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Toyota Camry Hybrid

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  • otis1otis1 Posts: 142
    Are you saying that the Camry Hybird will not benefit from the 2006 tax credit?

    I should have clarified.... The camry will come out later this year and most likely buyers will also benefit from the tax credit. I was implying that the tax credit will help sell more priuses because demand was starting to taper off (no more waiting lists etc). The camry hybrid will most likely sell out this year with or without the tax credit. If there were no tax credit, I think prius sales would have slowed down- especially this first quarter. also because of the tax credit, I think people "panic" bought priuses trying to be 1 of the first 60,000 buyers (even though that wasn't necessary) when they may have put of their decision to consider the CH.
  • otis1otis1 Posts: 142
    In a related topic, it will be VERY interesting to see how Toyota hybrid sales fare AFTER the 60K is gone and the tax credit is no longer an incentive for 2006 buyers.

    the tax credit gets phased out, 50% then 25%. so even TCH buyers will still benefit from some form of the tax credit. when the tax credit is completely phased out (probably sometime after Q3 2007), we'll start seeing incentives on some of the older hybrids because competition from other manufacturers will step up- and those other manufacturers will have the added benefit of the tax credit since they are "behind" in sales compared to toyota.
  • otis1otis1 Posts: 142
    In a related topic, it will be VERY interesting to see how Toyota hybrid sales fare AFTER the 60K is gone and the tax credit is no longer an incentive for 2006 buyers.

    the tax credit gets phased out, 50% then 25%. so even TCH buyers will still benefit from some form of the tax credit. when the tax credit is completely phased out (probably sometime after Q3 2007), we'll start seeing incentives on some of the older hybrids because competition from other manufacturers will step up- and those other manufacturers will have the added benefit of the tax credit since they are "behind" in sales compared to toyota.
  • lanceqlanceq Posts: 16
    Thanks to all for the rapid and knowledgeable responses to the tax credit question. It sounds like maybe we can utilize the tax credit if we purchase early. I would hope that Toyota would issue a certificate along with the bill of sale that qualifies the purchased Camry for a tax credit.

    Good luck to us on this hybrid advantage.
  • otis1otis1 Posts: 142
    In a related topic, it will be VERY interesting to see how Toyota hybrid sales fare AFTER the 60K is gone and the tax credit is no longer an incentive for 2006 buyers.

    the tax credit gets phased out, 50% then 25%. so even TCH buyers will still benefit from some form of the tax credit. when the tax credit is completely phased out (probably sometime after Q3 2007), we'll start seeing incentives on some of the older hybrids because competition from other manufacturers will step up- and those other manufacturers will have the added benefit of the tax credit since they are "behind" in sales compared to toyota.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Also, the amount of tax credit will be lower for the Camry hybrid relative to the Prius
  • otis1otis1 Posts: 142
    I have never ever seen a more flimsy way to justify a slow car. So now performance includes emission and consumption...Well all I can say the Camry's is like a NASCAR compared to a Prius.
    I was just talking about the camry hybrid with a friend of mine who owns a prius. we were talking about performance vs FE and he said, "oh and what's that sports car honda makes that's a hybrid?" and I responded, "do you mean the accord hybrid?" he said, "no, that's not it... it's the.... oh yeah, the insight..." I just had to pause for a second. I guess performance takes on a new meaning to hybrid owners ;)

    Don't take this as me making fun of hybrids. I like hybrids I just thought that was a funny story. I drove the prius and think the power is adequate for normal day-to-day driving so the camry should be just fine. HOnestly, I don't see why a commuter car weighing less than 3500 lbs needs more than 200hp.
  • After looking at the links and the pictures of the new Camry Hybrid all I can say is WOW!!

    A car that big getting 45mpg? Unreal! It looks inbetween a Lexus and a Maxima.

    I might be trading in my 05' for an 07'.

    Toyota destroys the competition again.
  • All of the points that larsb made in his post about how the CH will not hurt the Prius are exactly right. I especially agree with the point the Prius buyers like to show off their "greenness" by driving a car that can only be recognizable as a Hybrid. That is one of the reasons the Highlander Hybrid has not taken off (mileage being another obviously). I run a high volume Toyota dealership and can tell you the Hybrid buyer is concerned about our dependency on foreign oil, pollution and the environment and getting that statement out there to the masses. One of the ways they do that is by driving a Prius.

    I also had to laugh at the statements about tax savings. Tax savings are one of the furthest reasons people buy the Hybrids. It is not about them savings money - they would buy a Corolla if that was the case - it is all about promoting and practicing their beliefs. Prius people rarely ask about the tax savings and have expressed to me many times that it doesn't matter to them and they would buy the car without a penny of help from the government. The tax savings is merely a bonus for them.

    The Hybrid Camry will do very well as well will the Prius. The first CH we get in silver with Nav will be in my driveway for the next 5-10 years.

    Brian
  • We have sold two new Prius already this morning and both buyers knew about the upcoming Camry Hybrid but wanted the design and the better fuel savings of the Prius. Oh and neither mentioned the tax savings. One did ask when the Solara Convertible like the one on our showfloor was coming out in a Hybrid version :D

    Brian
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Yes Midnightcowbody you have made your point quite well about what performance is. Your definition is similar to mine and I am not here to dispute them.

    BUT if I wanted performance/handling I would choose among the many rear wheel drive sports sedan/coupes that are currently available.

    The current and soon to be selection of hybrids are not what I would call performance cars. The new hybrids from Lexus (LS and GS) are more slushbox luxury cruisers than real sport sedans. The hybrid Honda Accord driving dynamics are hindered by its front wheel drive platform. And all hybrids are not great in handling since they are bogged down by their extra weight.

    The reason I am buying the Camry hybrid is not because of my wants(performance/handling) but because of my family needs(roomy, fuel efficient, reliable).

    Also I am a great admirer of the Toyota HSD system and the company's efforts in cutting emissions/fuel consumption.

    My current BMW 3 series is great for solo driving but the great driving experience becomes NIL when I have my children complaining about a lack of space and bangling my seat with their legs.

    That is why I need two different cars. The Camry to satisfy my needs and the BMW to satisfy my wants.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Yes Midnightcowbody you have made your point quite well about what performance is. Your definition is similar to mine and I am not here to dispute them.

    BUT if I wanted performance/handling I would choose among the many rear wheel drive sports sedan/coupes that are currently available.

    The current and soon to be selection of hybrids are not what I would call performance cars. The new hybrids from Lexus (LS and GS) are more slushbox luxury cruisers than real sport sedans. The hybrid Honda Accord driving dynamics are hindered by its front wheel drive platform. And all hybrids are not great in handling since they are bogged down by their extra weight.

    The reason I am buying the Camry hybrid is not because of my wants(performance/handling) but because of my family needs(roomy, fuel efficient, reliable).

    Also I am a great admirer of the Toyota HSD system and the company's efforts in cutting emissions/fuel consumption.

    My current BMW 3 series is great for solo driving but the great driving experience becomes NIL when I have my children complaining about a lack of space and bangling my seat with their legs.

    That is why I need two different cars. The hybrid Camry to satisfy my needs and the BMW to satisfy my wants.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Yes Midnightcowbody you have made your point quite well about what performance is. Your definition is similar to mine and I am not here to dispute your definitions.

    BUT if I wanted performance/handling I would choose among the many non-hybrid rear wheel drive sports sedan/coupes that are currently available.

    The current and soon to be selection of hybrids are not what I would call performance cars. The new hybrids from Lexus (LS and GS) are more slushbox luxury cruisers than real sport sedans. The hybrid Honda Accord's driving dynamics are hindered by its front wheel drive platform. And all hybrids are not great in handling since they are bogged down by their extra weight.

    The reason I am buying the Camry hybrid is not because of my wants(performance/handling) but because of my family needs(roomy, fuel efficient, reliable).

    Also I am a great admirer of the Toyota HSD system and the company's efforts in cutting emissions/fuel consumption.

    My current gas consuming BMW 3 series is great for solo driving but the "ultimate driving experience" becomes NIL when I have my children complaining about a lack of space and then bangling my seat with their legs.

    That is why I need two different cars. The hybrid Camry to satisfy my needs and the BMW to satisfy my wants. Currently there is not a single car in the market today that satisfies both my needs and wants.
  • Muskyfever:

    I agree the 2007 Camry Hybrid is wow! And I agree with Dewey is is a good compromise and provides some performance/sportiness.

    Muskyfever said: "Toyota destroys the competition again."

    Again I agree, but I also think that the TCH sales will have a significant impact on Prius sales. Whether toyota intended it or not one of the TCH's main competitors, IMO, is the Prius. Some people are saying they are not comaprable because the THC will cost more, is bigger, has less milaeage, and most important doesn't look odd and make the "I'm Green" statement boldly enough. I contend, that if you asked the average person, very few would know what a Prius was or what a "green" car was.

    Summary: the THC ( Toyota Hybrid Camry) is a WINNER!

    Listen please, I like your HSD products, but I need them packaged differently with a manual transmission.

    YMMV,

    MidCow

    P.S.- I too once had a 3 series, a 98 M3 sedan and it was very tight on space and high on maintenance
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The first TCH's are due here in May June from Japan. I understand that KY will be online ind 4th Qtr ramping up to ??? Initial volume projections are ~ 4000 units monthly.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Why not in 3 yrs when the RAV is due for an updating. It's the same engine. Also the same engine as in the Highlander which is due for a remodel this time next year.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Your P.S.

    IMO, back in the mid 90's Toyota had already planned the Prius' demise. It was part and parcel of the overall strategy. Prius as you know is a Latin verb, 'to go before'. Why use a Latin verb for a Japanese vehicle? The vehicle was intended as a launch platform for hybrid technology for the US and World markets. It was a prophet if you will.

    It will always appeal to the geeks and innovators, but the Camry ( and maybe Highlander/Corolla ) were always the target vehicles for this technology.

    The Prius will retire gracefully in a while and the Camry will make Hybrid technology commonplace. 4c ICE, Hybrid or V6 ICE which do you prefer?
  • kdhspyder said:
    "The Prius will retire gracefully in a while and the Camry will make Hybrid technology commonplace. 4c ICE, Hybrid or V6 ICE which do you prefer? "

    I would prefer the Hybrid with a 6-speed manual transmission! It could then be a replacement for my wife's 2000 Avalon, which has been a great car.

    Cheers,

    MidCow

    P.S.- Someone is going to have to break the news to John1701A about the demise of the Prius
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    That's the new regs that the IRS stipulated last week. Each manufacturer has to register a qualifying VIN with the IRS in the format stipulated.

    BTW.. the FULL tax credit continues for at least one full quarter after the 60K unit limit is reached, probably to give the IRS some 'wiggle room' as to which vehicle exactly was #60000 and which was #60001. Thereafter the credit declines to 50% then 25% then to zero sometime next year likely.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    John is as fully aware of the raison d'etre for the Prius as anyone. He was one of the first and a good source of information since before the '04's launched.

    BTW.. I was trying to do it before but dont yet have all the specs. I believe the new XLE V6 will be more powerful and have more features ( for certain ) and nearly the same room ( TBD ) as the 2000 XLS Avalon... at $3000 to $3500 less money!! Impressive.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I sell them at another store and opted for the last '05 Prius on the lot on Nov 30th for the same reasons as your two buyers. But at 45000 mi/y I need mega efficiency. OTOH I reserve the right to change my mind since I've just come out of 15 yrs of trouble free Camry ownership over 4 different vehicles.

    Maybe I'll trade the Prius in July on my birthday. Nahh, I'll just max it out in 5 yrs and get then Gen7 Camry with Hybrid tech.
  • After reading about the 2007 camry hybrid and now seeing pictures of it all I can say is WOW!!!

    A car that big getting 43mpg? It looks like a cross between a Lexus and the new Maxima.

    I'm going to buy one! Toyota destroys the competition again!
  • larsblarsb Posts: 8,204
    OK, since there are specklings of "THC" and "TCH", let's settle on a common acronym.

    I think since the

    Honda Civic Hybrid is the HCH

    that the

    Toyota Camry Hybrid should be referred to as the TCH

    Anyone disagree? Let's make it the TCH and keep it consistent, agreed ...???.... :shades:
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    Prius is a hatchback, the only one available from Toyota. Toyota's business objective is to increase marketshare. Eliminating Prius would be counter-productive, especially since it is also known as the vehicle of which new technologies are introduced. So claims that it will be retired simply don't make any sense.

    Just look at how Prius doesn't compete directly with Camry-Hybrid. Toyota clearly hasn't positioned the design configuration to overlap, as some people have eluded.

    JOHN
  • Sorry kdh but I don't think Toyota has any plans to retire the Prius. Between the yearly dealer meetings, talks with Jim Press and others as well as numerous other meetings I have never heard a mention of that - ever.

    I agree with you that it is the prophet but I think that every time Toyota introduces new Hybrid technology in future - they are probably working on the 3rd or maybe 4th generation as I write this - it will always start with the Prius and make it's way to the other models. I have been told by the powers to be at Toyota that the Hybrid option will be less than $1000 by 2010 and offered on every model they make. The Prius helps them achive that with it's volume.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    The first TCH's are due here in May June from Japan. I understand that KY will be online ind 4th Qtr ramping up to ??? Initial volume projections are ~ 4000 units monthly.

    Just curious but will the TCH that will be offered during spring be from Japan?

    If I am not mistaken are "Made in Japan" Camrys different from the US made Camrys ? Especially in terms of dimensions(Japanese Camrys are smaller) and different interior designs.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Launch vehicle for new technology makes sense.. But I think the emphasis from here on will be the Camry as it always is. If Prius sales slump in favor of the Camry, Oh well...

    I didnt mean to imply that the Prius was done after this model. Another iteration certainly seems likely but the Camry always is the heart of the product line and IMO the emphasis will be there.

    I also own an MR2 which as you know was allowed to retire until a later date.
  • cammer2cammer2 Posts: 38
    I've read conflicting information about the platform being used for the 2007 Camry.

    On the one hand, it seems like the 2007 model should still be based on the existing 2002-2006 model. On the other hand, I've heard it's based on a new "global platform" from which the 2006 Avalon came.

    Anyone know which one of these is right?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    If I am not mistaken are "Made in Japan" Camrys different from the US made Camrys ?

    There was a perception at one time that the Camry's made in Japan were 'better'. I think that's been put to bed by now. Smaller no.. unless you were joshing..
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