor called yesterday at 6 pm stating that the rack was installed and all they had left was the alignment so the vehicle should be ready for pickup between 1:30 and 2 pm. If they opened at 7am that sure makes for a long alignment job to finish at 1:30.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,993
    Diesel in CA stays consistently around $4 over the last year. Over the same time period I paid at Costco from $3.45 to $4.49 per gallon for gas. It peaked October 2012 and bottomed January 2013. Currently RUG is $3.65 at Costco and our local Chevron is $4.01 for diesel.

    An F250 diesel that only gets 9 MPG is in bad condition. They should get 18-20 MPG with no load and 12 MPG pulling a 12,000 lb load. That from a friend that hauls cross country with his fifth wheel horse hauler.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    Just get an All Road and call it a day. Good ground clearance and still fun to drive.
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    edited August 2013
    How come when I was looking at Cadillac recently I saw power train warranties much less than the 5 year 100K mile version of what must be only in the past?

    Must of got too expensive to cover!
  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,330
    Buying American cars what does it mean? Don't keep it past 3 years.

    I can't agree more with that statement, but frankly, you have to be a sucker to even buy one in the first place. All the writing has been on the walls for years and years now.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,883
    Fun to drive until the repair bills come in you mean.

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  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,971
    Buying American cars what does it mean? Don't keep it past 3 years

    I'm thinking about trading my 2012 Ram just before it hits the 5 year mark, which is when the powertrain warranty expires. Bumper-to-bumper is 3/36.

    However, it's getting driven so little, that I doubt it'll even have 30,000 miles on it at the 5 year mark. It'll be one year on September 23, and I think it only has about 4400 miles on it. So unless I start driving more, it may only have 25,000 on it after 5 years.

    My rationale though, is that in theory it should need nothing, other than oil and air filter changes, up to the 5 year mark (unless it proves to be a turd). The tires will still probably even be good. But, at that point it might start needing some maintenance stuff. For instance, even though it would be low mileage, after 5 years I'd think it would need a transmission flush, coolant flush, maybe new belts and hoses. And even though spark plugs last a long time nowadays, when you don't drive much they might still get fouled up.

    So I figure I'll bail on it before it needs any maintenance, and get into something new. Plus, life goes by fast enough, and I'm starting to get the feeling that I don't want to keep driving the same thing forever. I had my old Intrepid for 10 years, from the age of 29 to 39. Bought the Ram at 42, and I'll be 47 at its 5 year mark. I'd imagine that by the time I turn 90 I'll probably have to give up driving. So, if I was to keep cars 10 years like I did that Intrepid, that would mean there are only four new vehicles in my future, after the Ram (assumes trading at age 52, 62, 72, and 82). That's kind of a scary though!

    Although I'd still end up with more vehicles than that, since I'm going to have to replace my 2000 Park Ave, eventually.

    But, I'll see how things are when that Ram hits the 5 year mark. If the economy goes to hell and my finances are shot, I'd hang onto it. And if it ends up proving troublesome early on, it'll be gone long before the 5 year mark!

    I can't agree more with that statement, but frankly, you have to be a sucker to even buy one in the first place. All the writing has been on the walls for years and years now.

    According to Consumer Reports, the Ram has an average reliability rating, I think. So, that's not too bad. I think the GM trucks and F-150 are about the same (although GM just redesigned for 2014 and it's too early to tell with them). The Nissan Titan, I think, was actually rated Much worse than Average! But the Toyota Tundra was either Better, or Much Better than Average.

    I've heard people complain about the styling of the Tundra, but personally, I don't mind it. However, I'm sure a Tundra would have cost a lot more than my Ram did. And while it might do better at resale time, pickups in general do tend to hold their value anyway, so I don't think I'd take too much of a bath, trading in the Ram.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    Do you have a link, andres3? I find it very hard to believe that a Sonic has a longer powertrain warranty than a Cadillac.

    Not that there's ever been anything completely false, factually, posted about GM here before. ;)
  • greg128greg128 Posts: 341
    "pickups in general do tend to hold their value anyway"

    Yes they do. I paid $14 after rebates for the least expensive full size truck in 2006 - a 4.3L manual trans Silverado 2wd work truck. AC & CD were standard and it actually had a couple of options: rear window, heavy duty suspension and tinted glass. I think it would sell for at least $9K today which after 7 years would only average out to about $700 per year in deprciation. Of course loaded up trucks lose alot more.\

    It has been a good truck.Very reliable and actually gets a lot better mileage than some older 6 cyl F-150's we have had. The truck has the coldest AC I have ever experienced in a vehicle (probably due to the lack of back seat)
    But the manual trans is the low point. Very balky. The old 4.3 V-6 is a solid engine. We had an Astro that went 320K.
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