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Lincoln MKS

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Comments

  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    True, but a great side effect is the even quieter ride. All the press that have reviewed the car use terms like "quiet as a tomb," quiet as a coffin," or "truly serene." Ford has apparently done a good job with the Fusion, Milan, and MKZ in the area of getting rid of unwanted noise, too. That seems to be an area of focus throughout the line up and I am glad to see it.
  • datagendatagen Posts: 107
    Your are right lilengineerboy that there are different cars. That is why I believe the Ecoboost with the more sporty suspension is to compete with the CTS and others in that area. I have to wonder sometimes is all this counter productive to the real requirements that we all may be missing here. I understand that the automakers attune to the customers wants, but are our wants wrong as far as we as a nation is concern?

    I say this because even though there are beginnings to be a move towards more fuel-efficient vehicles, one thing that may be given up towards this quest is the speed and power that we all may be use too. I wonder is that such a sacrifice where with all that power and speed when there is no place to really use it legally. So in a sense it is like buying a 4-wheel drive vehicle and don’t 4-wheel drive.

    I understand that many want to feel the power even if it is a short amount of time, but I wonder is it worth the price for such few seconds or hundreds of a second’s difference between the advancement being introduced and what is currently on the streets. Many have asked the question is all this power and the need for speed really needed? I would say no it is not needed, but it is wanted for even I will admit the sensation feels good (have enough tickets to attest to that) :mad: . Hopefully with the advancement of the electric engine (where acceleration and power is more efficient), we can have what we want, keep contributing towards the policeman's ball, and help the environment as well. :shades:
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116

    I understand that many want to feel the power even if it is a short amount of time, but I wonder is it worth the price for such few seconds or hundreds of a second’s difference between the advancement being introduced and what is currently on the streets. Many have asked the question is all this power and the need for speed really needed?


    The role of the manufacturer is to meet the needs of the consumer. If you want to change consumer preferences, talk to them, not the manufacturer. If no one bought big SUVs (like last summer), the manufactures either stop making them or go out of business (like this summer). If everyone wanted a tiny slow car that got 100 mpg, they would be available.

    It is the role of the OEMs to offer choices to consumers. Its up to the government to convince people they want something other than what they want. A gas tax would fix that, but they are too weak to try that.
  • datagendatagen Posts: 107
    But if the manufacture saw that going a certain route would help their bottom line, can’t they talk to the consumer as well? They have the marketing tools to do it. I bet you if these was a process where auto companies could make a vehicle that use another fuel source that was cheaper than oil and in abundance, they would waste no time of flipping the bird to the oil companies and moving on with their plans, especially if they could control that other source. All they would have to do is to crank up the marketing machine, put the support to the supply infrastructure in high gear, and then produce the autos. Times a changing and there may be other agencies and organizations that needs to talk to the consumer other than the government.

    You do have a point about the tax. In Europe it has force the existence a great mass transit system that was so efficient, it was cheaper, easier and less stressful to use than drive your car.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    GM has been talking to the consumer for decades - telling them that they actually wanted a low-tech, out of step, poorly made and barely dependable inferior product. There are those who drank the kool-aid and bought, but the overwhelming majority didn't buy the line or the cars, and you see the result. There are a small number of the population who will "buy what they are told to" by the government or others, because they are built that way - not to think for themselves. The majority will buy what they want to, as long as somebody, anybody makes it. As much as I would hate it, the gas tax is really the only way to drive this process.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    But if the manufacture saw that going a certain route would help their bottom line, can’t they talk to the consumer as well?

    Yup, if it improved their bottom line, I am sure they would be motivated to make a change. Hence the hybrid ridiculousness of putting 2 complete drivetrains in each vehicle.

    I bet you if these was a process where auto companies could make a vehicle that use another fuel source that was cheaper than oil and in abundance, they would waste no time of flipping the bird to the oil companies and moving on with their plans, especially if they could control that other source.

    Yup, again I agree. However, right now we don't have this magic tablet.

    All they would have to do is to crank up the marketing machine, put the support to the supply infrastructure in high gear,...

    ...and wait 15 years for the infrastructure to be in-place

    Times a changing and there may be other agencies and organizations that needs to talk to the consumer other than the government.

    Again I agree, it seems to work for drug companies who want to send people to the doctor to ask for designer drugs to treat problems they might or might not have, but hey healthcare in this country is in great shape.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,704
    Consumers speak with their checkbooks. Ford's best bet right now is to offer a full lineup of vehicles from large SUVs to small fuel efficient cars and crossovers and hybrids. This way they have foot in the market no matter which way the market shifts. Then it's just a matter of shifting production volume around to match the market demand.

    Abandoning a segment like large trucks and SUVs would be suicide right now. You can't convince someone who wants an Expedition or F250 to buy a 4 cylinder fusion or ranger.
  • datagendatagen Posts: 107
    You do have a point about covering all the bases. I guess with the present situation, that is about all they can do.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,704
    Think back a few years ago - before the Fusion, Edge, Flex, etc.

    If a Ford customer wanted a smaller crossover or a nice midsized sedan or a nice small car - Ford had nothing. The Focus was basically a cheap car, the Taurus was a fleet queen and the Escape was too small. Ford lost a lot of customers simply because they didn't have the right vehicles.

    Adding the Fiesta and making the Focus a nicer vehicle with better options plus having a full line of crossovers will give Ford a good base from which to start building again.

    What you will see is the Expedition and Navigator sharing much more with the F150 - they won't have enough volume to dictate a one-off platform like before. And the explorer will be based on the D3 platform. These can still be highly profitable vehicles if built correctly even on lower volumes.
  • gregg_vwgregg_vw Posts: 2,416
    Actually, to split a hair here, the Focus was not just a cheap car. It appeared during a time when Ford was really considering a move toward world cars (one which unfortunately fell flat, as the Contour was too European sized at the time, and the Focus turned out to be a bit ahead of itself). The Focus replaced the Escort and was hailed by the automotive press here 10 years ago. It came off very well in comparison to the Cavalier and Neon competition. However, it was hatchback-based and like the Contour, not completely to American tastes at the time. Funny how they dumbed it down in time by 2008 to be another also-ran, and now the European Focus will again come to save the day. This time I hope the car is really timely.

    Nice to see the MKS has added another layer of smooth and quiet for the 2010 model year. It is what people expect of a luxury ride now.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,704
    Let me rephrase that. The Focus - because it was the lowest priced car on the lot - became the defacto "cheap" car for Ford dealers. Most were ordered stripped down with few options to meet a price point and compete with Kias and Hyundais and Suzukis. It didn't even offer a Navigation option until recently.

    I expect the Fiesta and the Focus to get all available amenities going forward to compete with similar vehicles from other mfrs. Sync was a major step in that direction. The old Ford would have made that available on higher end vehicles only.

    The new Ford realizes that people will buy loaded Fiestas and Focuses and that they will make more profit off fully loaded vehicles.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Yes, a $7000 premium for TwinForce :lemon: in the 2010 Flex and FE equal to the standard Flex V6. 355HP in a FWD vehicle so it MUST be automatically DERATED/DETUNED at WOT in the low gear ranges.

    A 355HP Ford Flex "family" vehicle that appeals to only "motorheads", "turboheads", and those with a "boy-racer" mentality.

    What must Ford be thinking...??

    Put the TwinForce engine in the Mustang and the SHO and leave it at that.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Ecoboost is simply a rebranding of the TWINFORCE :lemon: turbocharged engine design in hopes of selling (green tinted) SNAKE OIL to the US automotive buying public.

    Read more...

    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f1de8ee/7
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,704
    Why do you care if someone wants 360 hp in a Flex or MKS and they're willing to pay for it? The fact that the Ecoboost versions get the same or better FE than the non-Ecoboost versions is quite impressive.

    I think you severely underestimate the market for such a vehicle. Ford needs to offer vehicles for all buyers and there are Flex and MKS buyers who would not buy one without the Ecoboost engine option. They would be buying V8 models from competitors.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,704
    The buying public knows exactly what it's buying. They're buying V8 performance with V6 Fuel Economy. Take your personal agenda elsewhere.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    You have hit the NAIL squarely on the HEAD.

    EcoBoost is simply the old gas guzzling TwinForce engine :lemon: design now rebranded due to gas rising to $4.00/gallon.

    $7,000 premium for TwinForce :lemon: in the new Ford Flex with FE only equal to the Flex with standard 3.5L V6. Had Ford seen fit to use DFI in the standard V6 it could ahve be reduced to 3.0L, still produced 270HP and substantial FE improvement.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..If everyone wanted a tiny slow car that got 100 mpg, they would be available..."

    Why go to such extremes...??

    On the other hand your "extreme" seems to be currently applying to a greater buying group then the "TwinForce :lemon: " (boy-racer, motorhead, turbohead) buying group. See all the Prius, TwoFor, etc, out there on the roads these days..??

    "..Choices to consumers.."

    Yes, Mustangs and SHO's to the 1% POWER group and 270HP FE conscious Flex "family" vehicles for the other 98%

    Just what, where, is the market for a Ford Flex "family" vehicle with 355HP and relatively POOR FE. Ford Flex "family" vehicle, FWD vehicle, wherein that TwinForce :lemon: engine MUST be automatically derated/detuned in the low gear ranges.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    What you are missing....

    The TwinForce :lemon: engine design was put on the Ford engineering drawing boards back when the early success of the retrograde Mustang seemed to indicate that the HORSEPOWER race could/would be restarted.

    While everyone else was looking to DFI to improve engine efficiency and thereby FE Ford was in the midst of developing a new engine series for the upcoming HP RACE.

    Then gas hit $4.00/gal.

    And TwinForce :lemon: suddenly needed to somehow reflect environmental consciousness. Green tinted SNAKE OIL.

    So the TWINFORCE :lemon: engine series was rebranded...

    EcoBoost.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    Yes, and the 2010 Ford Flex is available with the TwinForce :lemon: engine, $7000 premium, or a standard V6, having equal FE in both. I'd bet you right now that 98% of those will go out the door without the TwinForce :lemon: engine.

    Probably even worse (better..??), closer to 100%, were the standard V6 to have DFI and only 3.0L to produce that same 270HP. The 2% gain would be made up by additional sales resulting from public recognition of the Flex's FE.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    But on the other hand putting a highly efficient and HIGH performance 4 cylinder engine in an Explorer(***) isn't beyond today's possibilities.

    30MPG hwy and 250HP would be an easy "jump".

    *** Leave the few Expeditions that are sold to those with enough money to pay for the FUEL.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    Based on what I have seen on various forums all over the Internet, post number 8 on the link that wwest sent appears to be quite accurate.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,704
    Looks like post #8 was removed. In any event, further discourse with wwest will produce nothing of benefit to anyone. Let him have his tirade and just ignore it.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    If expressed or stating concern about FE vs inordinate, even OUTRAGEOUS, levels of HP puts me in league with 98% of the world's population....,

    Then so be it.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    The MKS I have on order has not arrived but the dealer got one in today and I took it for a spin.

    The suspension tweaking and sound deadening on the 2010s is very apparent. The car is almost eerie quiet. Even with the 20 inch wheels, there is almost no tire thump or other noise. At 75 MPH, you could whisper to a back-seat passenger and they would hear you. I cannot imagine anyone complaining about the ride, either - unless they are looking for something really stiff. The MKS is velvety firm - you can feel the road but there is absolutely no hint of harshness. This really does feel like a luxury car should, IMO.

    With a name like ECOboost, we know the MKS will be economical. I was more interested in the performance. I can assure you that it seems to be adequate. At no time during the test drive did I hold up traffic from behind. Given some time and patience, I think it would be capable of passing another car on a two-lane road.

    While we have no real hills in Minneapolis, it seemed capable holding it's speed when going up a grade. If you live in the mountains or in San Francisco, you might want to see if it could handle that. My wife would get a bit cranky if I asked her to get out and push because the car lacked power but that shouldn't be necessary here in the Midwest.

    I would not be enough of a hooligan to challenge a Prius to a drag-race. They have the advantage of 2 modes of power compared to only one for the MKS. However, based on my drive, it seems that the ECOboost MKS should be able to hold its own.

    I am really looking forward to the arrival of mine!
  • bdymentbdyment Posts: 551
    I hope you were jesting when you stated you wouldn't want to drag race a Prius. the Prius is a hybrid economy car. It has very limited power. Your ECOBoost Lincoln would blow it away.
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    You are kidding, right? With a name like ECOboost, I thought the MKS was the economy car. It only has an engine. The Prius has an engine AND an electric motor, doesn't it?

    Anyway, I was worried that a 4400 pound car with a little 6 cylinder engine would be awfully slow. I travel between Minneapolis and Des Moines fairly often and the minimum speed is 40 MPH on the Interstate 35. I think the MKS will be capable of maintaining that. That is really all I care about.
  • bdymentbdyment Posts: 551
    The ECOBoost by Ford is a system that allows a V6 to have the power of a highly tuned V8 with the economy of a mid size V6. It has direct fuel injection and turbocharging. Approx. 365hp. The Prius is lucky if it makes 130 with the engine and electric motor both running. The ECO part of ECOBoost simply means better than a V8 The boost part means turbocharging.

    You truly must be putting us on. You couldn't know this little about the car you are buying.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,704
    * Main Entry: sar·casm
    * Pronunciation: \ˈsär-ˌka-zəm\
    * Function: noun
    * Etymology: French or Late Latin; French sarcasme, from Late Latin sarcasmos, from Greek sarkasmos, from sarkazein to tear flesh, bite the lips in rage, sneer, from sark-, sarx flesh; probably akin to Avestan thwarəs- to cut
    * Date: 1550

    1 : a sharp and often satirical or ironic utterance designed to cut or give pain
    2 a : a mode of satirical wit depending for its effect on bitter, caustic, and often ironic language that is usually directed against an individual b : the use or language of sarcasm
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    Hmmmm. Maybe holding the brake with my left foot, bringing the RPM up to about 1500, releasing the brake and flooring it has caused massive intorxication. I did take a pretty good wallop to the back of my head....thank goodness for the forward sloping head restraints.

    ;)
  • brucelincbrucelinc Posts: 814
    Thanks, Allen. Just trying to bring a smile to a few faces around here....didn't mean to cause any pain..... :)
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