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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,923
    Toyota and Nissan will always be fighting for 4th place in the US truck market - unless recent trade talk hints allow in small trucks again. And even then, it will be a battle.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,923
    Well, in terms of the middle class dying off, it isn't from the wars.

    The unfunded war ideal, and how some defend it via the jobs it creates (at huge expense and debt) might be the best example of how destructive too much government power can be. It's also a sacred cow of supposed capitalists. Funny how that works.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,701
    edited April 2013
    The profits* go back to Tokyo so they lose standing in the rankings.

    I've always felt that this "profits go back to xxx country" argument to be ridiculous at best.
    • What is the profit margin of a car? Let's say 10% (probably less). So 90% of the value of the car is spent where it is made, not in the profits going back to xxx.

    • Of the actual profits, some of those are distributed to the shareholders, which could be in any country

    • Many companies keep their profits OUT of the country where HQ resides. Certainly many US companies keep offshore profits offshore to avoid US tax rates. How much do you want to bet that, for example, the GM and F profits from say, Mexico, stay out of the US?

    • There is a LOT of additional economic activity generated by the asembly plants, well beyond the value of the vehicles. The workers live in the area and buy homes, boats, cars, and eat at restaurants, etc. All things not shown in the sales numbers for the automaker, but still significant additions to the economic activity
    So profits are likely <5% of the value of the sales. If <5% of the economic value did "go back" to another country, then so what?
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,701
    Toyota and Nissan will always be fighting for 4th place in the US truck market - unless recent trade talk hints allow in small trucks again. And even then, it will be a battle.

    It would be nice to see some smaller trucks here again like we had in the '70's.
  • busirisbusiris Posts: 3,448
    I've always felt that this "profits go back to xxx country" argument to be ridiculous at best.

    Not to beat a dead horse, but looking through the ranking one last time, I noticed that several Chrysler vehicles ranked above the Avalon. Seems that Chrysler gets a 6-point credit for "profit margin", which, according to the ranking criteria, is only for US companies. They also got a 6-point credit for R & D, which is exclusive to US companies.

    Someone remind me... Who has owned Chrysler for a while now?

    No, there isn't any bias in that ranking....
  • berriberri Posts: 4,007
    I kind of agree with Tiong on this matter, except I think the amount of profit flow is not a fixed percentage, but variable. Each year where the money is moved and spent (including R&D, vendor development, etc.) likely varies from business market (country) to business market as need and strategy deems fit. Now Chrysler, you can't blame Fiat for jumping in on that deal the US bailout provided them. Besides, the UAW likely seems tame compared to some of those Italian worker unions! Ironically, the dumbest Chrysler investors were probably the German's (Daimler Benz) despite the stereotype of German's being shrewd, although the US hedge fund following it (Cerberus) doesn't look too bright either. Luckily, it includes many former US gov big shots so it's hit was reduced (but you have to wonder if they weren't involved would Chrysler have been bailed out?).
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    While Tokyo most likely controls those profits, the real question is whether or not they actually go there. In a global economy, global manufacturers (including US manufacturers) keep their reserves and profits in many currency denominations, located all over the globe.

    Absolutely true. That is why Apple has about $140 BILLION stashed off shore to avoid paying 45%+ in corporate profits. So that and several other parameters on that report are bogus. You can bet GM does not bring any profit made in the EU or China back to the USA to be heavily taxed. The World is a free for all no real loyalty anywhere. In the USA lack of loyalty starts in the WH and goes to the homeless with a iPhone from China.

    For me buying American made products is something I try to do. I will not buy sub standard to get Made in USA on the label. Waiting on the new Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel to make up my mind.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,923
    edited April 2013
    The actual rate is 40% IIRC, and Almost nobody pays it anyway

    Scale back the military-industrial monster, use those funds to compensate for tax cuts, send the bill for defending tax havens to their leaders - and if they don't pay, let the pirates invade and pillage. lower US corporate taxes, end loopholes, send lobbyists to gulags (or worse)...and probably see what new excuses the "job creators" will have for not living up to their wild and crazy claims yet again.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    I have no problem ending our waste of money protecting most of the World from who knows what.

    Apple is a CA Corporation so they would be subject to something like 13% state tax. The money was made outside the USA and I see no logical reason for them to bring it back. They should pay the tax in the countries they make the money in. Our outdated tax laws make it difficult to justify bringing profits back to the USA. The USA is a horrible place to start a business. There are countries in Africa that are better choices. As long as the Eco nuts are happy, I can survive. Just glad I put my time in already. Hopefully the Feds won't steal anymore of the SS I paid in.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,361
    edited April 2013
    Well, I agree those are all good things, but I don't see how those fit into the survey

    My comments are only tied to "the survey" in the most tenuous way. My comments are primarily in response to your statement about not believing that production is returning to the U.S., when it indeed has happened and for several high-volume products.

    As a U.S. citizen, I see those steps only as a good thing and frankly I don't see how anybody couldn't...but I'm sure those folks will be posting soon about it. ;)
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,627
    What I find amazing is that folks aren't able to understand how to plug lights and appliances in at a union-maintained location, but are perfectly capable of doing that at home.

    LOL, no kidding. I've worked many trade shows in places where the unions and local government don't extort exhibitors and I've never seen anyone electrocute themselves or anyone one else. Sure I can understand requiring a licensed electrician to perform electrical work that's more involved than simply plugging an electrical cord into an outlet. I could even accept keeping 1 or 2 electricians on staff to go around and verify the connections in all of the booths. But to require an electrician to simply plug in items is ridiculous. If the building was wired correctly in the first place, overloading a circuit should simply trip a breaker.

    One would think the entire country would have burned down by now...

    LOL!
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,627
    My comments are only tied to "the survey" in the most tenuous way. My comments are primarily in response to your statement about not believing that production is returning to the U.S., when it indeed has happened and for several high-volume products.

    Manufacturing is definitely coming back to the US, but it's not going to bring a lot of direct employment with it. Much of it is highly automated.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    While you may find non-conduit electrical systems in houses amazing, you're in an extremely small minority. In this country, few houses (overall) are.

    Perhaps "ignorant" or "dumb" would be a better word than "amazing". Rigid conduit, piping, thinwall is the superior method for running electrical wire in houses and buildings. That along with metal boxes rather than plastic for junctions, light switches, ac outlets, lighting fixtures, etc. Products such as romex are vulnerable to events such as mice getting in walls and chewing off insulation. Romex exposed in unfinished attics is vulnerable to critters such as squirrels and mice invading and then chewing off insulation. Of course, missing insulation and bare wire exposure may cause a fire.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    As a U.S. citizen, I see those steps only as a good thing and frankly I don't see how anybody couldn't.

    I agree provided we keep our workforce at the highest level of competency. That proved to be impossible in the 1980s, 90s with the UAW work rules. With the recent bogus arbitration that gave 13 drunks and potheads jobs back, I question our UAW workforce.

    I am really liking what I see in the 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee Diesel. My biggest problem is buying a vehicle built by incompetent UAW workers. Especially potheads in Detroit MI. I would feel much better about buying if the JGC was built in a non union shop in the South, where people are appreciative of having a good job. The ML350 Bluetec is built on the same chassis also assembled in the USA. Makes it a tough decision.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    Products such as romex are vulnerable to events such as mice getting in walls and chewing off insulation.

    Last I read less than 10% of US residential uses conduit. I know in CA Romex is still the standard for residential wiring. Conduit is only required in commercial buildings here. It looks like Illinois may be the only state that requires EMT in residential.

    In CA, all new residential has to have sprinklers installed. That includes detached garages. So you have to run water to every building. With a minimum 45 lbs of pressure. The water utility only has to provide 30 lbs to the meter. So most of the places around here require a big pressure tank and pump to keep at least 45 lbs on your home water system.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,627
    It looks like Illinois may be the only state that requires EMT in residential.

    It's certainly not a state requirement here in Illinois unless that has changed in the last few years. My house was built in '05 and uses Romex.
  • xrunner2xrunner2 Posts: 3,062
    It looks like Illinois may be the only state that requires EMT in residential.

    That would be in Cook County. Probably one of the few things positive about one of the most notorious places in the U.S.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,680
    edited April 2013
    I don't see it as positive in any way. I have never had rat, mice or squirrels eat my Romex insulation. Sounds like Union control of government to me. How do you run EMT through floor joists in a two story home. It would add $1000s to the cost of wiring a home with little or no benefit. I am glad it is limited to Cook county as I would never live there or anywhere close by. I take my SIL's advice and avoid even driving through Illinois. The worst part is the Chicago cancer has spread to Washington DC.

    PS
    I have had squirrels do damage to automotive wiring and tubing. If you park a vehicle outdoors in CA very long you will get rats and squirrels nesting under your hood.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 32,923
    edited April 2013
    Or better yet, rent out the policeman for a profit. And if you don't want to pay...well, I am sure we could be out of the EU and Asia in a matter of months. We might have lost some ground, but our military is still top notch (and better be, for what it costs). Talk about a potential profit center. I wonder how many budgetary problems that could solve.

    Those dodging corps also shouldn't be able to stash the loot in places where the money wasn't earned - in essence, paying taxes nowhere, and lately, not putting the money into product innovation or stocks, either. Maybe something else for the policeman to deal with.

    Your last part re: Africa comes back to the taking advantage of a system and then running away when the maintenance comes due - kind of the "I got mine, you can go pound sand" mentality, and I don't want to hear a word about SS from people your age ;) - they'll have bumped up the retirement age to 80 for my generation.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,361
    edited April 2013
    Manufacturing is definitely coming back to the US, but it's not going to bring a lot of direct employment with it. Much of it is highly automated

    I'd venture a guess that the numbers added by the models I mentioned would be in the thousands. It's only a guess.

    Anything that's returned to 'Made in U.S.A.' is a debit IMO.
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