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What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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Comments

  • texasestexases Posts: 5,698
    Probably about the size of the original Rabbit. I had to laugh, it's to help VW TRIPLE its US sales in the next 10 years...yeah, right!
  • gussguss Posts: 1,181
    How many times have we heard VW plans to increase their sales only to end up losing sales.

    I like the Polo, hopefully the TDI will make it over here.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    Ditto that. 80 mpg sounds good to me. :-)

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,978
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,698
    Good luck to Fiat and Chrysler. I thought most Fiats don't meet US regs, including the 500 :confuse:
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,978
    The 500 isn't that much smaller than the MINI, and with the right drive train, maybe it could pass muster here.

    Moderator
    Minivan fan. Feel free to message or email me - stever@edmunds.com.

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,738
    Yes, but the Fiat is Mini cute/appealing to people, seats 4, and is less money. The Smart is going to be facing the same problems it does in Europe soon.

    That said, the Polo with the TDI engine gets well over 60mpg.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    And it might actually be fun.

    I hope they don't de-content it too much to get the price way down.

    They should aim squarely for the Honda Fit, and take the premium compact end of the segment.
  • Fiat 500 is now gaining popularity here in U.K. It really is a looker in an updated Cinquecento sort of way - all the same styling clues but with added room, (and, it is hoped, reliability. Those little air-cooled motors didn't like rain/damp). It's no load carrier but more practical than a Smart. You can at least carry three other people. In size it is smaller than Mini. Lengths are, (in metres) :

    F 500 : 3.55

    Mini : 3.70

    Jazz : 3.83

    The Jazz just plain outperforms the other two in interior space/useability and the 500 just isn't up to challenging it, nor is it designed to; the Jazz just uses every cubic inch in the cabin, (or so my wife says of hers).

    Would be hard to de-spec the F500, they'd have to leave off the doors or something. Very nice little car but you'd buy one more for "style" than anything else; but "style" it has in bucketloads. Fiat recently launched the "Abarth" version here. 150bhp and tweaked, plus lots of go-faster goodies, (you know, body stripes, scorpion decals etc - that kind of go-faster). Now that will be a blast; style and fun in one small package. :shades:
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    I'm actually beginning to have some hope that the premium compact/subcompact segment may take off in the next few years. There are at least 3 major automakers talking about offering models in that vein in the next 2 years, including VW, Chrysler with Fiat's help, and Toyota. And of course, we already have Mini, and the Fit aint too bad... ;-)

    Will be interested to see how dressed up the Beat will be when it arrives, and what its performance will be like.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,750
    When the world economy was doing good wasn't Fiat bleeding red ink like a whale speared by a Japanese ship? I like Italian cars but never have they been considered dependable enough for most people here. The only upside I could see is they would have a ready built distributership connected with Chrysler. Still Any new car release in 2009 and maybe even 2010 will be a hard sell unless it is Cheap. Cost out the door is going to be the number one consideration for the next few years and unless they can undercut the Koreans and be at least as dependable it will be a big risk to spend the money to meet US standards.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    Welllll......if you look at the cheapest subcompacts on the market, you usually find they are not the best-selling. So price is important, but maybe not the whole story in a segment where everything is priced fairly close together.

    But I was thinking more of premium subcompacts - superlative performance or features or both. Models like the Abarth that could be sold for prices as high as many compact cars. For now though, the Fiat talk is just talk, I agree.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • I'd like a 500 Abarth as our 3rd car, (Volvo S60 + honda Jazz), but we really don't need a third car, so it's not going to happen. :cry:

    Odd review last week on the new Ford Ka, which is their smallest offering; smaller than the Fiesta. Existing Ka is quirky and well-liked, (despite using the oldest pushrod engine of any European car). The new Ka is, stylistically, a baby Fiesta. The review I read absolutely slated the car as being a real backward step from the original, in all departments. Now all the other Fords in Europe; Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Galaxy are highly rated in their sectors and yet the Ka gets the thumbs down in a big way. Then the reviewer pointed out that the new Ka shares the same platform as the Fiat 500.............which is universally praised and loved...............so how can they have got it so wrong ?

    Beats me but the Ford/Fiat tie-up info was interesting.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    The old Ka had a lot more character, and before anyone says it copied the New Beetle lets remember it came out first.

    Fiesta could bring a hot model here, too. ST?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    the latest-promised addition to the U.S. lineup of subs, expected to be here in 2 years or less? That's right, the Polo. The new one makes the old one look positively frumpy! Check out the gallery here:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/03/geneva-2009-2010-volkswagen-polo/

    And 62 mpg for the diesel! I don't know what a BlueMotion Polo will sticker at, but it will be on my watch list for sure. Will give the Fit hybrid (if that model makes it to fruition) a serious run for its money.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • oregonboyoregonboy Posts: 1,653
    Nice looking 5-door hatch.
    I wonder what the little panels below the headlights are for?

    No pics with the hatch open, but it looks like the tail-lights intrude into the opening.
    Interior shots show a manual transmission (Woo-Hoo!) :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I don't like that new front end. Same with the new Golf.

    Otherwise, bring it.

    Problem is, it won't be any cheaper than the base Golf is now. They'll just move the Golf up in price and content to make room.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    That's fine with me, Golfs base around $17,5 now, as does the Fit Sport. The Polo at that price will have a much better interior and better fuel economy than the Honda. Comparing the Polo to the Mini Cooper, it will be less expensive and again have better fuel economy, although the Mini will have better moves. Straight-line acceleration, however, should be very similar.

    We are (I hope) gradually going to see the emergence of two subclasses: economy subcompacts and "premium" subcompacts. With Yaris/Versa/Aveo/Rio/Accent in the first group, and Polo/Fiesta/Fit/Mini in the latter. Imagine that! In less than a decade we have gone from pretty much NO choices to NINE! :-)

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I agree that would be a nice split segment.

    Hey, I'm thiiiiiiiis close to picking up a new Miata, power retractable hard top.

    Small = fun.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    Oooo, I'm jealous. The PRHT is the only Miata I would have. Although considering my (ahem!) girth, I can't really fit in that car, so it's probably off the list for me. :-(

    Of course, I just have to add: that's the really nice thing about all of today's minis (the Mini included) - lots of interior space for driver and passengers, despite the small outside dimensions.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    My 1993 was tight on legroom, but the new ones are OK.

    I'm picking it up tonight, it's pretty much a done deal. I even have a backup out-the-door price just in case this falls through.

    Stormy Blue Mica, PRHT, Touring model 6 speed manual, and of course I'm getting the Suspension package, with Bilstein shocks, 17" rims, lower profile tires, and most importantly a Torsen rear limited-slip diff!

    I'm on Cloud 9! :shades:
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    Make that, extremely jealous!

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • andres3andres3 CAPosts: 5,343
    The Toyota Corolla is still embarrassing the likes of Chevy Aveos and anything from Kia.

    The Corolla is light years ahead of garbage like the Chevy Aveo. Corolla is more comparable to new Malibu than Aveo is to Corolla

    GM is dead, dying, and over!
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    The Toyota Corolla is still embarrassing the likes of Chevy Aveos and anything from Kia.

    The Corolla is light years ahead of garbage like the Chevy Aveo. Corolla is more comparable to new Malibu than Aveo is to Corolla


    Toyota Corolla Base Price Base Model: $15,350
    Chevrolet Aveo Base Price Base Model: $12,645
    Kia Rio Base Price Base Model: $12,145
    or a 30% difference

    Misguided anger aside, you should compare apples and apples.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    Yes, rent a Yaris from a dealer. Quite a decent little car for $13,000. Better than a rental Aveo I had. I have only driven the Accent, between current Korean subcompacts. I was fairly impressed (given a sticker of $14,5), but then I DID drive the SE, which is the "sport" model with the huge rims.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Yes, rent a Yaris from a dealer.

    A few of my friends have Scion xAs and xBs, which are pretty much the same thing. I can't say I was too impressed either way. My friend was bragging about how inexpensive his xA was, but then bought a suspension kit and tires/wheels to make it drivable and by then the price was in Mazda3 territory, which seems better in every performance measure save fuel economy. Even Shiftright, who loved his xA needed a rear sway bar and tires. I don't see the Yaris as being an improvement.

    The Accent I had as a rental recently seemed acceptable although I didn't have it over 45 mph. Even when it had 2 passengers it felt fine. I am pretty sure it was the base model, I don't think it had cruise or the power package.

    The Aveo is cheap. Thats its claim to fame. Transaction prices are south of 5 digits. I would opt for a used car before something like that, but I am also more comfortable with doing my own maintenance.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,695
    I didn't say Yaris was bar none the best car on the roads today. It is an economy subcompact designed and built to a price. For $13,000 it is a decent drive, and it is a noticeably better car than the Aveo in many ways. That's all I was saying.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 22,152
    Toyota Corolla Base Price Base Model: $15,350

    Start adding options, and those Corollas can get expensive fast, too. Although I guess the same can be said of any car. One of my office mates briefly had a 2009 Corolla S, and I think he paid around $20K for it. IIRC, he said it MSRP'ed for around $22K. Now it was a nice car, with power windows, alloys, and a sunroof. But it didn't have power seats or leather, and I think it still just had the base engine.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    didn't say Yaris was bar none the best car on the roads today. It is an economy subcompact designed and built to a price. For $13,000 it is a decent drive, and it is a noticeably better car than the Aveo in many ways. That's all I was saying.

    Is the Yaris really a 13,000 car or are actual transaction prices north or south of that? The Aveo is a 10,000 car as far as I can tell from the papers. I don't have a sense of that either way with the Toyota. Does Nissan still have the $9999 Versa?
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