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Modern Muscle with Classic Names

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  • bumpybumpy Posts: 4,435
    The Camaro is being built on the same platform used for the Holden Commodore/Pontiac G8, and the V8 version of that clocks in at just over 4,000 pounds. The Camaro will be shorter, but not enough to bring it under 3,700 (and probably not under 3,800 now that we have the G8 numbers).
  • Kirstie@EdmundsKirstie@Edmunds Posts: 10,675
    Just came across this person's carspace page - really great illustrations in his album that he says you can download/use for free:
    http://www.carspace.com/bigblockrulz

    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • The top speed at redline for a '70 Hemicuda with 3.54 gears is not 112@5000 rpm. The Hemis could rev to at least 6,000 rpm. 130 mph is more like it. Car & Driver got a '66 Hemi Satellite to 130 mph with the 426-Hemi and 3.54 gears.
    In the early '70s, Motor Trend listed under the specs that the speed in gears are limited by the length of the track and do not represent top speed.

    This would also apply to the 340 'Cuda with 4.10 gears... 101 mph @ 5500 rpm, but the 340 could rev to 6000 rpm.
    And the 109 mph @ 5000 rpm for the 440-6 bbl 'Cuda meant that it should be able to reach 120 mph @ 5500 rpm.
  • xtecxtec Posts: 354
    Just shows how technology has improved .My 06 Charger SXT with the 3.5 V6 has a top speed of 135,the R/T is 150.I can't get there as fast as the Hemi,but I do have higher top speed.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,578
    I'd imagine those extra gears help out alot these days, too. Back in the day, they could gear a car for fast acceleration or a high top speed, but you always had to sacrifice one for the other. Back then you were usually stuck with a 3-speed automatic or 4-speed stick. Nowadays though, with all those extra transmission gears they can stick a really quick axle ratio in there for fast acceleration, but then throw on a really tall overdrive gear or two so that you don't redline so easily at higher speeds.

    Back in the late 60's, they were able to get 440-powered Monaco and Polara copcars up to around 147 mph, with 3.23:1 gearing. Acceleration would suffer compared to those quicker ratios, but they were still no slouch off the line. Oh, and of course, the improved aerodynamics of today's cars helps out alot, too. Aerodynamics don't mean much from 0-60, but do come into play more in the quarter mile, and especially top speed.
  • xtecxtec Posts: 354
    I know about the 440 Police cars,I use to work on them,and I know they would do over 140.We had 2.76 gears posi.I had a 68 Road Runner 383 Magnum with 3.23 and I would bury my speedometer,but it only went to 120 so I never knew my top end.All I know is it was fast.I had the Hemi transmission with had nice gears in it,plus the Hemi clutch.
  • I was born before the era that the pony cars came out and got to watch them grow into more than just cars from the three big companys. The Camero Mustang, Cuda, cougar,challenger, dart, Comet have made the Muscle car era a part of history that we all can look back on with a smile and a tear. These cars will never be duplicated and I don't think that would the big three are trying to do now, They are trying to give you youngers a part of what we old guys have had for 44 years (19641/2 to 2008) bragging right over the imports of todays, and muscle heads of tomorrow.
  • Papasam and I are late to the party. If you checked old car mags, was the six pack option available in 72? I don't think so, but I'm not certain. I think the six pack and Hemi were discontinued after 71.
    What about them Challengers?
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,578
    The 426 Hemi was dropped after 1971. However, Chrysler held onto some of its other high performance engines longer than most. You could still get a 440-6pack in a 1973 Charger. It put out 330 hp that year. That might sound tame compared to the glory days of the 60's, but remember that they rated hp differently starting in 1972, publishing net, rather than gross figures. 330 hp net would easily be 400-410 gross. To put it in perspective, the 426 Hemi, which was rated at 425 hp, was rated at 350 net.

    For 1974, you could still get a Charger with a 280 hp 440. By that time though, I think it was a hot 4-bbl, rather than a 6-pack or dual quad.

    As for the Challenger and Barracuda, they wussed out very quickly. In 1971 you could get a 440 6-pack or the Hemi. But for 1972, the top engine was a 245 hp 340 smallblock. It was actually a good performer, and would embarrass many big-blocks, but it wasn't not Hemi! For '73 they started phasing in a 360 which had about the same peak hp, but it had a narrower power band than the 340, so it didn't perform as well.

    By 1974 though, I think everybody was out of the high-performance game. Olds, Buick, and Pontiac used to offer high-output versions of their 455's, but I think they were down to around 250 hp by 1974, and by 1975 you'd be lucky to see 200-210 hp out of a big-block. The Chevy 454 put out 270 hp back in 1972, but by '74 I think it got cut severely, and even worse by '75-76.

    Chrysler did still have a 255 hp 440 in 1978, which was about as powerful as it got by that time. The only catch is, they were only offered in the midsize Monaco/Coronet police cars! They were pretty quick, too...fast enough that they'd even give most modern police cars a run for their money.
  • I guest I should ask just how many of you were actually driving does the first crisis, I was bron in 1952 and was just starting love the muscle car era when this crisis came along. I have heard all type of hear say crap about how and why it started with most of it being from some grand pop or grand mom that didn't even own a muscle car or even knew what they were. And yes the insurance was going up but that was nothing, new the car industry always lied about horse power in cars just to keep the insurance down and the insurance companies were just starting to change with the times. The mustang II was a nescessary car for the times along with nova,acclaim and a number of other car that were needed. If we are to talk these types of things aleast get all the facts.
  • Not just gas and insurance prices, but don't forget (excuse me while I channel my inner "Gore"), emission equipment choked the heck outta engines too. Unfortunately it was a necessary evil. I've lived in So. Cal all my life and I remember my eyes would burn :cry: from the smoggy air back then. Believe it or not, air quality here is much better than it was in the early 70's.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,578
    And yes the insurance was going up but that was nothing, new the car industry always lied about horse power in cars just to keep the insurance down and the insurance companies were just starting to change with the times.

    I don't think high insurance rates played much of a part until the 1970's. If anything, most car companies were over-stating their hp in the 60's, rather than under-stating it. Horsepower is what sold cars in those days. Chrysler's 340 was one of the few under-rated engines...probably because if they listed its true horsepower, then people would question whether they really needed some of the bigger engines. It was rated around 270-275 hp with the 4-bbl. When the rating system went to net hp, it still had 245 hp, or about 89-90% of its gross rating. Many engines were lucky if their net rating was 70% of its gross rating, although to be fair, some engines had their compression cut at the same time, so there was a real loss in addition to the "paper" loss.
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