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Lincoln MKS

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  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Sounds good !!!! :shades:

    -Rocky
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    It's not that they didn't want a new RWD platform - but under the old regime they couldn't get the funding necessary to do it. So they made do with the only viable full size platform that was available and went with AWD as a differentiator.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    What you've said here, that Mercury exists only to give Lincoln dealers volume sales, is 180 out from what Mark Fields recently said which is that Lincoln is now the volume brand at the LM dealers.

    Merury has NO reason to exist. For a great article expressing this opinion, go here: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/ford-death-watch-40-mercury-rip/

    One of the more interesting points made in there is that every time Mercury had a product well-differentiated from Ford and Lincoln, the mother company ignored it to death. This is EXACTLY what they did to the LS.

    Past is prologue with Ford. Mercury, unfortunately, probalbly wont see 2010. As a LONG time fan, I will miss it, but in the condition it's in now, let's just put it out of it's misery. Anyone for a Lincon-Mazda dealership?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    What you've said here, that Mercury exists only to give Lincoln dealers volume sales, is 180 out from what Mark Fields recently said which is that Lincoln is now the volume brand at the LM dealers.

    Wrong. I was talking about the present and Fields is talking about the future. Lincoln needs the MKS and MKT (Lincoln version of the Flex) before it will have enough volume to dump Mercury. Right now, today, they still need the Mercury vehicles.

    They're also working to combine the Ford and Lincoln/Mercury dealers and if that happens the Mercury won't be needed for volume and can either be ditched or (my preference) given unique, niche vehicles like a roadster, convertibles, Cougar, etc.

    As for thetruthaboutcars - they're idiots.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    bruce, is this you?:

    "Jim Farley, Ford’s new head of marketing, says MKS customers want dynamic steering, feel, and braking but are not necessarily performance seekers."


    Uhh......NO, it is not. Farley needs to take his Toyota hat off. This sounds like an excuse for introducing the MKS with just a 270 HP V6. Or, maybe there is more to the story. Maybe someone asked him, "Will the MKS compete with high performance sports sedans like the Cadillac CTS-V?" In that case, his answer might be OK.

    The Ecoboost version can't get here soon enough.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    :) Nah, didn't tink so!

    I've looked closely at the MKS on the Lincoln site and I do really like the exterior. I've noticed the site doesn't give one much of a look at the inside. Also the exterior color choices are quite nice.

    I can honestly say that, if my financial situation allows it in the near future, I would consider replacing my LS with a twin turbo AWD version of this car. Course that would be subject to the handling and ride etc of the 'Performace S" Maybe the MKS-GT? :) And how the interior looks and feels close up. Also though it would depend big time on the price and I've got a feeling the S-GT will cost over $50,000 thus priced out of my ballpark.

    Back to Mercury for a second - I learned yesterday that the Prius alone outsold ALL Mercury vehicles combined last year.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    The best view of the interior is in the "build and price" section. You can enlarge the view and change the color.

    The base price of the AWD is $39,105. I could be all wrong about the Ecoboost pricing but I find it hard to believe that they would put a $10,000 premium on it. The whole point was to provide power of a V8 with FE of a V6 and that it be affordable. This is supposed to be techology that trickles down to many Ford models over the next few years.

    Jeyhoe, I think you and I should be the first two on this board to own MKSs!! I can tell that you are warming up to the idea!
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Being quite jetlagged here (and normally dumb and slow as well), I am wondering how to start an MKT discussion...now that the photos are out? (It sure doesn't look like a Flex!)
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    "Jeyhoe, I think you and I should be the first two on this board to own MKSs!! I can tell that you are warming up to the idea!"
    :)
    Well, you'll have to settle for just you, unless someone has a briefcase full of $$$s for me, I wont be buying any $40K or $50K cars for quite a while. Only way? If I could double the mpg of the LS and keep the ride etc. Same for my Navigator. Otherwise I'd be making car payments AND $4.00 gallon gas. Cant do it.

    Besides, I really dont think I'd get one without the more powerful engine. As it is, it's got 5 more hp than your 500, but it's gotta be eating that power up in added weight so I wonder if it'll even keep up with the Ford?

    As for price of ecoboost, I'll bet akirby knows but he aint tellin apparently. We could guess at it since Ford says it'll "pay for itself in 2.5 years where hybrid takes 12 years" If we say hybrids increase mileage by appx %, using Escape as the example ... could be done. I need another cup of Joe before I go further :blush:

    One last thing - I would certainly cross-shop the AWD MKS-GT against the CTS (304hp w/6-speed manual - $33,000 starting) and wife would force Infiniti into the drive-off so on price alone, I think the S would be at a severe disadvantage.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    Hey - I tried to figure out the same thing Saturday for a different purpose - a discussion of the future, if any, of Mercury. I couldnt figure it out either. - WAIT -there it is, right at the top part of this page, right under big orange "Reply to this message" is a link says "Click here to start a new thread..." I'll give it a shot.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Thanks. Knew I could count on you. Plus the sarcasm is always an added bonus!
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    I don't know why I should know the price - don't have a clue other than the reference you mentioned. I think the 2.5 yr payback was based on the I4 Ecoboost getting 5mpg better than a similar powered V6, but I don't remember for sure. I'm guessing it's around $750.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    Besides, I really dont think I'd get one without the more powerful engine. As it is, it's got 5 more hp than your 500, but it's gotta be eating that power up in added weight so I wonder if it'll even keep up with the Ford?

    I might wait for the Ecoboost. I would much prefer it unless they bundle it with an overly harsh suspension or other things that detract from it's "luxury." The price will play a role, too.

    As for the base V6, yes, the power to weight ratio and torque to weight ratio favors the Taurus over the MKS. Maybe the power curves are such that the 3.7 will have quite a bit more power at lower RPM than the 3.5. If that is the case, the MKS might be quicker on the low end than a Taurus. The Taurus 3.5 is quite a bit quicker than my early LS, though. The extra gear is probably as helpful as the extra HP in that comparison.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    gregg - you were able to start a new thread based on my message, but I cannot start a new thread. Somebody at Edmunds don like me?

    akirby - I dunno, you do seem to know more than the average bear about what's happening inside Ford. But $750 for the ecoBoost engine in the mks? Surely you jest?
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    I know some current and former engineers and read other forums with insider info - nothing more than that. And none of those people know anything about prices.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    I originally guessed $1000 extra for the engine. Add to that the AWD which will likely come with it - $1,875. Toss in another $1000 for upgraded suspension/tires/wheels. That will put the MSRP around $42,500 before adding options.

    If I can get my manager to agree to $45,000 plus tax, title, and license, will you buy the car today? ;)
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,380
    I'd go for the 335xi if I were him!

    Regards,
    OW
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    I don't know Jeyhoe personally but I have him pictured as a big strapping body-builder type. He wouldn't fit in a little bitty compact car. :)
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Yep !!! ;)

    -Rocky
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    Sorry, Rocky, but this price doesn't apply to you. I know how you like gadgets and doo-dads! We'll load up an MKS Ecoboost with everything for you and it will come in around $50,000!

    Seriously, as I said earlier, if they can offer a well-equipped MKS with the Ecoboost for under 50 big ones, they have nothing to apologize for. It has taken forever but it could help put Lincoln back on the radar screen.
  • jeyhoejeyhoe Posts: 490
    :)
    Well, I am building my body bigger so it wont fit in a compact, but perhaps not in the way you were alluding to! :)
  • rockyleerockylee Wyoming, MichiganPosts: 13,989
    Even at $50 G's it's probably still a good deal !!! ;)

    -Rocky
  • cowbellcowbell Posts: 125
    If anyone want to check it out, there's a critique of the MKS in what I think was in the January issue of Automobile magazine. It's the first story in the magazine, right after the table of contents.

    I read it at the doctors office, which was appropriate because the review just eviscerated the MKS. According to the review, everything is wrong with this car. Every design element inside and outside is wrong.

    I'm not going to lie, it was sort of hard to take the review seriously. When a critique is so one sided and mean, you can't help but think the reviewer has an ax to grind, like an MKS ran over his dog a week before he wrote the piece.

    Anyway, check it out if anyone wants to see everything that Automobile thinks is wrong with the MKS.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    It's one of those "design as an art" perspectives much like a professional movie critic would review a movie. I'm sure most vehicles sold today would suffer similar criticism.

    Personally I think the MKS is decent. Not great but good. Certainly good enough to compete and make money which is what Lincoln needs right now.

    Also - Mulally was back on Autoline Detroit and answered all the tough questions this time. Lincoln is definitely going back to RWD, Mercury was basically a No Comment. He was asked about partnering and he said absolutely, and they're going to start with Ford (meaning Australia, Europe, South America, etc.). He said all the right things and I'm reasonably sure he meant them. The only thing holding Ford back now is poor decisions of the past (lack of engine and platform development).
  • If anyone want to check it out, there's a critique of the MKS in what I think was in the January issue of Automobile magazine. It's the first story in the magazine, right after the table of contents.

    I read it at the doctors office, which was appropriate because the review just eviscerated the MKS. According to the review, everything is wrong with this car. Every design element inside and outside is wrong.


    I know everybody on this forum is about sick of me because I always make the most negative assumptions about the media and usually I'm right :blush:
    Come on now, we've been through this already. Allot of people on this forum should already know that the MKS is going to be the sorriest POS made. Angus Mckenzie of Motortrend already has called the MKS the "Wrong car" and he's written 2 articles about "What's wrong with Lincoln" Basically over insulting Lincoln and not giving Lincoln any credit for anything good they've done recently. Also, he was quoted as saying that "Ford is a truck company trying to build cars" that should tell you what he thinks of Lincoln and the MKS.

    Car and Driver has already getting their insults ready by stating "how can we take Lincoln seriously because the MKS is FWD" and let's not even speculate what Edmunds is going to call it. Considering the MKS is going after the BMW 7 series and the Mercedes-Benz S Class. I've said it before, stop caring about what the critics think. It should be very obvious what they think, Nothing !!!!!!!!! no i'm sorry Absolutely Nothing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and they are not in a huge hurry to change there opinion anytime soon. Everybody who is a Lincoln fan should be ready for a Piss#$g contest at Lincoln's expense since Hyundai is making the RWD Hyundai Genesis. It's going to be pretty ugly. :sick:
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    Lincoln is going RWD. The stuff just ain't here yet. MKS is the best that can be done now, and will be adequate to the task of keeping Lincoln afloat. However, Lincoln wouldn't be planning more and better platforms if they were not necessary. Aspiring to better than adequate is imperative, and it seems that Lincoln knows it. Cadillac has already shown what can be done, with both the buying public and all those rags you do not like.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    Very true. FWD with optional AWD is just fine for Audi but sucks for a Lincoln. We know that the styling was already in the can before the MKR set the styling direction for future Lincolns and the only thing they could translate was the grille.

    I look at the MKS as more of a statement about Lincoln's commitment:

    New luxury features never offered by Lincoln and some that even the competition don't have
    No shared sheetmetal or powertrains with Ford platform siblings
    Improved interiors, especially materials
    High performance option within 12 months with more power than any previous Lincoln

    Given that the D3 was the only viable platform available when they started, I think it's a good effort. I also think it will pull in some import buyers. If Mulally had been hired 5 years ago we'd have a RWD MKS. But he wasn't and we don't so deal with it.

    As long as the MKS makes money to keep Lincoln afloat for the next 2 years - it's a success.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,415
    It is a good effort. No doubt. And no doubt Lincoln needs more than a good effort...and knows it. In time that effort will pay off. The MKS will do fine with most American drivers who want comfort. It is like stereo equipment...every stereo is good now, but the ones getting the accolades are not the adequate ones, even though very few people are the kind of aficionados.to appreciate subtle differences. Those people attacking the auto press are basically saying they don't appreciate or respect those subtle differences either. But the people who do the measurements are still going to rank the contenders best to worst based on fine measurements, and it would be nice for Lincoln to hit another home run like the LS again.

    And cut the crap about Audi. Because Audi has been so long tied to FWD, they have never achieved the sales or distinction of BMW or Mercedes, like it or not. And as a result, Audi is now going for broke. The R8 (mid-engine, rear drive) is a break with the past. RWD models are planned. But more importantly, they are beginning to redesign their AWD/FWD models to set the engine further back for better balance, moving away from that nose-heavy, engine-in-front-of-the-drivewheels imbalance they have had for so many years. That set-up is efficient and a great thing for economy cars, but cars of Audi's (and the MKS's) distinction call for more.

    Audi has had a reliability problem as well, but more importantly, they usually come out wanting in handling comparisons because of that extreme front bias. Front drive can be designed in a much more balanced way, and Audi is now moving in that direction (with the new A4, the A5, the newest TT, and the last A6 design). The engine is now further back and there is more weight toward the rear. They will get there, because they are very determined. Lincoln must have that drive to be the best as well.
  • marsha7marsha7 Posts: 3,673
    "High performance option within 12 months with more power than any previous Lincoln"

    Forgive me if I have missed some posts...what HP option is supposed to be available in the next year???
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,699
    3.5L Ecoboost (direct injection twin turbo) will be available within 12 months after the MKS launches. Estimated minimum 340 hp.
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