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Toyota Camry Hybrid

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  • 210delray210delray Posts: 4,722
    Preliminary info suggests the Camry Hybrid will be priced the same or higher than the top-of-the-line Camry XLE 4-cylinder.

    So you'd save a lot up front by just buying the conventional 4-cylinder CE or LE.

    My '04 4-cylinder LE is getting from 23 mpg in the city to 38 mpg on the highway. So far, my '05 XLE (also 4-cyl., but with the 5-speed auto) is getting 21/32 mpg city/highway.
  • I like to mention the TCH is a good balance of the two. The V6 has good power and run efficiently. If you drive highway moat of the time or frequently carry more than 3 and stuffs in the car, V6 is definitely has its edge not only in 0-60 acceleration. For drivers commute in the city that have average speed below 30mph or, even worse, stop and go, and only seat one or two most of the time, I4 is more than you need. Now, if you have a Hybrid, it take care both worlds except drag racing. The eletrical power provide plenty of torque which help when start at stop or full loaded while it run especially efficient in low speed and stop and go. Of cause for who concern gas mileage but need to drive highway most of the time, the saving is almost nothing except air pollution reliefe. To most driver ( I would say 90%) will benefit from hybrid at certain point.

    Unlike the Accord hybrid, performance is not the main focus so for those who got to leap ahead everyone at the traffic light TCH is not for them. I have to give credit to Toyota of their decision on practicability.

    For who still doubt the mileage saving on hybrid: research showing whoever bought a hybrid will more and less trying to challenge the best mileage they can achieve (EPA rating as goal for example). This somehow change the driving behavier a little. They tend to be more gentle on acceleration and deceleration as well. As to the number from testdrive article, those driver usually drive harder than most of us. So the mileage will be lower than average drivers in the real world. One thing I know is the more passengers you carry, the worse the gas mileage will be. The mileage difference will more likely stand so the percentage of moleage different is even higher. I usually keep the vehicle longer so to me I have 10 years to jusitify the $3k extra up front. Also keep in mind that the $3k including some option closed to $1000 plus tax deduction. Overall I may not save more by choosing hybrid but at least I contribute reduce the harmful emission!
  • negativenegative Posts: 107
    I saw the hybrid at the Philadelphia Auto Show tonight. Unfortunately, it was up on a turntable, off limits. But I asked the model who was turning along with it to open the trunk and fold down the rear seat. She obliged me. Why they bothered to give it a folding seat is a mystery. The opening is really small, and is only on the right (passenger) side. On the left is the battery, which blocks the opening. At least it's concealed behind some fabric trim. (The photo on pressroom.toyota.com made it look like the battery was exposed.) The trunk generally looked kind of small, although it was hard to tell since I couldn't get too close. I need to carry a bike, so the hybrid is off the (turn?) table for me.

    I sat in an '07 Camry XLE which was not on a turntable. As is typical of cars in auto shows, nothing electrical worked, so I couldn't adjust the seat, which was at its lowest position. The dashboard seemed kind of high, but maybe that was because of the seat position.

    I think that the door pull on the driver's door will be a problem for a lot of people. There's no way to use the window switches without hitting the left side of your wrist against it. The door pull may be a minor thing, but I think I'd find it really annoying. Perhaps Toyota should make Ace bandages optional equipment on the '07.

    In terms of comfort, space and visibility, the Hyundai Sonata and the incoming Kia Optima looked really good by comparison, and I will probably be buying one of them.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    Thanks for the new information about the trunk.

    The lack of opening seat space is an issue since the Camry would be our family's designated cargo hauler(we dont own a van, wagon or suv).
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,173
    This may be the same article from the LA TImes posted earlier. Some of us do not read the LA Times.

    How does it drive? Quintessentially Camry-like. Unlike the spanking-quick Honda Accord Hybrid, which uses the hybrid power to boost the performance of its V6 powerplant, the Camry moves at a deliberate and unhurried pace — which is to say, it's kind of slow. Although it has enough asphalt savvy for ordinary driving, it's rather yacht-like in its cornering and steering responses.

    Which makes the fuel economy all the more remarkable. Compared to the fuel economy of the 2.4-litre, automatic-equipped LE model (9.8 L/100 km city, 7.1 highway), the Hybrid offers about 30 per cent better fuel economy than the four-cylinder, even though it is heavier (by 160 kg) and more powerful (by 34 horsepower).


    TCH Review
  • Gagprice:

    If they say "the Camry moves at a deliberate and unhurried pace — which is to say, it's kind of slow." I wonder what they would say about the prius which is 2 seconds slower in the 0-60 time.

    I went out cruis'n in my 4 cylinder today. 237 hp out of 2.2L Life is great.

    MidCow

    P.S. -Even better my bonus this year almost paid for the car!
  • "If you drive highway moat of the time or frequently carry more than 3 and stuffs in the car, V6 is definitely has its edge not only in 0-60 acceleration. For drivers commute in the city that have average speed below 30mph or, even worse, stop and go, and only seat one or two most of the time, I4 is more than you need"

    There is no realistic need for a V6. All my family owns and drives are I4s and most of the time with 3 or 4 people in them. In my I4 civic I plenty of highway power being able to pass and merge and get on the highway quicker than many other vehicles that have V-6 or even 8-cylinders. What most people fail to realize is that the V-6 and 8cyl come with a lot more weight making them almost identical to 4cyl.

    In addition when at highway speeds there is barely any difference in power between most 4s and 6s. Plus the majority of people who say they need a V-6 to merge or climb a mountain barely even use any of that power and rarely have the engine go above 3-4k rpms.

    For all the people that say they need a V-6 to merge or pass on a highway, those are the people that get me nervous when driving next to. If they need the extra power to do simple manuevers, watch out! They are compensating for their poor driving skills.

    There is my 2 cents!
  • When at highway speeds, aerodynamics play a much greater role in your ability to accelerate when compared to power. The more slippery your car is the faster it will be able to accelerate on the highway.
  • njeraldnjerald Posts: 688
    The Hybrid drive/batteries cause a 33% loss in trunk space. Down to 10+ ft3.
  • Mthexuma said: "When at highway speeds, aerodynamics play a much greater role in your ability to accelerate when compared to power. The more slippery your car is the faster it will be able to accelerate on the highway. "

    Wrong! Horsepower/torque is still what allows a car to accelerate.

    The CD coefficient of drag is a factor, but it is not the major factor in accleration at highway speed.

    If you think different go get a SRT8 (425 horsepower Hemi) Jeep which has a crummy CD 0f ).51 and compare it against a Prius which hhas a low CD (.25) at highway speed for acceleration.

    For highway driving, the key is to drive slower. That's true for all cars, but especially for hybrids.

    Wind resistance increases with the square of velocity, and at highway speeds wind resistance is the dominant consumer of energy in your car. So if you drive twice as fast, your car has to work four times as hard, and even though your trip only takes half as long, your engine still has to do twice as much work to get you there.

    Wind resistance does increase as the square of the velocity, but horsepower/torque is what differentiates acceleration. And torque can be increased with lower gears,!! Try putting a 4.11 rear end in a Prius and you will see what I mean.

    The only time CD comes into play is when the torque/horsepower of the two cars in nearly equal.

    LOL,

    MidCow, slippin through the air.
  • The new 2007 Camry is a great improvement with Avalon's V6 (268 hp) and a six speed auto. Being several hundred pounds lighter than the Avalon and having an extra gear, why isn't the Camry even faster than the Avalon and get even better mileage? Hopefully with a sixth gear it has a lower rpm at sixty than the 5-speed Avalon.
    Good job Toyota. Honda will have their work cut out for them with their new Accord in 2008.
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,863
    "The new 2007 Camry is a great improvement with Avalon's V6 (268 hp) and a six speed auto. Being several hundred pounds lighter than the Avalon and having an extra gear, why isn't the Camry even faster than the Avalon and get even better mileage? Hopefully with a sixth gear it has a lower rpm at sixty than the 5-speed Avalon.
    Good job Toyota. Honda will have their work cut out for them with their new Accord in 2008."

    Ummm, no doubt, but what does this have to do with hybrids?
  • lanceqlanceq Posts: 16
    I have some questions for you the Camry Hybrid gurus:

    1) Any update on the possibility of getting a tax credit on the initial hybrid offerings?

    2) Any ideas of the purported new exterior colors that will be offered.

    3) Have any of you negotiated any solid contracts to purchase. I would consider a valid contract would be a “out the door price + tags and title” based on invoice plus say $1500 or so. Colors and options could be selected when available.

    Thanks so much.
    lance
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    1.) If they do come out in late 2nd qtr and you take one then they for sure you will get the tax credit assuming that you are entitled to it. see your tax advisor.

    2.) Almost all of them have been shown already.
    White,black, silver, gold, barcelona red, silver pine mica, nautical blue, blue mirage? ( Avy color ), one more maybe.

    3.) Dont count on any discount on the TCH's. Initially there will be only 2-3 per store. Think Prius more than Camry. 2-5 month waiting list likely at sticker. Above sticker in certain areas. SoCal? So FLA.
  • lanceqlanceq Posts: 16
    1) I hope you are right and the toyota 60,000 Hybrid tax unit allocations is not used up by that time.

    2) I was under the impressions that the Hybrids would come out with some different color combinations. I don't know.

    3) Yes I agree that with 2-3 per dealer, the purchase will be tough without paying a premium. Good luck to everyone.

    lance
  • stevedebistevedebi LAPosts: 3,863
    "1.) If they do come out in late 2nd qtr and you take one then they for sure you will get the tax credit assuming that you are entitled to it. see your tax advisor."

    Only if you can actually purchase one - depends on availability. I expect that Toyota will sell it's 60K vehicles by June 30, which means the full tax credit would only go until September 30. If Toyota is smart, they won't sell that 60,001st vehicle until July 1; then their customers will get the full deduction for this entire year!
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Very true,
    Estimates:
    Prius' sell about 8000 / mo
    400h / HH sell about 5000 / mo

    If sales continue at'normal levels then 60000 should be reached in May... just before the Camry comes out. You're right if the sales drag out for another 45 days then the credit will last all year.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Don't forget that the GS450h is coming out soon, although it won't sell in volume. But it may be the difference in pushing Toyota over the 60k mark.
  • Just came from the Toronto Autoshow today. The new Camry and FJ Cruiser would make a pretty awesome garage in my book. Stylish, quality, reliability, resale and functional. In my book that is the ultimate garage. I don't need a Lambo. What a fantastic job TOYOTA, you have to check them out.

    Now which one first????? The Cruiser or the Camry?
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    I am quite amazed that this forum is focused on anything but the hybrid Camry.

    If this forum is an indicator to future demand for the hybrid Camry, then I do see dark clouds ahead for hybrid Camry sales.

    Indifference seems to be the prevailing theme in this fourm. Is there anybody out here with a actual view of the Camry hybrid (good or bad)?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    I think it's a little early yet, Dewey. Since very few have seen the new style upclose and personal yet there isnt much yet.

    The new RAV began slowly and the reactions, now that people have actually driven it, are universally positive and actually most stores are sold out or have very few.

    People have to see them and touch them and drive them in person for there to be a sizzle. Initially there will only be about 2 per store per month so they will appeal to a few 'early adopters' until word begins to spread.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,243
    You may be right, but I do recall all the enthusiasm and dissent in the hybrid Accord and Prius 2 forums before these two models were introduced for sale.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,173
    People have to see them and touch them and drive them in person for there to be a sizzle.

    I agree with you. I would never even consider a car until I test drove one. As long as Toyota plays their game of hide and seek with hybrids, it will be difficult for mainstream buyers to consider them. Hybrids will be niche vehicles for the "just gotta have the latest" buyers.
  • wstevecwstevec Posts: 126
    Hi, has anyone seen any pricing information for the 2007 Camry Hybrid?
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Prolly not until just before it debuts in June. The pricing on Toyota's usually comes a week or so before the vehicles arrive.
  • wstevecwstevec Posts: 126
    Thanks, does anyone have the pricing on the Gas powered 2007 Camry? I think the 2007 are starting to arrive at dealers now so there might be some info out there and perhaps we can just add $5000 for the Hybrid.
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    Pretty close guesstimates;

    4 cylinder models
    CE $20500
    LE $22000
    XLE $24000
    SE $23500

    V6 models
    LE $24000
    XLE $28000
    SE $25500

    Hybrid 4c???
    $26500 - 30500 depending on equipment
  • beantownbeantown Posts: 228
    Those numbers are all at least $1,500 above their 2006 counterparts (some, like the XLE V6, are almost $3,000 over their 2006 counterparts). Toyota won't do that. They'll keep them within $500 of the current models. Check out the prices on toyota.com now and then add $500-$750 at the most and you'll have a better gauge of what they'll probably look like.

    Expect the Hybrid to start in the low $20s and cap out well below $30K. They already said they were looking to price it below the XLE.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Bob, the 2007 Camry colors do not include Blue Mirage nor Nautical Blue. Check out the toyota.jp website. We are getting those colors but not the pearl white. Hybrid I believe will only be available in the Silver pine, Desert sand, and maybe two or three other colors.
    Mackabee
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