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Buying American Cars What Does It Mean?

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  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 39,990
    The link suggests that the UAW trust is seeking $6 billion. So $4 billion would be close to splitting the difference.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,408
    GM's BK has reasons which extend far beyond union/management relations. We must consider:

    1. product
    2. too many dealers
    3. in-bred dysfunctional corporate culture

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    All three reasons are good enough they should have let GM DIE. It will only be a big disappointment when China takes it over and all the diehards have to decide if they want to keep buying.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,742
    The link suggests that the UAW trust is seeking $6 billion. So $4 billion would be close to splitting the difference.

    But it's a heck of a lot more than the less than $2 billion he was trying to pay.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    Fiat may not have $4 billion in cash to offer the UAW? What will it mean to the American car buyer if Chrysler is no longer an American company? Will they treat Jeep Chrysler Dodge Ram the same as Toyota, VW and Honda? As foreign invaders? I cannot believe Buy American advocates are all pro UAW.
  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 393
    Working within the company now ( though admittedly in Canada) I can say that it appears that the culture and mindset has changed for the better. They admit their mistakes and are doing everything they can to provide the best products to their customers, had it all happened yet, no, but they all say how much has changed in the last 10 years ( with a lot of it in the last five). For example apparently the plant ( in my case power train) never heard about warranty problems before, now they hear about them as they happen, and can figure out what they can change to make sure they don't happen again. I know that my line ( the 3.6 v6) was very upset that a customer had to have the engine replaced in their car for the first time in Two years ( from our plant). They were very proud of their record and were not happy to see it go away. So at least here there is pride in their work.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,408
    As someone once said in comparing other automakers and GM during the economic meltdown---"all ships at sea contend with icebergs, but only a few hit them".

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    I must say of the 5 GM trucks I owned at least 2 maybe 3 were built in Canada. The Suburban came from Mexico. The only one I did not like and had issues with came from a UAW factory in the USA. It was a 1/2 ton Hybrid. The first 3 PU trucks were 3/4 ton 4x4s. I loved all three. I know at least two came from Canada. Don't remember where the 1988 GMC was built.

    It is good to hear the GM mentality has changed for the better. I don't expect GM to offer anything I will want. I will only buy diesels going forward. And likely midsized SUVs.
  • berriberri Posts: 4,141
    I don't think GM's current product issues are from the line or the UAW. I lay it on mediocre engineering and low bidder purchasing these days. Also, reading consumer blogs, why does the company still seem to have steering rack and Stabilitrack problems on 2010/11 Lambda's. That should have been fixed within a year or two of the vehicles coming out. Makes me think that Ackerson is more talk than actual action? This is a real issue, because previously burned GM customers like me who rent and like vehicles like this are frightened away when reading things like that.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    I really wanted to like the Acadia when it came out. After talking to two owners that were getting 16 MPG mostly freeway driving, I passed and bought the larger Sequoia which gets about the same. Looking at those that own them on Fuelly they seem to average in the 18 range. Still not that good.

    I rented a lot of Chevy Trailblazer size SUVs in Hawaii. I really liked them and the Ford Explorers. That was when gas was under 2 bucks even in Hawaii. Around 05-06 I got stuck with an Equinox. It only confirmed my belief that GM was in the toilet. I hated that little SUV. As soon as a Trailblazer came in I traded. Not as bad as the Geo Metro they stuck me with many years ago, but close.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    berri, is it you with the Toureg? I can't remember. For it being so completely non-North American, CR says it is very unreliable....if you buy into that. ;)
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,849
    I'll confess that I actually liked the original Equinox when it first came out. Until I got the chance to drive one, that is. This was at a local GM test drive event. Initially I was impressed at how much legroom there was, both front and rear. I don't know what the actual specs are, but to me it felt like it had more legroom than a Suburban! But, upon driving it, I learned to hate it fast. On a closed circuit, I didn't get a chance to experience how bad the 3.4 V-6 was, but I did get to see how bad it handled, and how vague the steering was. I had a friend with me, and even he could tell how unruly it felt. He actually hollered out "don't tip us over!"

    I don't know how their latest offerings are, but for awhile, it seems like GM tended to make its smaller car handle, and in general, just feel like much bigger cars than they are. And that's how this particular Equinox felt. I swear, the big Suburban I also test drove felt more agile and light on its feet!

    To be fair though, I also drove a Saturn Vue, and it handled much better than the Equinox. I think it was some high-performance model, Redline or something like that?

    I wonder if part of the problem with that Equinox was the electric steering? I also remember driving a Malibu Maxx that had it, and it felt pretty bad, too.

    I've heard that the kinks got worked out of electric steering after a year or two, though, and they figured out how to give it better road feel and such, so perhaps the newer models are better?
  • berriberri Posts: 4,141
    edited November 2013
    No - gagrice bought a TDI diesel one. I'm looking and was leaning GM Lambda, but all of the blogs indicating some still unresolved issues like steering racks, drivetrain and water leaks has me backing off a bit. These aren't minor inconveniences. Now I'm going to look a bit closer at the Explorer. But I think I'm probably smart to hold off awhile because there is a new Toyota Highlander coming out in a few months and the new Honda Pilot is supposed to be out this summer. My cars are in good shape right now, so no real hurry, just want to move up to something a little bigger and more comfortable for long highway trips. My wife and I put a lot of emphasis on reliability because of all the grief and hassles we've had in the past with some vehicles. It's frustrating and time consuming while the dealers try to fix the matters, even if it is under warranty. Of course, my Camry has shown me that no brand is immune, just have to assess the probabilities I guess. Just noticed out the window that my neighbor apparently dumped his recently bought Jeep Grand Cherokee for a Ford. The JGC and Durango are nice vehicles, but I just don't trust Chrysler products any more.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    berri, is it you with the Toureg? I can't remember. For it being so completely non-North American, CR says it is very unreliable....if you buy into that.

    That would probably be me. It is totally EU made for sure. I am not really too worried about the reliability. Unless it leaves me stranded like my Toyota Land Cruiser did many, many years ago. I have 4 years and 48,000 miles bumper to bumper, with free service including brakes. It also has 10 years 100,000 mile drive train warranty. service intervals are also stretched out beyond any gas models to 10k miles. Unless I need a new set of tires like I did on the USA made Sequoia after only 25k miles, I don't expect any expenses with the Touareg.

    The previous model Touareg did get a poor choice for buying used from CR.
    It was on the same list as the Ford Explorer, Dodge Journey, BMW X5, MB GL, Nissan Armada, PT Cruiser, Dodge Caravan, Chrysler T&C and Ford Super Duty PU trucks.

    Unsurprising was the fact that most on the list were US made. Including the MB GL and BMW X5.

    You can be sure I will post if the Touareg gives me any problems.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,737
    It's my suspicion that one of the top guys at GM was participating in Edmunds for a time.I believe that one of the posts said something to the effect that eventually we would know who had been the poster. The posts ended when the reorganization occurred.

    Does anyone have a sense that there was a such a person on the discussions.


    Imid, I noticed exactly the same thing. One day (perhaps a year ago), I googled that same name and found it in another forum. I don't quite remember how, but I traced the identity to what seemed to be a product manager at a certain division for a certain car. Of course that might not be accurate. But I did think it was interesting that as soon as the BK hit the posts ceased from that person.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,737
    As someone once said in comparing other automakers and GM during the economic meltdown---"all ships at sea contend with icebergs, but only a few hit them".

    The ones that don't have good navigation. :)
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    Best to just let sinking ships sink. You can always make a movie about them showing how stupidity is usually the cause.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,408
    not possible. It would have been a national disgrace. And foreign governments would have scratched their heads in wonder.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 28,850
    The bailout was a very bad precendent to set. It will only encourage other companies to waste. It has happened several times since. Fisker and Solyndra are good examples. If GM had a plan to get out of the mess they made they could have presented it like Chrysler in 1980. Instead it was chaos with laws broken and money thrown around like confetti.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,737
    not possible. It would have been a national disgrace. And foreign governments would have scratched their heads in wonder.

    Well lately we're up to enough other things that are a national disgrace, that are causing foreign governmens to scratch their heads in wonder....
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