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Lincoln MKS

ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
I open this forum up for the Lincoln MKS "concept", just released by Ford at NAIAS 2006.

The full size luxury sport sedan Active All Wheel Drive featuring a 315HP 4.4L DOHC V8 based on the D3 architecture. This vehicle supposedly replaced the LS, and one of 2 sedans for Lincoln to debut in the next 2 years.
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Comments

  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Ford Media

    This link shows more detailed information...
  • Looks like Infiniti M45 with Acura front and rear clips.
    Nice wheels though.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Yes, it should sell much better than current Lincolns--but it is not Lincoln-esque. It is safe, derivative.

    The hype with the introduction says, “People want refinement, rather than ostentation. Lincoln MKS is a luxury car that doesn’t need to shout – it captivates with a whisper.” You might as well say, "we wanted to play it safe and conservative, because we really aren't inspired yet." I think that's fine for Toyotas and Lexuses, which sell more on quality than style.

    Lincoln needs to grab some attention. A little ostentation on a well-screwed together car would help a lot.
  • fsmmcsifsmmcsi Posts: 792
    It is a super Five Hundred, and seems to have addressed everything which kept me from buying a Five Hundred, but I'll only consider one if the price is a several thousand dollars more than a Five Hundred, not $15,000 or $20,000 more.
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    I wonder how the next generation CTS will play in the competition.

    The current CTS can perform with the Lincoln, but fell short on interior quality and its polarizing exterior kept many away.

    The MKS is going to be a larger car (on the outside anyway) than the LS. 194 inches to 203 inches may not seem like a lot to suburban types. In the city where I live those extra 9 inches may as well be a mile.

    Plus, the dynamics of the D3 platform will be AWD with rear wheel bias, not pure RWD. The CTS will be RWD with possible AWD option.

    If the GM can make the new CTS exterior more broadly acceptable without losing its character and follow through on interior quality, some LS fans may start looking at its US competitor over the MKS.

    I will say that I really like the interior, front view and the wheels on the MKS prototype.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    I doubt the MKS is aimed at the CTS. It's size indicates it is more an STS or DTS competitor. Lincoln needs a new LS/CTS sized sedan. Perhaps that will be the second one they are designing off the D3 architecture?
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    I hope so.

    That is what I cannot figure out.

    The Zephyr is definitely not in the same league the LS plays in. The MKS seems too big and heavy to truly carry the mantle.

    Is Ford surrendering this part of the market, or does it have something new up its sleeve?
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Well that's a loaded question. Originally the LS and CTS battled the "Entry luxury" segment, which ideally were direct competitors. Both entry sedans to luxury domestic makers, with European dynamics.

    Ford repositioned the LS above the Zephyr, so if you wish to call the Zephyr the direct competitor to CTS, it actually is in segment and price. Although it's different markets/demographics which each is targeting. So you may do with that information as you wish.

    The MKS in ideology is really the replacement to the LS, BUT it's mission is a bit different, and placed above the Zephyr in segment and pricing.

    The MKS will very much be a great handler, don't let the AWD or exterior size fool you. And the even larger sedan, has yet to be released...
  • laxmanlaxman Posts: 30
    Any comparison specs for the Mark S? As you stated the MKS is the "replacement" for the LS. Which models are they competing with?

    So when will we see the longer version? I have a feeling it will be called the MKC. Tag line: "Just because we call it the "Continental" doesn't mean you can't drive it all over the world." :shades: ANT14, you think Lincoln could use that in a commercial? Probably sounds to much like a Lexus commercial :(

    I like the name. A page from ANT14's script style

    Buddy: What car is that?
    Me: It's a Mark S
    Buddy: Lincoln is it?
    Me: Yep
    Buddy: I use to have a Mark VII. Boy that thing could get up and go.
    Me: I guess it is like what Ford did with the T-Bird. A new take on old legend.
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    You may some pretty good points.

    Things are changing at Lincoln, that is for sure. The MKS concept is interesting enough to keep me waiting to see how it works out.
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    I posted: You may some pretty good points

    Originally wrote: you may have a pretty good point. Meant to edit as you make some pretty good points. Oh well :blush:
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    Specs here... LINK
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    Notice the low RPM at which this version of the 4.4 develops its power - if correct, the tuning must be quite a bit different from version used in the Volvo X90.

    Chassis tuning will be a critical component in whether the MKS finds a home in my garage. I hope they don't go all-out hard-edged "sport" sedan with this - yet certainly not blue-hair soft either. I have always thought the ride/handling balance of the non-sport LS was perfect for the potholed streets and expansion joint filled freeways here in Minneapolis. Will we be looking at standard (fairly compliant) and optional "sport" suspension versions of the MKS?

    Also, they will need to pay attention to road and wind noise isolation. How about Lexus levels of quiet yet with just enough induction and exhaust rumble under acceleration to make it interesting?

    Lastly, I really hope they sweat some of the details. If I open the hood and am greeted by a prop-rod, I will be tempted to jerk out the rod and beat someone with it.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,174
    :D "Lastly, I really hope they sweat some of the details. If I open the hood and am greeted by a prop-rod, I will be tempted to jerk out the rod and beat someone with it."

    Too funny :D . Would like to see Lincoln offer up this new ride in a "one size fits all" package like Acura does. Make NAV and RES separate entities on the checkoff sheet, but make Leather seating, HIDS, Premium Sound, TCS, VSC, all the goodies STANDARD across the board. It really helps the image as a Premium nameplate. A coupe and Conv. option should be in the works to keep the momentum, and don't let this one languish on the lots unchanged (and unmarketed :mad: ) like the outgoing LS!

    Customer doesn't want all those goodies can fall back on the Mercury Montego or 500. :)
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    The drivability of the vehicle will be LS sporty, but (for those with the optional 17inch wheels on the LS), less "noise" or vibration when hitting potholes. You know you hit it, but not be as aware as you are with the LS. At least, that has been my experience.

    And the interior will be much quieter than that of the LS. Which in turn, some of the interior materials will require re-thinking, since some resonate sounds, more than others. It's amazing how something as the materials, can contribute to overall noise.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    Yes, I agree no need for a stripped down version. I think the LS message was a little muddled because you had the V6 with no options trying to be entry level and the loaded V8s going after the luxury-sport sedan crowd.

    ANT, I haven't seen the weight listed anywhere. With the 4.4, can we expect 0-60 times in the high 5/low 6 range? By the way, based on your description, the driving dynamics sound very appealing.

    Don't forget - no prop-rods. ;)
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    This is from Edmunds web site:

    "What's Edmunds' Take?
    Although inoffensive, the MKS just isn't pretty or interesting enough to bring Lincoln back from the dead. Or Oldsmobile for that matter. — Ed Hellwig"

    That is what I was afraid of...other people seeing what I see...too safe, too derivative, in a market that is exploding with innovation and high tech quality. Again, let me say, the MKS is far better than anything Lincoln offers now (the last LS perhaps an exception). But by the time it is introduced, it will be even more yesterday's news. It's sad that a division that produced the original Zephyr, the Marks I, II, III, VII and VIII, the 1960s Lincoln Continentals, etc., can only give us proposals for safe and contemporary stuff. Let the designers loose, for godsake!
  • And don't put that awful Ford center stack of late, black or silver - does not matter. Take lessons from Germans and Toyota/Honda/Mazda about interiors. It is not funny anymore.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    I am not surprised by Edmunds' take. I like it but when I look at the MKS concept, I admit that I see some Aurora, Maxima, Lexus styling cues - not exactly breaking new ground.

    Lincoln had a concept a few years back that picked up the early 60's Continental theme and I loved it. Then Chrysler comes to market with a similar slab-sided, high beltline, wide "C" pillar 300 and has a hit on their hands. Now the "ring" is out of the bell so it would be difficult for Lincoln to pick up their own heritage cues - Chrysler has already done it! (I think Lincoln could have done it more tastefully, though.)

    Having said all that, I am just glad to see Lincoln doing something! Since 1999, after the LS was introduced, Lincoln division has seemingly been brain-dead. The MKS shows that there is a glimmer of life left. I think the rear end view needs some tweaking but, overall, I am encouraged.
  • There's also some info up on a lincoln site (about this and the other concept MKX) -- lincoln.com/reachhigher
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    OK, found my way over here from the LS board.

    My 2 cents: It does borrow from some existing designs, but what doesn't? (except for the CTS) That said, I'm not a fan of the shapes of the new Lexus LS/GS cars and this Lincoln does seem to have some of that. I do love the front end though, it says Lincoln, not Acura or anything else. Don't know where folks get that. But the rear end has got to go. It's practically identical to the last Olds Aurora, which was a big step DOWN in my book from the original Aurora. This car would do better to emulate the original's full-width tail lights than the obscure design they've got there now. Of course full-width lights probably add $8.00 to the cost of the car so that'll kill them.

    Lastly, what's the deal with showing us this concept in Jan of 2006 when unless I'm totally misinformed, the actual car is to be released later this year? I mean, there's no time to change anything on the actual vehicle is there? And if the real vehicle is pretty well locked in and this concept 'hints' at it and if history repeats, the real car will be dumbed down by the bean counters and will suffer in comparison to this concept so all Lincoln will have done is whet our appetites for caviar and then serve up a filet o' fish. IMHO of course.

    (Case in point - the Zephyr concept had a beautifully clean and appealing tail treatment. The real Zephyr rear end looks fat and cheap in comparison.)
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    I don't think I've commented yt about the new alphabet names, so I'll do it here and now and to be perfectly clear my opinion is: "BLECH" (could that be a future name?) ANd, BTW, are we supposed to say "Em Kay Ess" or "Mark Ess" I'd bet money that you'd get both answers from Lincoln marketing depending on who you asked.

    I think it is too STOOPID for words, or TLAs that they're doing this. Dumb. No reason for it. Lincoln marketing is clueless. I swear to all that's right with the world, I despise marketers (being an engineer) and yet I have no doubt that I could do a far better job marketing Lincoln than anyone currently in that position.

    I hope I've made myself clear.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    I just read the auto extremists' take on the Lincoln offerings at the Detroit auto show and I gotta say, he's right on again. (I think he's been reading some of my posts on Edmunds:>)

    First off, there's a picture identified as the "Emm Kay Exx" or Aviator and it does not look like the one recently seen on the LS board. I mean specifically the front end has horizontal chrome grillework - similar to the Fusion yet what I've seen for the mkx was egg crate. Oh well, they're both ugly. The Auto-Ex guy hated it.

    Then there's some pictures of the Emm Kay Ess and the tail treatment looks different yet from what I saw at ANTs link. Not quite so Aurora-ish, but still not good. The Auto-Ex guy hated the Mark S too.

    Finally, he resurrected pictures of the Continental concept Lincoln showed in 2002 and I totally agree with him that it's 100% better than the emm kay ess. Maybe 200% better. I encourage anyone interested to go the auto extremeist site and check out the pix of the continental concept. Then we should all email Lincoln and ask just what the he** they are doing.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Agreed. The Em Kay Ess will not turn Lincoln around (hey guys, the Lexus GS has always seemed to be the least popular Lexus styling). The Continental concept in production form would have been a hot seller. Too controversial for the marketing types though, I guess.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    Glad you are here to shake things up, Heyjewel!

    ANT can clear this up but my understanding was that the Mark S concept should reach production in 2007 as a 2008 model. If so, there would be time to tweak it a bit. Unfortunately, production versions seldom are an improvement over concepts. Your example of the Zephyr makes that point very well.

    As I said earlier, that 2002 Continental concept was awesome and would have been distinctly Lincoln. A huge opportunity was missed there.

    As for the names, I agree with you, but after driving a great car with no name (the LS) for 6 years, I guess I will just have to accept the hodgepodge of letters and if anyone asks what I drive, say "a Lincoln."
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    I just read the auto extremists' take on the Lincoln offerings at the Detroit auto show and I gotta say, he's right on again. (I think he's been reading some of my posts on Edmunds:>)
    Well, I think AE looked at a couple of mine as well...
    Seriously, while I could easily see myself driving a six speed manual LS V8, the MKS leaves me cold. Derivative styling with sizzle emphasized over steak; I predict that it will end up being known as the DOA.
  • ANT14ANT14 Posts: 2,687
    It's a 2008 model, to be released in early 2007. And it's not much of a hint, rather, 90% of it, is being shown. Yes, certain things are still being tweaked before final version.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    I am looking at the Mark S from two different viewpoints.

    First, as an enthusiast who is pretty hard-headed Ford loyal, I agree with most of the criticisms already noted. My preference would have been a rear drive platform, (stretched Mustang platform but with IRS) a real name, (Continental) more original styling, (2002 concept) and a Ford engine. (4.6 DOHC with VVT)

    However, I am also looking at the Mark S from a serious buyer's standpoint. I will likely OWN one of these unless something changes for the worse. I like the Volvo DNA. I hear very good things about the Yamaha engine, even though I cringe a little at the thought. While not too original, I like the looks better than about anything else in its class. Ford interiors keep getting better. With the transverse engine, this thing will have a ton of room in it compared to the LS - probably similar to a Ford 500. Since the platform will be pretty high volume, the cost should be very competitive.

    Am I crazy to want one of these to replace my LS V8? Anyone else think they would buy one based on what you have seen?
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