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Toyota Camry Hybrid

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  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The tax credit's main purpose was to spur innovation in the technology. High demand hybrids such as the Prius and Camry Hybrid do not need the tax credit, they will sell well without it.

    This is not exactly correct on the part of Toyota and Honda since the technology was already in place since 2001. In the case of the US manufacturers yes this is true.

    The purpose of the credit was to reward actual buyers of the vehicles for getting out of older or less efficient gassers and acquire a new more efficient one. The credit doesnt go to the manufacturer it goes to the buyer.

    The tax credit of whatever amount doesnt go to the dealers in any way unless the buyer allows it. I understood that last year on the Prius people were paying up to $3000 over sticker in SoCal while people in MD were paying up to $1500 under sticker. Go figure.

    Yes I do agree that this is social engineering in that those that refuse to move to more efficient means of transport are paying some amount to those who are willing do so. The Congress and President seem to think this is good for our security and financial well being. It's shifting money from one set of taxpayers to another that's all.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    I respectfully but completely disagree.

    "This is not exactly correct on the part of Toyota and Honda since the technology was already in place since 2001. In the case of the US manufacturers yes this is true."

    Just because Toyota and Honda had the technology in place doesn't mean that they can't benefit from more innovation. Both Honda and Toyota hybrid technology still has a lot of room for improvement. But you’re right in that it was mainly for the benefit of US manufacturers.

    "The purpose of the credit was to reward actual buyers of the vehicles for getting out of older or less efficient gassers and acquire a new more efficient one.

    This is just not true. It’s a hybrid tax credit, NOT a gas efficiency tax credit. The primary purpose of the credit is to spur innovation in the technology. (Which is why the quantitiy limits are imposed per manufacturer, so that an established hybrid player such as Toyota does not excessively benefit.) If they really wanted to reward people who buy gas efficient vehicles, they would have given credits to people who buy small 4 cyl. cars, not RX400h/GS450h.

    “The credit doesnt go to the manufacturer it goes to the buyer. The tax credit of whatever amount doesnt go to the dealers in any way unless the buyer allows it."

    The credit technically goes to the buyer, but simple economics tells you that every link in the chain (from the manufacturer to dealer to consumer) benefits from it. Who benefits the most is up to debate. My opinion is that on an already high-demand/low-supply vehicle like Prius and Camry hybrid, the retailer (i.e. dealer) benefits the most.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Actualy I agree with a lot of what you posted as opposed to what mine stated. Yes it is directed mainly to hybrids not necessarily to more fuel efficient vehicles. Retiring a mid 90's F150 in favor of a new Civic is more beneficial than moving from an Accord to a Prius.

    The credit does encourage all the manufacturers to look at new technologies, especially hybrids, including soon hopefully clean diesels.

    Regarding who benefits the most.. again I say it depends on the buyer. If someone in the DC area can get$1500 off sticker on a Prius and get the full $3150 credit it cant benefit the retailer in any way except to move another piece of inventory. It can benefit the manufacturer by allowing him to bill the retailer say $500 more but if the retailer chooses to discount the vehicle then it gets no benefit. The buyer and the manufacturer share it.

    OTOH if the new hybrid Camry is being sold at $2000 over sticker in some locations then it is the retailer who benefits and neither Toyota nor the buyer do.
  • irlegirleg Posts: 1
    I have the same question about Boston.
    After driving my Avalon for almost ten years and over 130K miles and checking out the various Hondas and Toyotas, I've decided i want the new Camry Hybrid. What should I do to get it at the best price possible, given that I'm ready to retire my Avalon?
  • lanceqlanceq Posts: 16
    Does anyone if Michelin tires will be installed/available on the Hybrids? Given that they should provide a quieter, better handling, and perhaps longer lasting tire than the Bridgestones I certainly hope so.
  • gampagampa Posts: 78
    When they say a $3000 tax credit... doesn't that amount come off your Gross income...and the money back to the Hybrid Buyer is only $600.00 (+ or -)... if you are in the 20% tax bracket?

    Am I wrong on this?

    Gampa
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    First check with your tax advisor foryour specific situation. Not everyone qualifies due to AMT.

    A credit is a direct reduction in your taxes. That's why it's significantly different this year than last year. Last year it was an 'income reduction' which as you say would be ~$600 in the 20% bracket.

    However... the often mentioned $3000 probably only applies to the Prius. In the case of other vehicles it's lower down to a couple of hundred dollars for the GM hybrid trucks. Best guesstimates now on certain sites is that the TCH will be in the $2000-2500 range. If you qualify!!!
  • gampagampa Posts: 78
    Ok.. then the tax is subtracted from the tax we owe... good deal.

    After further research, I see the estimate for the Camry Hybrid will have a tax credit of about $2350
  • toostoos Posts: 12
    I was interested in a hybrid (Prius)2 years ago, but my wife wanted a Camry. She figured it was more reliable. Wrong. We bought a 2004 XLE 4 cylinder. The accelerator (all electronic control) suddenly decided to surge and now I have a smashed garage, XLE and Jeep (this thing went 90 feet before stopping). I'm still waiting for Toyota to send a rep to look at it. The promised "within 3 business days" response has not materialized either. I'm asking Toyota to come pull the codes, but I don't get the feeling they have any interest in doing it. So, was I wrong to not get the Prius? Perhaps not since it has control issues as well. I think the Camry is a great car when it runs right, but given what I have seen re the engine electronic controls and lack of interest in finding what the problem is by Toyota, I must say I'd wait a few years before considering a Camry hybrid.
  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    > Does anyone if Michelin tires will be installed/available on the Hybrids?

    Since I have over 35,000 miles with the Michelin HydroEdges on my Prius, that is a strong affirmative.

    Yes, you will find the upgrade well worth it.

    JOHN
  • njeraldnjerald Posts: 688
    99% chance of Driver error, 1% chance of auto malfunction in sudden acceraltion, although you have it all figured out.

    Brakes will stop a car!!!!!!!!!
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    Remember Audi about 10 years ago, it almost took them to bankruptcy :sick:
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    john said: "Since I have over 35,000 miles with the Michelin HydroEdges on my Prius, that is a strong affirmative. "

    Depending how many miles you had on your car it will begin paying off in only another 65,000 miles ( assuming you replace the OEM with the Michelin HydroEdges when you had zero miles). If your Prius is about 2 /12 years old , then you average about 14,000 miles a year and payout will begin in 7.14 years or approximately January 2011 Isn't that embarrassing :blush: ?

    Has anyone wonder why Edmnunds says this about the Prius in the cons: "Less power than other midsize sedans, real-world fuel economy doesn't live up to EPA estimates " ?

    I SHIFT,

    MidCow
  • njeraldnjerald Posts: 688
    Yes, I remember, do you!!!

    CBS's "60 Minutes" ran a devastating expose of the Audi 5000. Audi customers fled. Lawyers cashed in. The American public was saved, yet again, from the perils of technology gone awry. Only one little noticed footnote remains at the end: There was nothing wrong with the car.

    The Audi story is by now, dismally familiar. "Sudden acceleration" accidents occurred when the transmission was shifted out of "park." The driver always insisted he was standing on the brake, but after the crash the brakes always worked perfectly. A disproportionate number of accidents involved drivers new to the vehicle. When an idiotproof shift was installed so that a driver could not shift out of park if his foot was on the accelerator, reports of sudden acceleration plummeted.

    But a story to the effect that cars accelerate when drivers step on the accelerator doesn't boost television ratings or jury verdicts. And driver error is understandably hard to accept for a mother whose errant foot killed her sixyearold son. So with the help of such mothers, CAS and CBS knitted together a tissue of conjecture, insinuation and calumny. The car's cruise control was at fault. Or maybe the electronic idle. Or perhaps the transmission.

    "60 Minutes," in one of journalism's most shameful hours, gave air time in November 1986 to a selfstyled expert who drilled a hole in an Audi transmission and pumped in air at high pressure. Viewers didn't see the drill or the pump—just the doctored car blasting off like a rocket.

    Junk science of this kind moves fast. Real science takes time to catch up with this kind of intellectual cockroach and squash it. Government agencies in Japan and Canada, as well as in the U.S., conducted painstaking studies. The Canadians who are franker about such things, called it "driver error." In America, where we can't attach blame to anyone whose name doesn't end with Inc., it was called "pedal misapplication." And unsurprisingly, it's not just Audi drivers who commit it.
  • lanceqlanceq Posts: 16
    Thanks John. Unfortunately my sales person now tells me that my tires will be selected at random. It could be Michelins, or GoodYear or Bridgestone. No one has any clout as to what tire will be on the vehicle. Too bad!
  • toostoos Posts: 12
    Perhaps, but if that is true, why does Toyota make it so difficult to check the car? No, there is something wrong with the vehicle. Whether it is an anomaly or a indication of a problem that is wider spread, I have no idea. I do know this, Toyota apparently is not interested in finding out whether there is a life threatening defect or not. All I have asked for (nicely) is that they send THEIR OWN TECH to download the codes while I am there. Simple enough. After multiple calls, and days of discussion, I'm told I might see someone sometime next month, while the body shop makes noises indicating they want to fix the car or move it on. After it is fixed, I will be driving it (can't afford to get rid of it), not my wife. So, if something happens to me or the car, my wife can pull out the folder with the NHTSA report, insurance report, e-mails, and other records, and sue Toyota. I suppose then she'll get a more rapid response. Sigh, and I all I wanted from them was a analysis of the situation, no threat or argument made.
  • cammer2cammer2 Posts: 38
    I know that there are a few Toyota sales reps that read this site. Have any of you gone through training on the TCH? I've seen conflicting information - that the trunk is "fixed" or that it's a "60/40 split".

    Can anyone confirm which one it is?

    Also - does anyone know if the trunk hinges impede into the trunk space?

    Everything else about this car seems to meet all my criteria - but am trying to get more info about the trunk.

    Thanks for any information you can provide.
  • bmgoodmanbmgoodman Posts: 102
    I was told the same thing when I bought my '99 VW Passat. I told the dealer he could swap the wheels from another Passat to get me the Goodyear tires I wanted, or I would shop elsewhere. Amazing how quickly he swapped them--to include the spare. You might want to negotiate this as part of your deal.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    It's the XLE and the SE where the back seats are fixed due to the "../ \.." brace in the back. The CE, LE and Hybrid are all 40/60 fold down but the batteries take up some of the usable space in the TCH. It's on the website and it's in the new brochures out yesterday

    All trunk hinges impeded into the trunk space, they did last year. This year though they are not covered as they were last Gen.
  • killerbunnykillerbunny Posts: 141
    I personally think it's stupid to give tax credit to hybrid cars.

    How do we know hybrid is the way to go? How about diesel? How about other technologies? How much tax credit for each and everyone of them?

    The real problem is not a shortage of oil or something. It's the government wants to feed cheap oil/gas to certain industries and not others. Thus, they make all kinds of laws to complicate things. The corret thing to do? Open up the oil market and let the market have the final say.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,902
    Let's keep the focus on the hybrid Camry in this discussion - we've got a separate topic for the tax credit debate: Tax credits / incentives for hybrids?

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  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    Lanceq:

    John1701a did not get those tires when he bought his Prius. He went out and bought them to replace the OEM tires that came with the car. The OEMs are not very good. All John1701A was saying is that Michelin makes a good tire that will fit the Prius; Toyota is too cheap to put them on as original tires LOL.

    Good Luck with you Michelins,

    MidCow
  • aspesisteveaspesisteve Posts: 833
    well said (a bit lengthy, but well written)

    I remember it as well. Because soon after the story, Audi's re-sale value plumetted; I found myself driving one because suddenly I could afford one!
  • gandyfiregandyfire Posts: 36
    Does anybody know how many hybrids Toyota has sold during this last quarter ending in March?
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    But I can give you a good, close estimate.

    The RX400h and HLH are moving around 4500 units a month, combined.

    And the Prius has been selling 9-10k a month, similar to last year's numbers. Probably selling everyone they build.

    So figure just under 30k Prius, and 12-13k for the SUVs.

    When Camry Hybrid comes out, my understanding is they will build approx 46k this year, won't they sell everyone of them?

    DrFill
  • "Does anybody know how many hybrids Toyota has sold during this last quarter ending in March? "

    I saw on another forum that Toyota is reporting:
    5,750 RX400h
    7,881 Highlander Hybrids
    22,123 Prius

    for a grand total of 35,754 hybrid vehicles sold in the first quarter.

    Tax credits on Camry Hybrids should be good through the end of September! I just hope the new 40/38 mileage ratings don't kill most of the $2,350 estimated credit the ACEEE is currently reporting.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Received Toyota's official count and it's just over 42000 units. Expect the 60K unit limit to be reached around May 1. So everyone who buys by Sept 30 will get the full credit.... subject to your individual tax situation. Check with your tax advisor.
  • gampagampa Posts: 78
    There's that "Check with your tax advisor" again... does anyone know the details with out checking with the tax advisor...I don't know any good tax advisors but I just don't want to purchase the Camry-Hybrid and find out like
    "Sorry sir... "you made one dollar more then the limit so then you don't qualify!!!!

    May sound silly but I think you all understand...

    Anyone care to speculate!

    Gampa
  • parnolaparnola Posts: 140
    Everything I'm reading indicates that Toyota will reach their 60,000-mark in the current quarter, thus the full credit will be available through September 30th. The hybrid credit will likely be $2200 based on the new EPA mileage estimates.
  • midnightcowboymidnightcowboy Posts: 1,978
    How do you file your taxes? Do you use Turbo tax? if so it is easy? The limit is around $150,000 when your deductions exceed around %20 of gross.

    Cheers,

    P.s. I f you make enough to worry about hitting the AMT limit, then you should be worrying about money ;)
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