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Chevy Camaro Concept

hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,201
edited March 16 in Chevrolet
From the photos in the Detroit Free Press (www.freep.com), the Camaro Concept looks very good. Wish it were in Chevy showrooms now instead of being a possible '09 model, but, hopefully, the production car will be a winner for enthusiasts and for Chevy.
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Comments

  • jb7227jb7227 Posts: 86
    Saw it today on TV coverage of Det Auto Show - now THATS what GM should be making. I would love to see it built in the U.S. using mostly U.S. components (the only thing that keeps me from buying a Mustang is that it's built alongside Mazdas - and has less than 65% domestic/Canadian content). And most importantly - price it right. A base Mustang can be had for around 20-21K. Even a fully loaded Mustang GT V-8 is around 33K. I hope GM doesnt make the mistake of pricing the Camaro like Ford did with the Thunderbird. I other words, dont have the average Camaro priced at 40K! Last year the Mustang sold over 162,000 units - no reason why GM cant sell 100,000 Camaros.
    Just some thoughts.
  • irgirg Posts: 197
    I just saw the photo of this on msnbc.com It looks great from what I saw, hope they build it. I agree with jb7227 that it HAS to be priced right. Besides the Thunderbird example, I would have to say that the GTO is another example. I don't see many where I live at all. Bland styling, and over $30k turns off too many people. Once you get in BMW and Lexus territory, GM will have a problem, which is mostly perception, but that still counts. Why buy a GM when you can get a BMW 3 series coupe? Make it a better performer for under $30k, and you will have a winner.

    Yes, it will have to be rear wheel drive, and offer a V-8 to come to the party, but it will also have to offer something the last few Camaro's didn't have - quality. It will need to be built with a great interior (previous generations just horrible), and attention to detail. Much like Ford stepped up the quality of the F-150 (for a truck no less), GM will have to do the same for the Camaro.

    I've been checking out the upcoming small car segment (like the Honda Fit, Nissan Versa, etc.) and all of these small cars will have to offer higher quality as well to sell. And these are $13k machines. So the Camaro, and Challenger, etc. will also have to be of high quality and great design. Something not synonymous with past Camaros.

    I don't think it has to offer every gadget and doodah, but it can't be a complete replica of old muscle cars: fairly fast in a straight line, but not good at much else (and I am a muscle car fan, but I don't confuse what they can do with a Porsche for example). The new Camaro will have to be quick, but not Z-06 fast. That's what the aftermarket is for. It has to be comfortable, ergonomically designed, and offer most features we take for granted. Some practicality like a useable trunk would also be a good idea. Build a good out of the box modern day muscle car that can be tweaked to be a terror like the old muscle cars were, and you will sell plenty.

    But what did in the last Camaro, was that they were not reliable, not that great in the safety column, expensive to insure, and not that useful as everyday driving machines.

    I would like to see a quality V-6 option too, that could get better gas mileage, but still have a lot of punch. Add in good looks, a state of the art interior, useful space and good ergonomics, and price tag of $20-$28k loaded, and GM will be back in the winner circle. I just hope I can afford one when they come out!
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Agree with a lot of the sentiments expressed here. I think key for GM will be to keep the price down and the perceived quality/reliability up. It doesn't have to offer road blistering performance from the get-go; but it should be sturdy enough to take big hp bumps without a hitch.

    Personally, I don't think they need to offer the all aluminum LS2 as their base V8 edition. I think their 5.3l V8 hooked up to a 5sp stick should be plenty for a Z28 edition with the LS2 for a future SS model. Base price for the V8 needs to be in the neighborhood of $25-$26k.

    I really like the looks of the car (but those giant rims will never make production). About the only thing I would change would be the nose (lookes too pointed to me).
  • This is one cool looking car. Best looking new car I've seen/concept car....
  • irgirg Posts: 197
    Yes, you summed it better than I did. Put a good (but not the best yet) V-8 in there with a 5 or 6 speed (and not one that skips shifts either) or a 6 speed auto for no more than $26k, would sell. And they should do something similar to the Monte Carlo too. I just don't understand a Monte Carlo with the 5.3 V-8, and front wheel drive.

    Also with the new Camaro, I doubt the huge rims will make it to production. And I wouldn't want them anyway. Imagine the cost of rubber for 22" rims? 17" with an 18" option would be fine with me. Again, the aftermarket will take of this too. And I would also change the nose. The '69 Camaro is one of the best looking designs ever. Still one of my favorite cars of all time. Make it look a lot like it, just like the new Challenger looks like the old one, another great design, imo.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I have to break the streak of accolades. The exterior looks of the Camaro concept does nothing for me. To my eye, the exterior doesn't flow at all and it looks like it was designed by at least three committees - one took on the front end another did the middle, and a third worked on the back end.

    But I can see how those predisposed to GM designs might like it. It looks like the same family as the Cadillac designs, which also don't do anything for me.

    It does make me wonder a bit about what makes something attractive to some, but not others. Back in my single days, I went for the lean athletic look, whereas a good friend went for the "bigger is better" busty look. Made for a good friendship. At least we knew we'd never have to fight over the same woman!

    In any event, to each their own. There is no "right" answer when it comes to personal preferences.
  • The new Camaro? Close, but overall a disappointment. In typical GM fashion it is over-done and overly dramatic. Tone down the eccentric lines a bit and they will have a strong product. The interior is also over-dramatic. As is, I think it is a sales flop. Once again, it demonstrates that GM's biggest problem is their cheesy designers. If they need to cut employees, they should start with their design and marketing departments. Keep it simple GM! It really isn't that hard!
  • logic1logic1 Posts: 2,433
    Concepts are always over dramatic.

    Of course the exterior and interior will be toned if the car is approved for production.

    Simple concepts are simply ignored at autoshows.

    The Camaro is getting swamped with attention.

    Think about it.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Take a look at how close the Mustang GT ended up looking like the concept car that was making the rounds in early '04. In some ways, the production car actually looked better.

    Would the production Camaro be toned down from the concept? Sure; it'll lose the GIANT rims and the nose will be a bit more crash-worthy. Probably lose the grilles in the leading edge of the rear fender. But I think the overall lines are very very close to what we can expect on a production model.

    And if they lose the weird lighting/colors in the interior (and odd console treatment forward of the shifter), I think that interior is fairly close to production as well.

    Be interesting to see if the IRS makes it into the production version...
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    are that the concept looks really rushed. I'm not trying to put a damper on anyone's good thoughts and accolades for the concept, but IMO the car just doesn't have "it". It looks like it needs to go into the oven for a few more months. Maybe the pics on MSN look better and looks great in person (my impressions come from the photos/articles on yahoo). I will reserve my final judgement in seeing it in person, but...

    To me, it looks bloated, out of proportion all around. The beltline needs to be lowered and the greenhouse raised slightly. The back-end looks as big as a Corvette's. The overly big-tire look is dead, and has been for a long time (just grateful they didn't have spinners on it). That door looks loooooooooong (from a shot of Lutz standing with the door open) and heavy. Again, I think they need to rethink some things and TAKE THEIR TIME!!! This car definitely does not need to be rushed. I would rather GM/Chevy take extra time and get it right than to repeat the Monaro/GTO mistake.

    Lutz stated they need to sell 150 - 160K/yr to make it profitable; can this version make and sustain those numbers? As for now, I'm still leaning toward the Challenger. :surprise:
  • vibsrvibsr Posts: 47
    On a scale of 1 to 10 (highest), I'll give the Camaro concept 8.75. Overall, I like the direction that this thing is headed. I'm sure that if the Bowtie Boys actually do this, the body sculpture will be toned down a little (just a little!). ;) If they decide on more than one version of this car, let the wheels max out at 18 inches for the all-out bruiser. In my opinion, anything over 18" for this car is unnecessary. Just keep it simple. I know they did it that way in the '60s, but for safety's sake they need to put those gauges on the dash -- not in the console!

    Back in the muscle/pony era, Ford was first on the scene with the Mustang, and Dodge was last with the Challenger. Well, Ford is back out there again with a real attitude. Let's see who hits the showroom floor next. Chevy or Dodge?
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,201
    There's a tendency for cars to grow in size and weight with each generation. I would have preferred the new Mustang if it had been the size and weight of the original, or, at most, the '57-'58. From what I understand, the Challenger will be larger than the original, and considerably heavier. These increases tend to detract from handling and maneuverability, while increasing fuel consumption and requiring more power to achieve a given level of performance.

    I hope the next Camaro will be no longer, wider, and heavier than the original one ('67?), and, if anything, slightly trimmer. If it has to be slightly taller to offer a usable back seat, well, that wouldn't bother me. Also, I hope the production model features independent rear suspension, even if the added manufacturing expense is factored into the price.
  • Great looking Concept Camaro....NOT!. What were they thinking? I restore 1st Gen Camaros and love these cars. This new look, at least to me, better resembles my daughters' 2000 Mustang. We really like the similarities that Dodge did with thier Challanger. Even the Ford Mustang retro car was not a bad re-do. This car, to me, doesn't look anything like a 69 Camaro as stated in their ad. I am sadly dissappointed. I hope GM gets enough of this kind of feedback so they will re-think the design. Such as a nose that better resembles the 1st Gen. A less pointy, darker, closer webbed grill gave the 69 a "Mean" look. Plus, a set of rectangular, tailights with a slight curve on the corner would also help. I'm sorry, but even the sides of this "concept" is too...mustangy for me. The sides of all the 1st Gen Camaros were sleek, smooth, with the accents placed on the top of the fender and a touch on the sides. The 69 had a bit of a squashed look compared to the 67-68. It definitely did NOT have a, excuse the reference, Big butt. Unlike this.."Corvette" concept. Now if you want to add something to the rear...create a spoiler. This was the single most added after market option on all 1st Gens. Again I applaud Dodge for their Challanger, (though I will never want a Dodge anything). And I recongnize the Mustang retro by thier nose and tailights. (Still looks like a 2000 though on the sides.) But really, GM.."WHAT WERE YOU THINKING!!!" :confuse:
  • charts2charts2 Posts: 618
    Best concept yet by GM. Lutz says it will be at least 6 months before they decide to build/or not and then where to build it and then 30 months of lead up time. Spring/Summer of 2009 is too far down the road to keep people interested in this rapidly changing car market today. For sure if the concept becomes reality it will definetly be toned down from what we see. Smaller wheels/tires, and less chisled appearance will make the new Camaro look generic and the excitement will soon wear off. I doubt for a minute that they could sell 150,000 of these year after year to turn a profit. I would believe that Mopar would also have to sell 150,000 Challengers also. There is not that much room in the two door muscle car market. Chevy pumps hundreds of millions into racing/advertising for the Corvette and it is struggling to sell 35,000 a year. It will be interesting!
  • jae5jae5 Posts: 1,205
    There's a tendency for cars to grow in size and weight with each generation. I would have preferred the new Mustang if it had been the size and weight of the original, or, at most, the '57-'58.

    I hope the '57 - '58 was meant to be '67-'68. Remember the Mustang if a mix of 65 - 70, so in size, it was definitely going to be the bigger, later car. Just be glad they didn't make it the behemoth 71 - 73 model.

    But again, between the Dodge and the Chevy, I have to give it to the Dodge. Seems those people understand the heritage of the what the cars were and what they mean to people, still to this days, sans Charger of course. I see too much XLR in the front end of the Camaro concept, too much Corvette in the rear and the taillights look like they came off a '70 Cuda. It almost looks like the Arnold Schwarzenegger Mustang concept that became the SN95.
  • I like the Camaro Concept overall although I think it could stand few minor touchups in the design. I really they hope they decide to build it and realize that 2009 doesn't work for a debut. They need to have this car ou this fall honestly.

    They should use the 5.3L V8 from the New Impala as the base engine and price it right in between the V6 and V8 Mustang. The concept car should become the Z28 and be priced about $28,000 when fully loaded. Later they should offer a more tuned LS2 with around 450hp with weight reduction for the SS version and they can price that version at around $34,000. They should put 18" wheels and tires on the base model and 19" on Z28 and SS or maybe a 18"/19" staggered setup instead. As for transmissions the Tremec T56 works well for a manual and I would like to see a 6 speed DSG or SMG for the "automatic" duties. If not then the 6 speed automatic transmission in the C6 Corvette should work as well.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "The concept car should become the Z28 and be priced about $28,000 when fully loaded."

    Fully loaded with an aluminum 400hp LS2, 6-sp manual and IRS.....for $28k?

    You're not asking for much, are you?

    You've GOT to keep the price down. Base Camaro with 3.9l V6 and 5sp manual. Z28 Camaro with 5.3l V8 and 5sp manual. SS Camaro with the LS2 and 6sp.

    IMO the SS should be manual only. 4-sp auto in the base car, perhaps the 6-sp auto in the Z28 (I wonder what the cost difference is between the 4-sp and 6-sp units :surprise: ). 16" rims on the V6 base, 17" rims (w/ 18" optional) on the Z28. 18" standard on the SS; leave the staggered sizing to the Corvette. Let's try to be realistic here.

    You guys can make your wish list a mile long for the new Camaro but you can't then expect it to compete financially with the Mustang. Don't you guys remember that lack of performance didn't kill the old F-bodies - it was the cost. Make the car LOOK killer, and perform WELL (not trying to set any land speed records here, ok?) and keep the PRICE competitive and the Camaro will succeed.
  • Do not like it, it looks like the retarded cousin of the legendary '69. Let legends be just that.Much too space ship looking.
  • I don't think that's asking for too much when you consider what the GTO offers now and what they sell for. A new one can be had for $26,000 because they sell poorly and incentives. 28K shouldn't be out of the question IMO. As for tire and wheel size they cost car companies next to nothing in comparison to retail prices. It's not a huge difference between price for a 17" and a 18". 16" should be out of the question for a sports car or even a sporty car.

    As far as cost we are also talking about another 2 or 3 years from now also and cutting corners where the competition is concerned is what got GM in their predicament. They need to get progressive and start setting the standard once again instead of following it. Offer what no one else is and at a better price and they will come. That's how Lexus grew and most Japanese companies for that matter. There was a time when it was considered a joke to own a Toyota, Honda, Nissan, even a Hyundai and they have all or are coming to the forefront now as a serious competitor.

    Either way Corvette people aren't gonna cross shop a Camaro for a Corvette and with the added weight then the Camaro won't touch the Corvette in performance. So it's safe for GM not to cheat us out of a REAL Camaro.
  • I used to be a great Chevy fan, having owned a Chevelle and a Z28. The stuff coming out of Chevy in recent years really turned me away. I was appalled when the Camaro was discontinued in favor of monstrosities like the Avalanche and SSR. The new Camaro could help Chevy get back on track. The Detroit Auto Show Camaro concept would be more appealing if they make the body cleaner by reducing the muscularity, raising the canopy slightly, and flattening the nose. An open egg-crate front end needs to be designed that does not have anything like the Mustang's concrete "parking block" bumper. Something sleek like the Enduro bumper on the '69 might work. The cowl induction hood on the concept car should be carefully scrutinized. It looked great on '68-'69s, but now you see aftermarket copies on all sorts of vehicles including Ford pickups. The rear end must not be too fat. Packing huge tires into a bulging rear may work for Corvette or Porsche, but this is a Camaro. I'm not suggesting re-creating the 1st generation, but the concept car looks somewhat cartoonish. If Chevy produces this car, the build quality must obviously surpass that of all prior generations so Motor Trend et al do not ridicule it on the first road test. I see these factors as being more important than promises of Corvette-grade horsepower. There used to be a certain sense of dignity and class to the design and marketing of Camaros. It was a car that appealed to both dads and sons, not just boy-racers.
  • boodahboodah Posts: 7
    All I have to say is this car is veeeeeery nice. Tweak a few things here and there, price it right (I saw on tv the VPs saying somewhere around 25-29k for it). I don't car for the front grill but everything else is quite nice.
  • I have to say that the new concept camaro looks like just another new car. Yes, some of you think that Chevy should build something new but I think they should have gone with a true retro look. That is what the guys my age are saying (age 42). We loved the old muscle cars and wanted to see some new technology put into a retro Camaro. The Challenger is by far the coolest thing released this year along with the Shelby Cobra. Too bad GM didn't get on board. The nose of this new Camaro looks like some sort of rice burner. If all the young kids like this car, they need to buy it and support it. I for one will be going after a Challenger. It will be strange to have a Mopar in my driveway sitting next to my 74 Z-28, my sons 81 Z-28 and my daughters 87 Camaro and my wife's 03 Impala LS. Get the picture, I am a devoted GM guy but this new Camaro sucks.
  • kkollwitzkkollwitz Posts: 268
    I drive a 2002 Z28, used to have a Firebird Formula, before that a Mustang LX 5.0, all manuals. I'm probably part of the new Camaro's target market.
    I'm not that concerned about particular looks. For me, the new Camaro should:
    Dump lowbrow image: no goofy graphics or boyracer addons. Camaro must have same middleclass/ uppermiddleclass appeal as Mustang, i.e., affluent women who will buy a Mustang V6 convertible would also consider a similar Camaro.
    Have rwd, manual, big V8.
    Be comparable in cost to equivalent Mustang performance.
    Should handle better than equivalent Mustang. Doesn't have to be faster in 0-60, 1/4 mile, but close.
    Better weight distribution than Mustang.
    Should be more sporting than Mustang even if it makes the car a bit less comfortable.
    If GTO is still around, it's ok for Camaro be be slower, but it must outhandle GTO.
    I'm not sure what Challenger will be, so I have no sense about how Camaro should compare.
    Not sure about any other/future rwd V8 coupes...are there any?
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Posts: 197
    Saw this on the Chevy site. Thought you'd all like it:

    http://www.chevrolet.com/performance/

    Click on "SEE IT UNVEILED". The intro part is a little annoying, but seeing all the older Camaros, plus the concept car at the end, is well worth it.

    Having read all previous posts, I think they should keep the LS2 for the standard Camaro, but offer the LS7 for the SS. Unless Corvette execs want the LS7 for the Z06 only.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    "Having read all previous posts, I think they should keep the LS2 for the standard Camaro..."

    Why?

    Are you saying the Camaro can't compete with the Mustang unless it has a large horsepower advantage? That didn't work with the previous generation F-bods.....
  • The more I see pictures of it the more I like it. I wish someone in Detroit would get there head straight and start being the leader in innovative design. I am so tired of them being 3+ years behind everyone else. I have always been a GM person since I started driving, from my parents and grand parents Oldsmobiles to my Olds., Buick, and Pontiacs. Now being in my very early 40's I want my sports car. Bought a 03 sunfire new and figured I would drive it till my daugther was old enough to drive and it would be hers. Well the time is here. November she turns of age and I will have about 80k miles on that sunfire. I figured I would hold off buying till then. Well if GM snoozes on putting this out there, then I guess my rear end will be in a new Mustang GT. Pretty sad being a loyal GM consumer and they have nothing to compete with the competion because they drag there feet and most of us aren't getting any younger. We will see what the 07's bring when I need a new car. I agree the pricing had better be comparable with the Mustang also when it hits the road. Just think Oldsmobile wouldn't be where it is if they had brought back a sporty 442 or cutlass for that matter. With that all said, I like the new camaro, and I would want the LS2 model anyway.
  • kkollwitzkkollwitz Posts: 268
    Have you considered a GTO? If I didn't have my Camaro, I'd probably be in a GTO myself.
  • I have always been a huge camaro fan. I have owned five of them including a 69 RSZ28 which was my favorite. I think Dodge did a much better job with the callenger than chevy did with the camaro. The wheels are too big, the rear end is huge, and the front end looks nothing like the 69. I do like the sawtooth gauges in the center console like the 69. Another problem is the color they chose for the concept. That space ship silver doesn't look right. Dodge used an old school orange and black stripes. If GM tones this design down a bit and makes it look more like the 69, and puts some serious ponies under the hood, I'll be the first one in line for one. If they leave it the way it is, I just might have to get the Dodge. Being a Chevy fan all my life, I never thought I would hear myself say that.
  • I agree, GM needs to tone down the styling a bit, but this is a great start. It's nice to see rear quarter windows on a Camaro for the first time in 36 years! The Challenger clearly looks better though, to me, even if it is less imaginative.
  • Can't argue with your assessment Johnman, but remember that this car is still way out in the "concept" phase, and by the time it hit's the street, I bet this Camaro will be one awsum ride. The Challenger is too retro for me, so I hope DCX tweaks it a bit here and there too, but I love the idea ! Either way, to see these two cars hit the street is a car lover's dream come true. Make mine the Chevy Camaro, in red, and I'll c'ya (and leave ya !) on Woodward !!
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