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What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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  • podredpodred Posts: 127
    Ten Points for your terrific Humor...Thanks!

    It's a small world, the funny part of this is after we graduated from college a good friend of mine became an Allstate Agent! He has been my insurance man for years, Allstate has been great to me, and everyone wins! Now years later his book of business at Allstate is be admired.......

    So, thanks for the fond memories....... ;)
  • podredpodred Posts: 127
    Great Post! You understand my point very clearly. Despite all the different cars I have, I have always enjoyed small, light, short wheelbase, nimble, high performance (and sometimes not so high performance) cars..... its all about the FUN!..... ;)
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    "its all about the FUN!....."

    Yes, and nobody has fun in a Camry LE. Yaris, Fit, etc are basic transportation that are ALSO fun. :-)

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • podredpodred Posts: 127
    Yaris, Fit, etc are basic transportation that are ALSO fun

    Agreed, that is my point exactly. It's about lightening up and simply having fun.

    And believe me it doesn't take an 850hp Supercar to have fun. Are they fun, yes they certainly are, I know I own several. As someone who is certainly qualifiedly to be a "Supercar Snob" it's me. And yet I'm certainly not one.

    I'm just a car guy, a hard core car guy that has lived, breathed, raced, crashed, recovered, dusted myself off and dived right back into the field of interest that is highly populated by guys like me that just love cars. Of all types, sizes, horsepower ratings, and performance characteristics.

    I'm not married to any brand, size, shape, or performance type. Yes, of course, I do have my favorites, however that's the crux of "my problem" I'm a car addict...... :P

    In fact that's the reason I just happened to get involved in this forum, one of the more "unlikely" spots for me to land. As I must say that while I enjoy the supercar forums, the ego's and arrogance get a bit old. Too many young doctors, ceo's, etc that have no life experience, do not understand that there is more to the world than just "what they see". Too many that own their cars as trophy's, having no clue , no passion for fine mechanical design, even more distressing.........they have no clue how to drive their car which is why to them it's just a toy....what a waste of a fabulous car. So in turn many of us "enthusiasts", with driving skills, mechanical skills and a love of all things automotive, usually hang around those forums for a relatively short period of time.

    In this forum I find great people with commons sense, intelligence, good conversation and wonderfully devoid of the "fronts" that the young rich arrogant men seem to cling to.

    Cheers!....... ;)
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,850
    Yes, and nobody has fun in a Camry LE

    Depends on how big the back seat is...
    Although with a Fit you could fold down the back seat and have even more room for fun. :shades:
  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,676
    I don't think single guys with Camrys have the ladies lining up.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,850
    I don't think single guys with Camrys have the ladies lining up.

    LOL, there's a guy here at work that has a '95 or so Camry, and he regularly complains about female problems. I never made the connection before, but maybe the Camry has something to do with it? :P
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,746
    In the NY Times...conclusion: "what's the point?"
    NYT Smart avg 32 mpg


    The thing is that very post is the point. At least in the case of the Smart. It might be why the Smart has been bleeding red even in Europe.

    To be honest we have to admit that a car is just a machine. They should be judged as a machine not as some anthropomorphic creature. They aren't loyal and they don't do more for you than they would for someone who bought them or even stole one from you. Subjective terms such as fun to drive are nothing more than that, subjective. It is the driver not the vehicle that determines what fun is to them. Some people may like to feel more connected to the driving experience and to them that is fun. Some may want a more relaxed and smooth experience and may enjoy their sound system more than the feel of the rain groves and that they call fun. But in judging a machine we can only go by how well does it do what it was designed to do. Sub Compacts are designed to cost less and deliver better fuel mileage. If they fail in those requirements there is something wrong with them.

    The question falls to are the new sub compacts giving us the best fuel mileage possible? If the answer is no there is a problem. Are the new sub compacts the least expensive cars we can buy new? If the answer is no there is a problem.

    However if someone were to say, "I just prefer little cars." that would be just as acceptable as any answer. It is much more acceptable than trying to convince the consumer that sub compacts are the salvation of our society. Smaller homes, planned communities, maybe even riding a bicycle will have a far greater impact on our carbon footprint.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    "Sub Compacts are designed to cost less and deliver better fuel mileage"

    Oh boaz, they serve so many other, different purposes, which is why each design is unique! Some are designed to cost less (Yaris, Aveo) while others are not (Fit, Cooper). Some deliver better fuel mileage (Yaris, Cooper) while others do not (Fit, Aveo). All of them provide nimbler handling than their midsize brethren that generally weigh an additional ton or more. Most are easier to park, easier to maneuver, easier to whatever. Most are designed to deliver comfort to the driver, some are designed to deliver a more sporting experience to the driver.

    What a wonderful myriad of choices we will have along this huge spectrum if a few of the really great models come to our shores that aren't here already!

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,746
    What a wonderful myriad of choices we will have along this huge spectrum if a few of the really great models come to our shores that aren't here already!

    You did read the Smart review? Is that an example you consider nimble? Or is comfort a relative thing? While I realize you are smitten with the small car bug I have to wonder how you explain the success of the lumbering mid sized market? Why did people leave the sub compact fold of the 70s only to return to it only when fuel became so expensive? Something keeps people looking for more than a sub compact in their daily driver or more people would have stuck with them when Accords and Camrys got bigger.

    From a practical point do you believe if fuel was still 2 bucks a gallon sub compacts would still be a success in the US? If not why not? The answer to that question will focus on what the origional question of this forum addresses. Why do you feel some of the manufacturers are reluctant to bring over the very same sub compacts you so covet? What makes their market people so timid?
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,850
    I have to wonder how you explain the success of the lumbering mid sized market?

    Well, I think one reason the midsized car market is so popular is that it's absorbed a lot of people who otherwise would have bought a full-sized car, or perhaps a larger SUV or crossover. So that in and of itself shows that there is increasing demand for smaller cars. "Smaller", being a relative thing, of course.
  • bristol2bristol2 Posts: 736
    What makes their market people so timid?

    Different safety and emissions regulations that weren't in the manufacturer's original development scope.
    Also, many of the best sub-compact manufacturers do not have dealership networks in this country (Fiat 500, Peugot 205 etc.).
  • thegreatozthegreatoz Posts: 39
    "...nobody has fun in a Camry LE"

    That's precisely why the Camry is nicknamed "The Japanese Buick!" :D
  • thegreatozthegreatoz Posts: 39
    Here's another angle for Smart economy...

    Say, God-forbid, you get hit broadside in your teeny, tiny Smart...and the wheels don't fall off (like they're supposed to do) and you're not slid down the street safely (like a hockey puck), as the Smart salespeople claim will save your life in a broadside.

    Your family simply buries you strapped IN your Smart and they save $6,000+ on a coffin.

    Now that's real economy. ;)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,614
    i upsized to a mid size(fusion) from a compact(focus). one thing i don't miss is those mid size car drivers looking at me and just pulling out in front of me because i was driving a smaller car. :(
  • thegreatozthegreatoz Posts: 39
    "...those mid size car drivers looking at me and just pulling out in front of me because i was driving a smaller car..."

    AMEN ! ;)
  • scape2scape2 Posts: 4,119
    here in the U.S. have a history of being "Cheap". In Europe and Asia small cars are fun to drive, safe and have great quality/fit/finish. I know Americans are ready for a small car that delivers a lot of the options that only come in mid-size/larger vehicles. I know, I am one of them! I believe they are coming very soon. I bet within the next 2-3 years we will see a plethora of small cars with style, safety and the options of larger vehicles available.
  • thegreatozthegreatoz Posts: 39
    "I bet within the next 2-3 years we will see a plethora of small cars with style, safety and the options of larger vehicles available."

    I agree, but with the sticker price of larger vehicles too! :cry:
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    I know that people have discussed the Smart car at length in this forum, because it was the closest topic they could find. I do not consider it a subcompact, I consider it a microcar, and as yet there is not much place in this oversized, power-crazed American market for microcars. We may yet find that one emerges, and if so I expect they will also begin to offer the smaller engines you expected to see now, boaz. Then you will finally have your 70 mpg microcars, and if gas is $8/gallon by then I am sure every single one will find buyers.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Posts: 5,675
    is bringing the Cube to America. And what is its engine size? 1.3L and 85 hp, or size to that effect? Yep, small-small-small and subcompact in size at the biggest. The Cube is really in micro-car category, actually. It may be considered a micro-car. But Nissan will bring it to the U.S. and China. The Cube could become a real hit in China eventually. Oh, yes, bring on the little eency cars!

    2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS

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