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Lincoln MKS

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Comments

  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    NV,

    thanks for the report pal. :)

    Loren, is still confused about Lincoln, not being able to surpass Cadillac, with its new quality offerings. Maybe one day he will test drive one and fall in love like this once devout GM/Caddy fan. :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Loren, you lost your mind pal thinking Lincoln, can't challenge Cadillac. Just wait until the new Sexy girl arrives called MKS :shades: She will not only whip the STS in Gadgetology, but will do it alot cheaper. :P

    Rocky
  • Yes, the new quality offerings - The nearly identical Mark LT/F150 pair, The mechanically identical Town Car/Crown Vic Pair on a 30-year old chassis, The identical Edge/MK? pair or the Mexican built Mazda Zephyr which has the Ford Edge engine?
    The only thing hinted as coming is the schizophrenic MKS which will definitely have a V-6 or maybe a V-8 or perhaps a TT V-6 when it comes out in 2007,2008,2009 or 2010.

    I'll bet Cadillac is scared.

    Note: The above post was in response to Rocky's previous post (which has been edited about 5 times) in which he said there was "no way Cadillac could ever compete with Lincolns new quailty offerings"
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I'll bet Cadillac is scared.

    They already are scared because the MKX, is way better than the SRX, the MKZ is twice the vehicle the CTS, ever was and the MKS, will be what the STS/DTS, dreamed of being. The Navigator is a worthy competitor to the Escalade. The only missing link is the Lincoln Mark LT, which I'm confident will be a better Sierra Denali/Escalade EXT competitor :P

    Lincoln, on like Cadillac at the momment has actually Reached Higher :P

    Rocky
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Note: The above post was in response to Rocky's previous post (which has been edited about 5 times) in which he said there was "no way Cadillac could ever compete with Lincolns new quailty offerings"

    Speaking of editing you just did the same with this brand new line. :D

    Cadillac, hasn't or will not compete with Lincoln new line-up in the terms of price. Lincoln, like Acura has become the brand of where the consumer gets more car for the money. Cadillac, has went upmarket in price, but not in its product offering. The Lincoln MKZ, has a interior that is light years ahead of Cadillacs finest offerings. Look at Wards award for further reference scootertrash. ;)

    Rocky
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    Oh, man, Rocky, you sound like a kid yelling "mine's better than yours!" You really think these rehashed Fords are better cars than others because they sport better interior styling? Love your current "Lincolns" but realize most people who care about luxury cars want Lincoln to reach higher.

    To each his own, I guess, but may I point out again that Cadillac isn't the one with the big market share loss these past few years? And you know yourself that the 2008 CTS isn't the only new thing coming down the pike from Cadillac.

    So whatever Lincoln does for the next few years will have to be catchup. And, BTW, I hope they do, because Lincoln often did have a better way of going, even if Cadillac was practically always more popular. But I haven't seen anything yet that is going to set the world beyond Rocky on fire. I really really wish I did.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Oh, man, Rocky, you sound like a kid yelling "mine's better than yours!" You really think these rehashed Fords are better cars than others because they sport better interior styling? Love your current "Lincolns" but realize most people who care about luxury cars want Lincoln to reach higher.

    gregg, if it wasn't for the Escalade, and some how miracle selling current CTS, Cadillac would be in the same boat as Lincoln. I don't think they are significantly better cars but a great interior, gadgetology., at a great price thousands below Cadillac and Lexus, is a start. It works for Honda, just look at Acura. Now granted Ford needs to build new platforms which needs to be good enough for Lincoln, but at the same time be high volume enough to keep costs down. If it's a great platform, and if the company can save money on it I'm all for it. This also allows the company, to concentrate on interior design, gadgetology., and even touches like available AWD at a low price. If Lincoln/Ford/Volvo, can develop few platforms but make the ones they have great I see no harm in it. Again if it adds value to the consumer.

    To each his own, I guess, but may I point out again that Cadillac isn't the one with the big market share loss these past few years? And you know yourself that the 2008 CTS isn't the only new thing coming down the pike from Cadillac.

    Well how much is that new CTS going to cost us ? I love GM, but their cars are getting very pricey for what you get. Where's the ventilated seats, DVD-Audio surround sound, the quality engine, 6-speed automatic, adaptive cruise, swivel headlamps, pre-collision, etc, etc, for that $45K sticker price ????? The CTS, isn't much of a value IMHO. The 2008' could be better but we will see. ;) The MKS however looks like it will undercut the STS by several thousands and be a helluva car, for the money. If Ford, keeps to it words of adding even more Gadgets one might be parked in my garage. A 3.7 Twin Turbo engine with paddle shifters or some other manumatic with a boost gauge with 350-400 hp. would be very impressive. GM, needs to overhaul the old Northstar, and make it a modern OHC like the Japanese. Both GM, and Ford, desperately need new modern engines.

    So whatever Lincoln does for the next few years will have to be catchup.

    Catch up to who ? The MKZ, is better and several thousands cheaper than the CTS, The MKX, is better than the SRX and cheaper too, The Navigator is almost as nice as the Escalade, but does lack the engine. However it to is cheaper. Lexus, is over-priced in some segments but like Mercedes, they are more of a status symbol.

    And, BTW, I hope they do, because Lincoln often did have a better way of going, even if Cadillac was practically always more popular.

    I'm not exactly sure what you meant by this ? :confuse:

    But I haven't seen anything yet that is going to set the world beyond Rocky on fire. I really really wish I did.

    Is Lincoln suppose to set the world on fire like lets say a BMW M3 or M5 ? I suppose they could build one to compete but then at what cost ?

    Lincoln, has flat out "reached higher" for 2007, than any other luxury brand. I see a positive future for Lincoln and perhaps this Alan Maulkey? the new Ford CEO, will be the difference maker. :)

    We will see soon....

    Rocky
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    Ok, Rocky, let's agree to disagree. I don't mean to be disagreeable about it...I just cannot see what you are describing. Lincoln right now looks to me a mishmash of hastily conceived products (a dressed up Fusion, a barely dressed up F150, a barely changed Edge, a laughably old underpowered TC). The MKS will be the first new Lincoln in years to have its own body, interior and engine...but its not here for more than a year yet, and--even though I know you like the Acura/Lexus/BMW shape--I note that none of the auto press is particularly impressed. (And that has nothing to do with it being made by one of the quasi-big two.)

    In sum, I hope you are right and I am wrong. Have a great day.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    OK, rocky my friend, your posts are beginning to get tiresome, redundant, really silly and basically incorrect.

    First, u need to preface sentences like this:
    "The MKZ, is better and several thousands cheaper than the CTS, The MKX, is better than the SRX and cheaper too ..." with "IMHO" because you are probably the only person in the world familiar with these vehicles who seems to believe this. And dump the unneeded commas will ya?

    Here's another in need of an IMO: "Lincoln, has flat out "reached higher" for 2007, than any other luxury brand..."
    And I'll add: reaching is one thing, doing is another.

    You describe how Cadillac isn't really doing well (huh?) except for the Escalade (which is KILLING the Navigator and will continue to do so - IMHO) and the 'miracle' selling CTS? C'mon rock, that's what it's all about. To SELL cars. They sell if people like them. The CTS is at least the equal of the LS. And Caddy didn't fold on the enthusiast market like Lincoln did when they dropped the manual option from the LS. No, instead, Caddy went further and brought out the performance-oriented CTS-V that we were BEGGING Lincoln to do with the LS. Instead, Lincoln apparently decided to go back to pursuing the blue-hair market it knows so well, which may explain their use of the STOOPID 'D-L' shift gate on all their new cars that you love so much and are filled with such 'gadgetology'.
    And that's another point, you imply that Lincoln has all this stuff that Caddy doesn't, yet many of the gadgets you list are features on Lexus, not Lincoln. Have u confused the two brands?
    And you say "Now granted Ford needs to build new platforms which needs to be good enough for Lincoln, but at the same time be high volume enough to keep costs down" So which is it - everything is A#1 right now, better than everyone else? -OR- they desperately need new platforms. C'mon man, read your own posts.
    You continue "If Lincoln/Ford/Volvo, can develop few platforms but make the ones they have great I see no harm in it. Again if it adds value to the consumer" THis is nothing but a DUH moment. Of course IF they make GREAT platforms they can make GREAT cars. But unfortunately, ...
    BTW, rock, did you know that Volvo IS coming out with a new much-improved platform for the S80??? And did you also know that your sexy mks will NOT get it? YES, that's right, Volvo gets the new one, Lincoln gets the hand-me-down. ANOTHER reason for me to ask: why wait for the MKS when the same S80 is available NOW and a better S80 will be available when the mks comes out? In addition, just the fact that Lincoln gets Volvos old shoes oughtta tell ya where Lincoln sits in Fords eyes vis-a-vis luxury brands. So don't look for the S to "out-luxury" the Volvo.
    You also claim to know the sticker price of the MKS will be below the CTS. I don't KNOW the price of the MKS but I can practically GUARANTEE it will be higher than the CTS becasue it will be a larger car in a different market.
    ANd it's almost sad to see you hoping for paddle shifters and a boost guage etc. Rocky kindly go to the nearest Lincoln dealer and look in the Z. Do u see paddle shifters? Do you even see a choice of more than 2 forward gears? Now look in the Town Car. Paddle shifters? Now look in the ... oh, that's it for Lincoln cars isn't it. You could look in the MKX and find the same lack of anything resembling driver control gadgets but they can't even ship the GD thing.
    So please, man, I'm beggin ya to post actual data, not made upo stuff from your pipe dreams. Then we can have an intelligent conversation.
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    I'm tired of arguing it is getting old and tiresome. we agree here. I never said the MKS, would be priced below the CTS. I said it would be priced below the STS. The old Volvo platform was a good one and will do the MKS, well IMHO. I agree the CTS, outsold the LS, but who wouldn't want a CTS, over a LS. The LS, was a underpowered pile of doo doo. The paddle shifter reference would be something I'd like to see in the MKS (a suggestion, not MY facts) The Lincoln MKS, being built on the old S80 platform will allow it to be priced in the $50K range not the mid $60K range like I priced up my last 2007' Volvo S80. I like the 07' S80, alot but they went really upmarket and out of my affordability.

    Rocky

    P.S.

    Sorry I'm not a English grammer major like yourself. Blame my teachers. ;)
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Okay fair enough. We are kicking a dead horse. We can argue it out when the car arrives. AGREE ?

    Thanx,

    Rocky
  • You have to love the mentality of someone who can't spell the word grammar but says it's their teacher's fault.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    "I'm tired of arguing it is getting old and tiresome"

    I agree. I gotta go wash my hair...

    PS: Before I go, a big mea culpa (apology) I reread your post and indeed you did compare price of mks to sts not cts. I'm tired of all these letters:>)
  • "Okay fair enough. We are kicking a dead horse. We can argue it out when the car arrives. AGREE ? "

    Does that mean you promise not to hijack any more topics with your uninformed rantings for the next few years?
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    ROTFLMAO :>)

    OK, back to the hair ...
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    scootertrash,

    First, I'd put my knowledge of the auto-industry and brain up against yours any day. Secondly, You might be able to spell better and punctuate better than me but that's about it IMHO. Thirdly, calling me "uninformed" is like the pot calling the kettle black. ;)

    I don't understand why you can't disagree with me without personal attacks ? Seriously what have I ever done to you ? I have my opinions and you have yours. I don't fall off my rocker every time I disagree with you. I try my best to get along with everyone on edmunds. I enjoy talking about cars with most of the folks on here and that includes people I often disagree with. Loren, iluv, I disagree with often but I still enjoy and respect their point of view no matter how crazy it can sometimes get.

    Have a good day scootertrash

    Rocky

    P.S.

    Now back to the MKS ;)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 17,673
    The LS, was a underpowered pile of doo doo.

    what??
    There is NO WAY I can agree with that. 0-60 in the low 6s on stock tires on a luxo-sedan is NOT underpowered. And if it has better aftermarket tires, I could see 6 flat being no problem.

    I went to the LSv8 from a 350Z, so if I wasn't disappointed, I don't see how anyone could be.

    '13 Stang GT; '15 Fit; '98 Volvo S70; '14 Town&Country

  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    I wonder...if the LS was underpowered, what does that make the pretend "Lincoln" (MKZ)?

    The MKS looks as though it will have sufficient power right out of the box. Hope so. It's not going to sell on looks alone...except to a couple of folks that seem smitten with its fat, derivative shape. ;)
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    I think it will sell quite well to the Acura/Lexus/Infiniti crowd which should open up a new customer base for Lincoln.

    That's why I think it can co-exist with a new RWD V8 based flagship to go against the Europeans and GM/DCX.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    Sure it can, and your plan is a good one. Even Cadillac has the DTS (although that will eventually go RWD too.) I just hope Lincoln has the same plan as you do. The MKS will sell, but by itself can neither save Lincoln nor be a true "flagship." They need that RWD sedan too. As long as that RWD is only a definite maybe, Lincoln will be at a disadvantage.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    I think they want a RWD sedan platform, but they got caught with their pants down and don't have one they can use right now. I've heard rumblings of a new platform to be shared with the Aussies which makes a lot of sense. If it's done right there could be a smaller version for the Mustang and a larger version that could support new Lincoln performance flagship and a TC/CV/GM replacement.

    I honestly think this is the direction they're going but I also think they've just started so we won't see anything for 4 years.
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    MEGA-DITTOS
  • heyjewelheyjewel Posts: 1,046
    Ah, an Australian platform. Are there any engineers left in this country?
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,423
    And that's too bad. Part of Ford's problem is that is still takes them over three years to bring anything at all to market. They pretended to do an accelerated development with the GT, but it still took over three years before ordinary customers could take delivery. It can be and is being done faster by others. They have to work on that first.

    Another problem is that Ford Europe and Ford Australia operate so independently of Ford USA that more immediate platform sharing is a problem. Honestly, it really galls me how much these folks were being paid to make such bad decisions. I only hope the Ford family is reassessing their clumsy meddling (now that the stock has tanked and seems poised to remain low) in matters that should have been up to designers, engineers and brand managers who truly know the car business as it exists today.

    Supplier relationships are another problem. And the MKS itself should have been pulled forward, as GM and Chrysler have found ways to do with some models. It is such old news and still nearly a year and a half from showrooms.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    Fields and Mullaly have already said that NA not sharing platforms with Europe and Australia was a huge mistake. They'll be bringing the Euro focus platform to the US as well as a B car (probably from Mazda).

    I think the engineering for a new RWD platform would be done here and shared with the Aussies, not the other way around. But who knows?
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    Scooter is a bit grumpy, but it's not personal.

    You might be able to spell better and punctuate better than me

    Ahem, BTW, it's "Better than I"....... :blush:
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    They'll be bringing the Euro focus platform to the US as well as a B car (probably from Mazda).

    Alan, a B car is smaller than the current Focus, or the same? :confuse:
  • a "B" car is smaller than what our subcompacts have grown into.
    A Honda Fit is the best example.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,747
    As much as I hate to agree with Scooter - he's right. Smaller than the Focus. This will allow the Focus to move a little upmarket and not be the cheap Ford anymore (which it will have to do if it's using the European platfom).
  • Didn't get. Mazda does not have anything below Mazda3 and Mazda3 does not feel low price. Actually it is not cheap in its class.
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