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Lincoln MKS



  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Yes TOWING! One of the uses for a big car which you and your ilk refuse to acknowledge is that big cars are good for TOWING. I don't want to be forced to use an SUV or a pickup if I want to tow something. And don't give me that "$40,000" argument. Growing up I saw PLENTY of big Cadillacs, Lincolns, Buicks, and Oldsmobiles that cost the equivalent of $40,000 in their era with trailer hitches in the back pulling Airstreams, boats, and the like. You also don't seem to have a problem with people using big luxury SUVs that cost that much and more for towing. Typical.

    And towing crashes, for miles traveled, were much higher in those days. So were highway fatalities. Drunk driving wasn't even illegal then.

    I would much rather tow an airstream or ski boat with an Explorer or F150 than a Biscane or 210, or 88 or GM. That is my personal view though.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    You may not like BOF cars anymore, and that is your business. But don't tell us what to like and don't try to tell Ford that they are doing the right thing by neglecting/ignoring us.

    I and many others still want big, BOF cars with long overhangs. That does not make us criminals or worthy of insults and being talked down to.

    Everyone is free to voice their opinions, to like what they like, that whole pursuit of happiness thing.
  • Thank you for respecting the TC even though you are a BMW person. You realize that although the TC is not your cup of tea, it is still a usefull vehicle worthy of respect and understand why some people do like them. I don't understand why that is so hard for other people to do.

    I have owned a couple of BMWs, and they were wonderful sporting machines. I am a universal type car lover, thus I can appreciate any car for what it is and what it does well, rather than knock it for what is, what it can't do or isn't good at.
  • gent70360gent70360 Posts: 33
    I have come to the realization that I am lamenting the passing of an icon. One of my early cars was my dad's old 1969 Lincoln Mark111. Yes, there was a trailer hitch for pulling a boat. It's 460 cubic inch engine pulled our 18 foot boat without a problem. I also remember something like 7 miles per gallon near the end of its life at an age of 11 years.

    The MKS platform is big enough for me. I would call it a big car. I just wish it had a softer ride option to go along with what in earlier times they would have called a touring option. Instead, they have something in the middle. Oh, softer seats would be nice.

    Would an updated panther based car sell? I guess we will never know that answer now. By the way, I am feeling a much better now that I cooled off a bit. Sorry if I offended anyone.
  • savethelandsavetheland Posts: 671
    "So if Lincoln had made the MKS a RWD sedan like the mighty Lexus LS then it would have sold 700 units last month instead of the 1300 units that it actually sold? Or 595 like the GS series?"

    I bet my life on Lexus making more profit on 700 units it sells than Ford on 1300 MKS units that most likely sell at discount and there is a good reason - because prevailing opinion is (e.g. MT) that these Taurus clones are overpriced.

    "The Genesis is a nice vehicle but even Lincoln dealers look good compared to taking your car to a Hyundai dealer"

    That simply is not true. All Lincoln dealers merged into Ford dealerships last couple of years. I used to go to Fremont Lincoln/Mercury for service - not anymore. Selling Lincolns along with Fords alone is indication to most people that Lincolns are not truely luxury vehicles and are over-priced - you can compare Lincoln price with its Ford clone right at the same spot on FordLincoln dealership
  • Lilengineer, the market for in this country for two seat roadsters like Corvettes and Miatas has never been huge, but it still exists. No matter how small the market is for them however, I still believe that people who want them should be able to purchase them. So why can't the same respect be afforded to those of us who want BOF big cars? Also, I doubt that more Corvettes and Miatas are sold than Panthers, but if they are, it can't be by much, and all that that means is that the market for both vehicles types are small. Therefore, why does one market deserve to be served and the other doesn''t? That's my whole point. Both markets should be served.

    "Change" has nothing to do with it. There is no reason why big BOF cars should not exist. It has nothing to do with "Progress" or any other buzzwords. A usefull car type is a usefull car type, period, regardless of what year it is. The internal combustion engine, turbochargers, superchargers, and the very idea of the car itself are all 19th century technology. Does that mean that they are irrelevant or out of date? I think not.

    Yes, I feel that the big BOF car is an automotive icon.

    There are not many car types that I don't like, but there are individual models that I don't like, and if I don't like them, I will say so. However, the difference with me is that I will not act like my personal opinion is gospel and come up with all kinds of elaborate "Reasons" why the car should not exist, insult it or the people who like it, and say the automaker is stupid for building it and should not build it anymore simply because I don't like it. THAT'S the difference.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Don't give me that the market and competition "Has shited" stuff. Talk to me about automakes NEGLECTING certain platforms and having ZERO advertising for certain cars. And don't tell me what to embrace either. BOF sedans may not makes sense anymore TO YOU, but your word nor your opinion are law. BOF sedans STILL make sense to me and others, which is why they STILL sell. Let us like them and leave us be. Ha! LOL! Has shited stuff? Wow. Oh and we'll let you be...just like the manufacturers are doing. BTW, I do think it is sad when there is a market for something, even if small, that companies do not continue to provide for it. The Miata Mx5 is a very small market. But it still exists and still gets served.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    The MKS platform is big enough for me. I would call it a big car. I just wish it had a softer ride option to go along with what in earlier times they would have called a touring option. Instead, they have something in the middle. Oh, softer seats would be nice.

    That makes sense and I can understand that. I think it has had extremes in the past, when early 90s Regal T-Type had 50 series tires and jack hammer suspension and the standard model had 80 series tires and was so wallowy it made you carsick. I think that made the automakers a bit gunshy. Even my Contour (mid-90s SE trim) had the sport suspension while the LX had the softer ride.

    Increasing the tire sidewall height and decreasing the shock firmness seems like it would go along way towards meeting your needs.

    Have you tried the seats in the Volvo S60 and BMW 5-series? It seems like Ford is trying to use similar technologies.

    '09 Lincoln MKS press kit
  • Please forgive my spelling error. I meant to say "SHIFTED", but I am not the best typist in the world, and I am hot headed and passionate about cars, so my posts may not be the best spelled efforts in the world. :sick: :sick: :) :)

    Now, on to the subject.

    You are displaying your bias again by chiding me for being angry at the automakers for ignoring the small market that I belong to (Buyers of big BOF sedans), yet agreeing that small markets that you like (Buyers of two seat roadsters) should be catered to. You also added a nice little snide, condescending remark. Thanks for making my point for me Gregg!
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,665
    What you guys want is simply a soft, cushy ride in a big sedan. It doesn't have to be BOF - they could give you that in a Taurus or MKS if they wanted to. Problem is they believe they will sell more vehicles with a firmer ride and better handling suspension so that's what they design.

    Is Ford abandoning the panther fans? Yes. If there was really a future market in those types of vehicles don't you think ONE of the other mfrs would be rushing to fill that void? They're not.

    I had a 2000 Lincoln LS that was discontinued, and the MKS is not a good replacement. It's a different type of vehicle. Many LS owners feel betrayed, but I understand the business reasons.

    It happens. Ask the people who want manual transmissions in midsize and large V6 and V8 sedans. They are virtually non-existent outside of very expensive super high performance models. You can't blame the mfrs - blame the consumers who stopped buying them.

    In your case - blame the other consumers who decided they wanted firmer suspensions with better handling and steering.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Um...excuse me sir, but I was AGREEING with you. That's why I put the Miata example in. If that is done (and it is), then it stands to reason that a niche market could be made for your preferred ride as well. I was neither snide nor condescending. I was trying to make your point.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    It happens. Ask the people who want manual transmissions in midsize and large V6 and V8 sedans. They are virtually non-existent outside of very expensive super high performance models. You can't blame the mfrs - blame the consumers who stopped buying them.

    Yup,and not just V6 and V8s; you won't believe how much that limits my buying options (not that I would want an MKS with a stick, although the LS with a stick was a lot of fun).
  • datagendatagen Posts: 107
    For those whom have had this problem, (music popping sound coming from the speakers. Especially during a cold morning or evening. Have to cut the car off and restart it to make the popping sound go away). Turns out Lincoln is well aware of this problem. You will need to take it in to the service department where they will do an upgrade of the software. It will take about 45 minutes to complete the procedure.
    As the owner of a restored '86 Porsche, an '06 Grand Marquis, and now, an '09 MKS, I can make a somewhat impartial assessment on handling, comfort, and performance of these vehicles.

    Obviously, for fun and spirited driving, the Porsche cannot be beat. For comfort, luxury, and competent performance and handling, the MKS has it all over the Grand Marquis. in every category. Not being an engineer, I would not presume to debate the advantages of BOF vs Unibody, I can only relay my seat-of -the-pants impressions.

    By the way, my greatest disappointment with the GM was when I realized (not having done my pre-purchase homework) that despite having the 4.6L V8, the towing limit for the GM is a paltry 1000 lbs, not even enough for a small UHaul rental. I understand this is a result of transmission trade-offs to facilitate greater fuel economy (same as the MKS), but I thought a V8, BOF, RWD land yacht would have SOME towing capacity.
  • izaclown1izaclown1 Posts: 116
    As far as the towing weight, I thought it was the suspension and not so much the transmission. The TC has a low weight. If you look at other models of the GM, some are 2500 pounds of towing. I could be out in left field, but I think that is the research I ran across while back.
  • You just don't get it man. I don't care that I can get a big non BOF sedan with a soft, cushy ride, the facts are that I WANT A BOF BIG SEDAN WITHA A SOFT, CUSHY RIDE. And I don't care that no other manufacturer is not rushing to fill the BOF void, nor do I care that YOU don't care that we Panther fans are being abandoned. No matter how small of a market we Panther fans are, if other tiny markets like those for two seat roadsters and high performance SUVs can be served, then so can we. We Panther fans have been loyal buyers and we deserve some loyalty in return. so please spare me your "There is no market for BOF big cars" talk.

    There are PLENTY of LS replacements you could by. The LS was a high performance luxury midsize sedan. Those are NOT exactly rare.

    I feel the MKS is a good replacement for the 95 to 02 Continental. A big FWD luxury cruiser.

    Here we go with the "Everyone wants a sports sedan" crap. Yes, they said that while big luxury sedans, BOF and not, were selling like hot cakes. Whatever, seriously WHATEVER.
  • Sorry Gregg. I misread your post.
  • Yup nothing.

    Now how would YOU like it if we told you:

    "Stop crying because the automakers won't give you a stick with big engine sports sedans".

    "If sports sedans with big engines and sticks were in high demand, then the automakers would MAKE them! They don't, so NOBODY wants them, DUH!"

    "The automakers are SMART not to offfer no stupid big engined sports sedans with sticks, nobody wants that junk, which is why they sell in such small numbers!"

    "Those of you who want a stick in a big engined sport sedan need to just accept an automatic or a manumatic. It's called progress, sticks are old, outdated technology! Grow up and get with the times!"

    "You want a big engined sport sedan with a stick? Too bad. The manufacturers don't make that slow selling junk anymore, and good that they don't!"

    Doesn't feel so good eh?
  • The idiotic towing numbers for the GM are not the fault of the car, they are the fault of the idiotic automakers trying to deliberately make the cars as unappealing as possible so they can then have an excuse to abandon the model. Then they will run to the handling obsessed car magazines and their equally handling obsessed readers and scream "See, we dropped ours stupid, useless barges! Can you please like us/buy our imitation foreign cars that we waste, er spend all our time and money on now? Please? PLEASE!?"

    Which of course will not happen. Such people will continue to forsake domestics for their superior handling Japanese and Euros, and the domestic makers will continue to lose buyers, market share, and alienate their shrinking pool of buyers.

    Make Panthers and the like less appealing to their core audience with stupid crap like those idiotic tow ratings and other foolishness, all the while knowing that BMW/Accord people will NEVER buy them. What a smart business model! No wonder the domestics are in such hot water.
  • datagendatagen Posts: 107
    I have to agree with you up to a point. True they are in hot water and true they caused many of their own problems. From their years of arrogance of the Japanese and Euro to pumping the market with gas hogs, they can share much of the blame. I do believe we are at fault as well. Our demands for what we wanted were not strong enough to the point to where the big three were slapped into their senses. I do feel that at lease Ford shook their head after the slap and realized that they can not make it on the Mustang and F150 alone. When I read many comments that the MKS does not have enough of this, or not enough of that, I get the feeling that the engineers were able to get their point across to the Execs and attempt in the creation of a balance automobile out the gate. Their first attempt was not bad, but with everything else, improvements can always be made.

    For those who have not purchased a MKS yet and with all the talk about ride and comfort, let me report what I have found. Mine has the 20 inch rims and the ride was pretty stiff at first. I first thought that it would stay that way because of the low platform tires, but in my 5 month, the ride seems to have improved and has become much smoother. Here in my area we have some very serious chuck holes from the winter and the MKS seems to handle them surprisingly well. On long trips I have notice the seat becomes uncomfortable and I have heard other comments in this same area. I will have to admit after 3 hours of straight driving, I am sure anything would not feel good. The engine noise is noticeable when wanting serious performance from it. It may be a little louder than other luxury cars, but I though maybe this may have been the balancing act the engineers were trying to achieve between luxury and sportiness.

    I am not trying to make excuses for the MKS, It is far from the perfect auto and there are some quirks I do have about it. But again for the attempt towards balance, I believe I understand their plan and applaud them for it.
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