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What is "wrong" with these new subcompacts?

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Comments

  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    The Corolla began as a great car, then flogged by the minions, what can one expect... beat to crap....NOT garbage by any means.

    Eh, it is a tippy, non-responsive, dull appliance of a transport. The base model doesn't even have sway bars. Its a pretty miserable drive (perhaps not the new '09, but so far the reports haven't been too encouraging).

    In contrast to a Civic, which feels more responsive, handles better, and has no drawbacks relative to the Corolla.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Playing devil's advocate here, but the Corolla does have a much smoother highway ride than the Civic, with less "fidgety" steering.

    I do share your sentiments about the Corolla's lack of personality, or any "fun" pretenses whatsoever. The Civic is a RACE car in comparison.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Posts: 4,116
    Playing devil's advocate here, but the Corolla does have a much smoother highway ride than the Civic, with less "fidgety" steering.

    Valid point, it seems one is tuned for luxury and one is tuned for sport. I didn't care for the highway ride of the Corolla because as a passenger, I felt it bordered on wallowy.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I actually didn't; I thought it had a very nice ride for a compact car, much better than my father's Civic. If I'm behind the wheel, though, give me the Civic ANY day.
  • podredpodred Posts: 127
    Putting my remarks into context, my earlier statment "The Corolla began as a great car" I stand by. However that is keeping it in the context of what that car was designed for. As far as a Civic, which I did not reference in my earlier post, I also believe that is a great car as well. These are two cars in the same class that simply are engineered a bit differently to reflect the overall values of Toyota & Honda. Both world class car companies. To argue which is the sportiest, or has the best ride is a natural argument based on the drivers preferences. It's an argument that is held about any two competitors models no matter what class, price, model, body style, etc.

    That said, having owned both Corollas and Hondas of the same year my personal preferences aside (Honda) I remain steadfast in my claim that they are both great cars......... :shades:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I'm surprised the Civic vs. Corolla thread isn't more active, but I figure the Corolla owners are asleep in their garages after driving home. :)

    Just kidding (for the most part, :cry: ).
  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,676
    Toyotas are for people that can't handle the excitement of Hondas.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Drive a new Accord and tell me how much excitement you experienced. When I did, my answer was "not much". They are losing the Accord to the U.S. middle market.

    As for the next-gen Fit, they have already said they softened the suspension to "smooth out" that great handling, in order to achieve a better ride. I used to call this Camry-ization, but I'm going to start calling it Accord-ization. :-(

    More articles out there today on the predicament Mini finds itself in: no more cars available to ship for dealer stock for the remainder of this year.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • lemmerlemmer Posts: 2,676
    I'm not too excited about the new Accord either. Come to think of it, I am not too excited about any new cars. They all seem to get heavier and softer with each new generation.
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,511
    ...that the buyer ratings on the smart and Yaris (9.4) are higher (slightly) than the Fit (9.2)...go figure :confuse:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Statisically insignificant if you ask me.
  • texasestexases Posts: 5,511
    Yes, nothing big, but the folks that wanted the smart must have REALLY wanted it, and the objective problems most reviewers have found with it just didn't matter to them. I wonder how many more folks like that there are out there :confuse:
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    I have been dipping into the "Real World MPG" threads from time to time, and I think there are proportionally more folks having a hard time getting great gas mileage in the Fit than in the other models. Since some of them were probably downsizers looking for superlative fuel economy, it might have contributed to extra disappointment vs the other two....just a thought, as I agree with the above that it could easily be statistically insignificant.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    I used to call this Camry-ization, but I'm going to start calling it Accord-ization.

    The proper term is "Buick-ify". There's a reason Toyota is called Japan's Buick.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Well Buick now sells less total vehicles than Toyota sells Camrys and Honda sells Accords, so it seemed appropriate to update the term. :-/

    Heck, the sale of Minis, Fits, and Yarises exceeds by a goodly margin Buick's total sales, and all 3 of those models were constrained by production capacity from meeting full demand (hatchbacks only, in the case of the Yaris).

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • plektoplekto Posts: 3,733
    But Buick is a mentality more than a brand...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Toyota gets a lot of flack but let's face it - a lot of people just want a quiet, comfortable car that gets them from point A to point B. There is a reason they are the #1 car company in the world.

    Yes, our Sienna is not very exciting, and the steering has less feedback than my Nintendo Wii Remote (a lot less....), but so what? It's a freaking family hauler, not a sports car. It is a lot quieter than the Odyssey, rides smoother, my kids can watch movies while my wife sleeps, and I can drive in total peace.

    Being "boring" or "dull" or whatever you want to call it doesn't make them bad cars. They are designed to be isolated. That's intentional.

    If you don't like them, don't buy them, but you can't say it's better or worse, it's all a matter of what you want. For people that want quiet isolation, IMO Toyota > Honda.

    It's incredible how many people can't understand that.

    I'm not targeting my rant at you or anyone specifically, just at the general attitude enthusiasts have towards Toyota. If your aunt asks you to recommend a quiet car, tell her to get a Toyota, odds are she'll thank you for it.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,824
    A reporter with a national newspaper would like to speak with consumers who are moving away from large SUVs and trucks to smaller compact cars and also consumers who are taking advantage of the lower prices and purchased a large SUV or truck. If you are a new owner, please respond to ctalati@edmunds.com with your daytime contact information no later than Monday, August 4th.

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  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,687
    Wow, I'm not quite sure what I did to spur those comments. I believe we were talking about how they were updating the Fit to handle worse, but provide a smoother ride while doing so. I called it Camry-ization, simply because that is what the Camry is: quiet, smooth, a very poor handler. They would have to GUT the Fit to make it handle as poorly as a Camry, and I'm sure they won't. Camry-ization is a process, not an overnight transformation. ;-)

    Beyond that, I have driven many many MANY miles at the wheel of my friend's Sienna at this point, and I would agree that in a van what do you really want besides smooth power and ride, lots of isolation from road noise, maybe some decent emergency handling (which I'm not convinced the Sienna would have, but I haven't tried - not my van!). Sienna scores well in the areas that van buyers would prioritize, I imagine. The proof is in the pudding - it's the best-selling minivan now, right? Me, I would find another way to transport my family, unless I had more fannies than a 5-seat sedan could accomodate. Or if I was wealthy enough, I would have the Sienna just for highway trips - that van really excels in that area - little noise intrudes, the ride is sooo smooth, power is good and brakes are decent, and it tracks straight without requiring lots of steering input, despite the high sides.

    I would have 2 subcompacts for the rest of the time! ;-)

    Oh, and as regards this: For people that want quiet isolation, IMO Toyota > Honda.
    I would just say this is completely 100% true in every class of car there is where the two go head to head. Even between the Fit and the Yaris, it is evident after 1 minute of driving that the Honda is noisier, with a busier ride. The trade-off is the Yaris isn't as good a handler, and the Fit is more fun to drive.

    2013 Civic SI, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (stick)

  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Sorry, again, it wasn't targeted at you, in fact I mentioned that. Yours was just the last post on the subject.

    It's not even limited to comments I've heard in this thread. It's just this overall sentiment towards Toyota from enthusiasts, that comfort and quiet are seemingly bad things. Not so, if that is what a buyer is looking for.

    I think when "Camry" is used as an adjective, it's almost always condescending. Yet it's the best selling car in America, so Toyota is just giving people what they want.

    If a Camry could talk, it would reponse like so....

    Sure, I'm soft and isolated, and don't handle like a sports car, but 2/3rds of Americans are overweight and need the room and enjoy the comfort, and could not fit in the Recaro seats of an EVO X if their life depended on it. And my cup holders are better so there. :P

    :D
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