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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    edited August 2013
    According to the Cadillac website, the power train warranty on new models is now 70K miles, dropping from the previous 100K miles...

    "Cadillac 4-year/50,000-mile1 Bumper-to-Bumper Limited Warranty with no deductible
    Cadillac 6-year/70,000-mile1 Transferable Powertrain Limited Warranty with no deductible for 2013 models (5-years/100,000-miles1 for 2012 and older models).
    Cadillac 6-year/70,000-mile1 Roadside Assistance for 2013 models (5-years/100,000-miles1 for 2012 and older models).
    Cadillac 6-year/70,000-mile1 Courtesy Transportation for 2013 models (5-years/100,00-miles1 for 2012 and older models)"
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    "Is a very lengthy and grandiose warranty really enough to motivate you, as a buyer, to turn a blind eye to the bad reputation of the product? "

    After my "experience" in the mid 1980's with my new Chevy S10 Blazer, I wouldn't have touched another Chevrolet product for years, even if the warranty covered 100% of every item's cost, and lasted the rest of my lifetime.

    It took me 16 years to muster the courage to try another GM product after that fiasco...
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    An F250 diesel that only gets 9 MPG is in bad condition.

    After reading about them I thought the same way until I had the chance to rent two others with the same result. With diesel at $5 and mileage so bad can't figure buying a Ford diesel anytime soon. Course I usually drive half tons anyway.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    I can't agree more with that statement, but frankly, you have to be a sucker to even buy one in the first place. All the writing has been on the walls for years and years now.

    I'm picking up the vehicle today. Whether I make it home or trade on the way home we shall see. What's unfortunate is that there's nothing offered by the foreign makes in this size. I don't want to end up with an Armada or Sequoia.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,069
    >Not that there's ever been anything completely false, factually, posted about GM here before.

    Rofl
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,891
    Looking at Fuelly.com there are 406 owners of Ford F250 Super Duty diesels. Average for the lot 1997 to 2013 is 15 MPG. Only two out of the 406 averaged 9 MPG. 5 averaged 21 MPG. scanning through I see one of the 9 MPG is actually a gasser pulling a 9800lb trailer. The year I had a Diesel Sprinter RV I never got under 20.26 MPG. According to a note in the spreadsheet that was crossing TX on Interstate 10 with heavy headwinds.

    http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/f-250%20super%20duty/diesel%20v8

    It is obvious you don't like diesels and that is fine. You can always come to San Diego CA and pay $4.89 a gallon for RUG. And $5.09 for Premium.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    But, at that point it might start needing some maintenance stuff. For instance, even though it would be low mileage, after 5 years I'd think it would need a transmission flush, coolant flush, maybe new belts and hoses. And even though spark plugs last a long time nowadays, when you don't drive much they might still get fouled up.

    Unless your miles are mostly under 10 - 15 minutes one way, I don't think it will need any of those items. Plugs will be barely used. A tranny flush? No way..in fact better to stay away from tran flushing. I hear all the time that it causes more issues than it saves. It is a revenue generator for the dealership. Belts and hoses? No way, unless you happen to have gotten a bad batch of rubber. A belt maybe, ONLY if it was a faulty one from new AND had a faulty tensioner to boot. Highly unlikely. Coolant might be 10 year coolant. Check your OM. My 05 Honda came with 10 year coolant. If you think a Jiffy Lube might have at one time "topped it up" with regular coolant, then that action alone will degrade the long life coolant to regular life coolant. Put a padlock on anything with a lid if you go to Jiffy Lube type joints..but check things yourself. Pick a none humid day if you ever find you have to remove the brake fluid reservoir cap.

    I'd be more concerned with wiring connection glitches if you think you ended up with a bad truck and the stalling becomes an ongoing challenge to fix. If after 2 attempts at the same dealer without success, definitely source a new head at a different dealer. Could be a software reflash type thing. Or could be a bigger PITA, who knows. 2nd opinions with a fresh head are key to stuff like this if the same guy can't fix it.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    edited August 2013
    I'm inclined to agree with you, except for two tradeoffs that would be noticeable in all but the most sedate of owners. FE would suffer, and cuz of the situp type seating, it contributes to an already higher than average CoG, so made worse by that extra 2". Even sedate drivers would pay a FE penalty though...just can't get around it.

    A solution would be an AWD model with optional grd clearance spacing, and a turbo diesel. A man can dream..
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,144
    I sort of remember being able to comfortably inch under my Voyager to change the oil. I do that in the Quest too, but I'm not able to get very far under there and it's a stretch to reach the plug.

    We did tear off the brake equalizer one trip into the boonies on the Voyager but I still think it had more GC than the Quest.

    The other irritant is the Voyager came with 14 or 15" tires (per TireRack - I don't remember what we had). Yet it still managed to clear most stuff that we drive.

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  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    When I had my 89 Voyager, I used to just drive it onto 4 short pieces of 2x6. Made the difference. My CRV is the MOST annoying vehicle I have ever had to change the oil on. Its grd clearance isn't much better than the minivans, and worse, the oil filter is in never never land at the back of the engine right near where the exhaust manifold is. The oil filter was great to access on the 3.0 Mitsubishi on the 89.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited August 2013
    What the original poster failed to note was that the length of the powertrain warranty has increased one year:

    "How come when I was looking at Cadillac recently I saw power train warranties much less than the 5 year 100K mile version of what must be only in the past?"

    Six years is "much less" than five years? ;)

    On our 2011 Malibu, we've put about 15K annually.

    So at the end of five years, we'd still be covered. With the new warranty, we'd be covered less than five.

    I don't know what the average mileage is these days, but I suspect we're above average in mileage.

    Here's what Caddy's website says about the change:

    "Cadillac-specific data shows that the majority of Cadillac owners will reach the 5-year warranty expiration faster than the 100,000-mile threshold. By changing the term to 6-year/70,000-mile1, Cadillac is committed in providing you with an additional 12 months of coverage."

    It seems like they'd cover powertrain for 72K miles in six years.

    What are BMW's, Acura's, Infiniti's, Benz's powertrain warranties?
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,891
    edited August 2013
    What are BMW's, Acura's, Infiniti's, Benz's powertrain warranties?

    Don't know about the Japanese. The MB, BMW, AUDI diesel SUVs I looked at were all 4 year 50k miles bumper to bumper. No separate powertrain warranty. The VW Touareg TDI Lux is the only vehicle in the class with 10 years 100k mile power train warranty. I think they keep the years short to cover their leases and offer high priced additional warranties to those that might keep the vehicles longer. I bought the 7 yr 70k mile extended warranty on both my Sequoia and Nissan PU truck. So the granddaughter that bought our Sequoia has a year of platinum Toyota warranty and 34k miles.

    I must add I am not thrilled with the Nissan extended warranty. They did not cover the windshield washer tank when it sprang a leak. $258 to replace. I like the truck ok, I don't think I would buy another. Probably just keep this one till the wheels fall off. I am hoping Ford brings their world class Ranger diesel to the US market.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,490
    Especially in the LUX brands, warranties can be a significant part of the sales equation. As you noted, brands like BMW carry 4-year, 50K mile warranties.... Which supports the way so many BMW's are marketed. 3 year leases are big, and a remaining year of warranty for the secondary buyer to feel comfortable purchasing the used car.

    Make the warranty too short, and buyers shy away from technically advanced autos, both in primary sales and secondary sales, for obvious reasons.

    OTOH, make them too long, and the manufacturer discourages "trading up" to a newer model every 3 years or so, and it also has a tendency to "spike up" resale values, cutting out a segment of potential buyers in the secondary market.

    Of course, a manufacturer can offer extended warranties on new cars (longer than their competitors) as a sales "enhancement" for a while, which is what I'm guessing Cadillac has done. Caddie is now simply bringing them more in line (slowly) with its perceived competition.

    Personally, as a younger man, I would have preferred higher mileage warranties over longer period ones, because with young children, I really put the miles on a car. Now that the kids are gone, so has most of my mileage, and accordingly a longer period warranty has more appeal to me today.

    So, is changing a 5-year, 100K mile warranty to a 6-year, 70K warranty a cut or an enhancement?

    It all depends on how many miles one drives a year.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 393
    What no diesel Colorado for you? It is supposed to be here in 2015, I know it is GM but it is what you have been asking for.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,670
    "I wonder if more people these days are having to get their parents or other relatives to co-sign for their loans these days?"

    Not if they listen to old Bob the lawyer (that's me)...a good number of my Chapter 7s are folks who WERE the co-signers for their brother/son/daughter/cousin/best friend, and then that person failed to make the FIRST payment, suddenly my client is stuck with a repo with a deficiency balance of somewhere between $7-20K...I have all of those clients do this:

    'Raise your right hand and repeat after me, three time...I will NEVER co-sign for another person for the next $500 years...I will NEVER co-sign for another person for the next $500 years...I will NEVER co-sign for another person for the next $500 years..."

    And, they usually start smiling, realizing that they really do have the power to say "no" to whoever the close friend or close relative may be...

    What a sense of freedom...it is a rewarding part of what I do...free folks from what they thought was their "obligation" to do...
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,891
    I would rather loan someone the money as to co-sign for them. It is the dumbest thing to do. That is right up there with putting your home up as collateral for a family member to get a business loan. I don't know anyone that has made out putting up money for a family member to start a business. Don't lend to family and friends anymore than you can afford to lose.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,891
    What no diesel Colorado for you? It is supposed to be here in 2015, I know it is GM but it is what you have been asking for.

    I read about them coming to America. And for a minute I thought maybe. Then I remember the lousy 2005 GMC Sierra Hybrid and canceled the thought from my mind. The Canyon/Colorado were such junky trucks in their gas versions. I don't imagine they will get any better. They have been out of production for how long and there are still new ones on dealers lots. I would rather see the T6 Ranger diesels here. Only midsized truck that competes on the World market with the HiLux diesels. In fairness to GM, the Ford Ranger built and sold here the last few years was junk as well. I had one and hated it. No way in a league with the Nissan Frontier I have now. Which to me is superior to the Tacoma.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    I simply can't imagine sticking a family member, friend, or even a stranger for a debt I incurred, with their generosity.. and trust in me no less! The thought of defaulting on them is abhorrent me.

    One time many years ago I was down in the city and came across a purchase potential of an 89 Toyota Cressida. My intent was to buy it and turn it over for a profit. I was staying at my best friend's place and asked him if he could loan me $6600.00 which I would repay as soon as I got home about 3 days later and could do some banking. He didn't blink an eye. Cuz he knew I was good for it. Trust and friendship like that, a price can't be put on. It is a shame so many of your customers will never know that quality of life. Losers every single one.. pffftttt
    I just can't relate..even though I am not so naive that abuse like that exists.

    Freedom? Freedom is knowing a friend has my back, just as they know I would have theirs.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    I used to have an 86 Nissan 2WD p/u I bought from a friend of mine. He was going to trade it on an 87 Pathfinder, which coincidently I also ended up owning many years later. One of my fav old trucks that I have spoken fondly of here more than once in the past.

    In 86, they weren't calling the p/u a Frontier yet.

    I'm quite interested to learn some of the details of your experiences and why you prefer the Frontier you have now over any Tacoma. My bros has had a new Tacoma every few years for the last decade, and I have borrowed it on occasion. It had its strengths, but overall I know I would never buy one because it had the same type of chassis shudder over bumps that a new 2011 CRV had when I demo'd it. Imagine every little bump having 2 or 3 extra concussion bumbs after. That was my biggest beef with it. My 86 though exhibited no such traits.

    I did like the 2.7 inline 4 and 4 sp auto though. Toyota had it dialed for the best compromise of shift down when needed, but FE being its primary goal.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,891
    I have loaned money and borrowed money as you mentioned. That is not the same as co-signing on a loan and finding out 6 months after the fact it is in arrears and your credit is shot to hell. Not sure how it works in Canada. I made the mistake of giving a lady friend a CC to take her children on a little vacation. $7500 in 27 days and AMEX at the time was pay up when the bill comes. I did not have that kind of money. I quickly canceled the card and she ran up another $5000 before they got around to cancelling. Needless to say it put a hit on my pristine credit that took years to get back where it was before that. Live and learn. I can tell you story after story of guys in the Oilfields that loaned money to people to get businesses started and lost it all. People that make good money are targets for family members to hit on. Not everyone feels obligated to repay loans they take out. Look at the millions of foreclosures in the USA today.
  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    It is obvious you don't like diesels and that is fine.

    You're missing the point completely. I'm just stating what has been my personal experience renting diesel F250s and that's all I'm stating. I have no personal preference when it comes to diesel but I'm sure you would agree that 9 mpg empty won't be saving me much over a gasser. Being rentals who knows what those trucks have been through and there is a sign in the cab stating only one type of diesel should be used and not the type made from recycled cooking oil.

    You have us beat on the price of RUG. But we blow you away with our current $.37 kWh.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,891
    You must be in Hawaii. That is the only place with higher electric than CA.

    The only vehicle I ever owned that got 9 MPG was a Ford F250 with 460 gas engine. And it nearly killed us back the the late 1970s when gas got up around $1.50 a gallon in MN.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 393
    I suspected your previous experience with your last GM would be the reason you wouldn't want one. To be fair the new truck is already I. The world market and from what I have read is a good competitor to the Toyota and the Ranger ( the Toyota from what I have read is considered quite out of date in most of the world, even if it is still considered the safe indestructible bet), the truck that gets the most praise actually seems to be the VW amorak ( don't think that is quite the correct name). It seems to be winning the comparison tests I have read, the ford is usually second, the rest somewhere further down. That said I understand your reasoning, just hopefully the new Colorado sells well enough ( especially in Diesel Trim) to make some of those other competitors start offering their trucks in North America as well, choice is always a good thing after all.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,891
    I got all excited about the VW Amarok when it was shown somewhere. I thought it was a concept vehicle. Very cool, not sure if it is a practical PU truck. The Chicken tax is still in effect which may keep the cheaper small PU trucks out of the market. Got to protect the domestics money makers.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,069
    > it had the same type of chassis shudder over bumps that a new 2011 CRV had when I demo'd it. Imagine every little bump having 2 or 3 extra concussion bumbs after.

    Whoa. Another flaw in the perfect image of some foreign brands. After bump reverb shake.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 393
    Yes I think it wins when it is considered as a lifestyle pick-up ( compared against four door pick-ups of the same basic size). I think it is as practical as any of the other same sized pick-ups. Of course it doesn't offer a two door bench seat option with a bigger box as far as I know so that probably does limit it's appeal to a smaller segment of the market. As for the chicken tax it does seem that it may be going away sometime in the near future ( though of course that it subject to any number of things going wrong) as even the "domestic" manufactures want it gone ( of course the UAW probably wants it to stay).
  • Let me see-
    My 1993 Taurus went 325000 miles before I gave it up. It drove to the scrap yard, and the kid there took one look at it and bought it for himself.
    My 2000 Intrepid has 175000 miles now. I just spent(happily) $1200 on needed repairs this Summer. The old girl still gets 30 mpg every day I drive her. A great comfortable commuter.
    I have done absolutely no repairs to my 2007 Focus. 130000 miles. Just tires, brakes and oil changes.
    Would I buy another domestic sedan?
    Why not?
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,897
    I could get under my 2000 Intrepid to change its oil and filter, but the filter and drain plug were up in front, and easy to get to. Haven't done it in awhile, but I was also able to squeeze under my '57 DeSoto to change its oil, without having to jack it up. And that's a good thing, because the few times I've been underneath that car with it jacked up, I just get a bad vibe. Dunno why, maybe because of the fact that it's essentially Christine's big brother?
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,897
    Nice to hear that a 2000 Intrepid is still prowling the streets! Mine, alas, got hit-and-runned in a parking lot back in November 2009, and subsequently totaled out by the insurance company. It had about 150,000 miles on it.

    I still miss it sometimes. It did get good fuel economy, handled well, and was pretty reliable. My only beef was that the dead pedal was in a really bad position for me and when I drove it, I never could get my left leg into a comfortable position. Not bad for short-trip driving, but on the highway it was noticeable after about 45 minutes or so. Mine was just a base model though...I've driven a few with a power seat, and found that I can get it into a much more comfortable position.

    I'm driving a 2000 Park Ave new, which had about 56K on it, and now has around 93K. So, if that old Intrepid was still around, it would have about 187,000 on it. I wonder if it would have made it that far? It was still running well when it got totaled.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,144
    edited September 2013
    Yep, I'd just as soon not fool with jacks or jack stands. Driving up on Gimmee's 2x6's is fine but that's another step that takes time. I just want to toss my old camping pad down and shimmy under the car. I had a sloping driveway in Boise so I could just hang the front end out a bit and block the wheels good on the van.

    On the DeSoto, you could probably climb into the engine compartment to do any work. :-)

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