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What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?



  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    sorry, but i think that calculator is useless. tirerack has rpms per mile.

    Just for clarity, what did you think the revs/mi was on the chart?

    also, i measure the odometer not the speedometer.

    So you can back-average the speed so you know what to tell the kind gentleman with the badge?

    i also experienced a big drop in gas mileage when i changed tires on my focus.
    i got most of it back when i switched back to the original tire model

    Hmm your experience is someone opposite of mine. When I replaced the 195/60HR15 MXV4 Energy tires with 195/60VR15 Khumo ASX tires, I got both a dramatic improvement in handling, consistent fuel economy, and 4 Khumos were $12 more than 1 MVX4.
  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    Almost all factory odometers are set up to be 2-3% faster than you are actually going in order to not have people sue them for getting tickets and so on.

    So you have to adjust a bit to compensate - unless you have a digital one that is - those are pretty close to exact with stock tires.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 39,960
    This link may be of interest:

    Odometer Accuracy Not Regulated By Federal Law

    Investigation Reveals Inaccuracy Of Many Cars Odometers

    Need help navigating? - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Almost all factory odometers are set up to be 2-3% faster than you are actually going in order to not have people sue them for getting tickets and so on

    Well, that and if it reads a higher speed, its more miles which helps the car companies a lot. It provides for shorter warranty periods (2-3% of 36,60, or 100k miles adds up), higher lease fees (people are going over mileage when they aren't), and people think they are getting better mileage than they are. They also service vehicles more frequently.

    I am not saying its a huge conspiracy, just food for thought. I think Honda got called out for making their speedos read too fast at one point. Alternatively, fines in European countries are levied by photo-radar starting at 3kph over the limit, which is not so much.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,613
    the revs per mile on a generic calculator don't matter. the actual revolutions per mile do matter. like i said, the tire you have can match it or not.
    if you want to measure mileage travelled by the speedo, it's ok with me,
    i just don't do it that way. i use a 30 to 40 mile run on the highway using the mile markers.
  • boaz47boaz47 Posts: 2,744
    "Now in some extreme cases, like the CR-X, and other ultra-economy-minded cars of the 80's, today's cars are nowhere near as close in terms of fuel economy."

    Isn't the whole point of an economy car economy? The very term, considering, if you look at the average, or better than expected, when used for a sub compact just proves the point. Sub compacts today may be better than some of their old sub compact relatives but no better than their bigger brothers in the mid sized and compacts are compared to their grand parents. But if you remember the old Camry and look at the new one you can see it is not only more comfortable but gets much better fuel mileage and is safer than the old Camry. That is pretty much the case across the board in that size car. But looking at your own quote you realize that sub compacts are not as good at their prime focus, economy, as they should be. But you can excuse that in the case of the CR-x, VW rabbit diesel and Metro twins with the simple words, considering the new standards. ;)
  • oregonboyoregonboy Posts: 1,653
    Good post - excellent points. ;)

    While it may not be a huge conspiracy, you have to believe that the car companies are aware of the implications of their cars odometers reading high. 2-3% savings in warranty claims on millions of vehicles must be significant. :mad:

  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,623
    Higher indicated speeds on the speedometer don't always correlate with incorrect odometer readings..

    BMWs are famous for the "optimistic" speedometers.. I'd estimate that my wife's reads at least 4 miles over at 75mph.. But, her odometer is right on the money (checking over long distances by mile markers).

    When speedometer/odometers had a mechanical connection, that would be true, but now that they are electronic, the odometer doesn't necessarily get it's information from the speedometer, or vice versa..


    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • oregonboyoregonboy Posts: 1,653
    It is true that the tire calculator assumes that all tires of a given specification have the same rolling circumference. Obviously this is not totally accurate; tires vary by manufacturer and style. If fact two identical tires will differ with different tire pressures.

    Still, I think you are wrong to call the calculator useless. It give a fair indication of relative rolling circumference, which is quite useful. After I purchased my tires, I did confirm the accuracy of my speedometer in much the same way as you do: by measuring the transit time at a constant speed against the roadside mile markers. It's all good. :shades:

  • oregonboyoregonboy Posts: 1,653
    That would be an interesting study: speedometer vs odometer accuracy It does seem that the manufacturers would be at risk of a class action lawsuit if it could be shown that their odometers read consistently high.

    Actually, I think that even with mechanical speedo/odometers, they could be easily set to read independently high and/or low. ;)

  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,676
    A lawsuit. They have to feel darned if they do, darned if they don't. If the speedos weren't slightly optimistic people would complain that they weren't protected from speeding tickets.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 27,623
    I vaguely remember something about Honda settling such a lawsuit over odometer discrepancies...

    I'm not really into the mechanical side of things, but when I used to drive an Econoline for a living, there was a plastic piece in the speedometer/odometer bits that was sort of like a screw... If you were reading too fast, you changed from a 16 groove screw to a 17 groove screw (in this case, you = our mechanic). And, both speedometer and odometer were directly tied into the same system..

    I complained once about the reading, and the mechanic went the wrong direction with it.. I was running an indicated 60 mph, but the mile markers had me doing 74mph!! That's my story, and I'm sticking to it

    Prices Paid, Lease Questions, SUVs

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I vaguely remember something about Honda settling such a lawsuit over odometer discrepancies...

    Yep. And because of it, my car's 3/36k warranty (2006 Accord) has been extended to 38,200, I believe.

    Whatever; I'm sure this suit was another kind of case where the lawyers got millions, and each claimant got 30 cents in the mail.
  • podredpodred Posts: 127
    Wasn't dealer-installed a/c a common thing with Japanese cars in general, and Honda in particular, until fairly recently?

    Here is the honest, if somewhat hard to believe answer. I know because I worked for Toyota Motor Sales at the time. They are in Torrance CA, and the distributor of all Toyotas to each dealer in the US.

    As much as we (the US distributor) asked for factory installed A/C, the Japanese arm of Toyota just didn't get it. They simply could not believe it was that important. Even when we were purchasing over thousands of AC kits from them through the parts depot for the dealers to install in the cars. Interesting....... ;)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,613
    ok, i get it. i am referring to the odometer and you are comparing to the effect on the speedometer. i only care about the effect on the odometer. nobody asks about the average speed when you sell a car, but they do care about how far it has travelled. :)
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    "Yaris reported all-time best-ever sales of 14,397 units (in May), up 26.6 percent over the year-ago month."

    WOW! It's hot. That's almost half as many sales as Accord and Ford's F-series. Subcompact sales are ballooning so rapidly it's hard to keep track. :-)

    Get this: Camry, Corolla, Accord, and Civic ALL beat the F-series truck to be the top 4 selling vehicles in May. And were the midsizers on top of the list? NO! The two top sellers were Civic (#1) and Corolla (#2)! The market is finally downsizing, or as I like to say, appropriate-sizing. ;-)

    With regard to Yaris specifically, it is now selling at the same rate as the RAV4 and the Sienna van, and selling at a ratio of almost 3:1 vs the Avalon. That puts it at the same sales rate as most of the best-selling compact and midsize cars from other automakers, and well above some.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I read that the Accord had 43,728, so technically, the Yaris had just under 1/3rd of the Accord's record-breaking sales.

    But, i AM just nitpicking. :)

    If I were not 6'5", I'd be driving a Civic right now. As it is, I drive a 30+ MPG Accord. I figure that's not too bad for a guy my size, right? ;) I really wanted the room of a full-size truck, and could've gotten a nicely equipped Silverado for less than my Accord EX, but I went the green-way and got the Honda. ;)
  • oregonboyoregonboy Posts: 1,653
    It's funny how prices and availability of USED vehicles have been affected by fuel prices. I was out driving yesterday and within just a few miles of home, I saw five full-sized 4x4 pickups and/or SUVs parked on private sites with for sale signs on them.

    How many small cars did I see for sale... ZERO. (Yes I know, small sample size, statistically insignificant.) But I would wager that one would find similar results with a larger sample
  • british_roverbritish_rover Posts: 8,476
    I started looking for a used Focus hatchback stick a while ago for a run around car and there are NONE around. The few that you can find have a ton of miles on them.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    if you tour the NEW CAR dealers, you will find the same thing.

    My local Toyota dealer has exactly two Corollas and two Yarises as of yesterday. Contrast this with about two dozen each of Tundra, Sienna, RAV4, and Camry. The Tundras all have huge red discount ads hanging from the rear view mirrors - $5000 off, $7000 off, 0% for 60 months, etc etc. With Tundra, I think they only just finished clearing out their '07s.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

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