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Midsize Pickup Comparo

thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
edited March 15 in Honda
The Ridgeline has been found to be competitive with the four-door models of most midsize trucks from Nissan, Toyota, Dodge, and Chevrolet. I thought a proper comparison was in order for this field of trucks.
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Comments

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    If you can assist me in adding the other two pickups to the list I would appreciate it. This comparison is for the four-door models of the midsize pickup market.
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Done, and I added the Colorado twin as well.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Thank you, host.

    To get started, who feels that the Ridgeline is overpriced for what it delivers?

    Some say that the Honda pickup is too expensive to compete in the midsize pickup market, but the same can be said for the other Japanese makes in this comparison (all can be optioned to $30,000 or more, yet don't offer the brawny V-8 power (with exception of Dodge) that the full-size trucks do. A case can be made for the full size trucks (with rebates, a Silverado can often be had with 4wd and a V-8 for $25,000 if not less.

    Let the fun begin.

    thegrad
  • To say that all trucks can be optioned to $30k or more is not a good argument. To me you have to compare the standard features vs. the standard pricing.

    I have a 2005 Frontier SE 4x4 Crew Cab with only power package as an option, and I was at $24k. How do the other models match up to this?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I just read on the Ridgeline board of someone paying under 25k for a Ridgeline RT. This comes with standard power accessories (pw, pl, CD, air, cruise ctrl). It also includes neat features like the dual action tailgate, in-bed trunk, and LOADS of safety stuff standard (Vehicle Stability Control (optional on most other makes), Electronic Brake-Force Distribution, 4-channel ABS, 8 (or 6, I can't remember) airbags, keyless entry, and other items not standard on many trucks.

    I was just making the point about options because that is how Car and Driver (or was it MT?) tested them. Honda was actually not the most pricey when basically equipped comparably. The ranking from first to last went as such

    Honda Ridgeline (On basis of ingenious idea of trunk, lots of room, great handling)
    Nissan Frontier (Only entry with leather, with great steering)
    Toyota Tacoma (Had longest bed but iffy handling)
    Dodge Dakota (Needed more power despite most cylinders, also lacked ABS with its $32k price)
    Chevrolet Colorado (Significantly under-powered with CHEAP interior)
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Amen. You do need to look at features. Otherwise pricing comparisons can be very tricky.

    When equipped with similar hardware, the Ridgeline costs about as much as a similar Tacoma or Frontier. The thing that sets the Ridgeline apart is that the base model is still fairly well equipped. There is no stripped, 2wd model of the Honda. So perception suggests that it is expensive even though the reality is not so bad.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Amen. You do need to look at features. Otherwise pricing comparisons can be very tricky.

    When equipped with similar hardware, the Ridgeline costs about as much as a similar Tacoma or Frontier. The thing that sets the Ridgeline apart is that the base model is still fairly well equipped. There is no stripped, 2wd model of the Honda. So perception suggests that it is expensive even though the reality is not so bad.


    Yep; the base model of the Ridgeline is VERY well-equipped.
  • toykicktoykick Posts: 104
    FOR THOSE DIE HARD TRUCK FANS WHO SAID THEY WOULD COMMIT SUICIDE IF VTEC MADE IT INTO A TRUCK...WELL. NOW YOU CAN KILL YOURSELVES...
  • gearhead1gearhead1 Posts: 408
    WELL. NOW YOU CAN KILL YOURSELVES...

    That would be sweet. :)
  • I am not sure what the point of this post is, but I believe both the Nissan and Toyota 6-cyl engines have a form of variable intake. The ridgeline's engine is no more powerful than the other trucks.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I noticed in a recent test of a Pontiac G6, that it had variable lift timing, even though it is still a pushrod engine. A "VTec/Vvti - like system may not be that far away for MANY automakers. After all, it is tuned to bring torque numbers up down low, and helps raise peak horsepower up high. I remember driving a 1994 Dodge Ram 5.2 V-8 (220 hp, I think). It had plenty of get up off the line, but punch it at 60 mph, and it had nothing for the driver when compared to a Ridgeline. Add to that it got 11 mpg when driving it to work, and I'd say that VTec is a good thing.
  • All these trucks were redone or released in the past 2 years, so you'd think a competive field... This is simple. Toyota, Honda, and Nissan did their homework before releasing thier trucks. Each has design features to meet what different truck buyers want. They were significantly improved over the previous model (except Honda as its new). Dodge just made small changes. The Colorado is a prime example of what is wrong with US car manufacurers. From a clean sheet, GM designers managed to make another S-10, with little upgrade to what they had before.

    I have driven them all. The Dakota was ok. The Frontier was nice, the Ridgeline was as well, but not the vehicle for me. I drove 2 Colorados. Didn't compare to the others, at all. I loved the Tacoma, so thats what I bought. Very happy with my decision.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Except for the fact that you can get them dirt cheap (and they look nice, in a GMish way), I can't think of a good reason to go with the Colorado/Canyon. They had to cut costs to bring this to market. I can accept that. But the result is a truly compromised vehicle. I think they might've been better off cancelling the S10, saving their pennies, and trying again in a few years.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I like the Tacoma as well, but with a couple of issues I find fault with...It drink premium gasoline (a problem for me, since oil prices are at $68.35 the instant I write this (CNBC television is on, haha). That makes its economy kinda iffy IMO. The other issue was the fact that I couldn't see the stereo readout with my polarized sunglasses on! I know this sounds like a tiny issue, but I only wear polarized, so over time, this can get VERY annoying! Congratulations on your purchase, demoncleaner.
  • pb2themaxpb2themax Posts: 471
    The new Tacomas don't have to have premium gas. I have tried all grades in my V6 4.0 liter. No difference in power, MPG, or engine noise. 10k miles and no problems. Very happy with my purchase.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Toyota says themselves that premium is reccommended, but regular can be run with "reduced performance". I imagine the engineers know what they're talking about.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,699
    If I'm not mistaken, the Xterra and Frontier are tuned to run on "regular," while the Pathfinder (with 5 more hp) is tuned to run on "premium."

    Frankly, I think all these vehicles (Toyotas too) should be tuned to run on "regular." I believe the Ridgeline and Pilot are tuned to run on "regular." Not sure about the MDX?

    Bob
  • bill55bill55 Posts: 25
    The idea of the VVTI engine is also for improved emmisions.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Right, i'm assuming it is similar to Honda's VTEC, in that it runs with more restricted breathing at lower throttle-input/rpms to boost economy. Thank you for pointing out this important virtue of Variable Valve Timing.
  • asaasa Posts: 359
    I want a 4x2 Crew with a manual tranny and unless I'm mistaken, I think Nissan's Frontier is the only manufacturer that offers this combination. Colorado/Canyon offered it in '04 and '05, but it's been dropped in '06. Tacoma demands a 4x4 to get a stick. Dakota/Raider doesn't offer it I don't think (and these are too long for my garage anyway).
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I think you are right. I know some Tacomas can be had with a 6-speed manual. Are these just the X-Runner models?
  • asaasa Posts: 359
    You're correct -- 4x2 6-Speed Tacos are not Crew Cabs.
  • toykicktoykick Posts: 104
    for some reason the automatic tacomas are quicker and more fuel efficient then the stick..

    access cab 4x2 comes with the 6spd, so does the 4x4 and 4x4 DC tacoma..

    and x-runner...

    as for options... i wonder why nissan doesnt build a frontier that does 0-60 in under 7 seconds and 14 second 1/4miles... and does over .90Gs on lateral skid pad... wait isnt that more then the 350z ? :P
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    i wonder why nissan doesnt build a frontier that does 0-60 in under 7 seconds and 14 second 1/4miles... and does over .90Gs on lateral skid pad... wait isnt that more then the 350z ?

    That IS more Gs than the 350Z, you are right. My guess would have to be that the market for "high-performance" trucks is a small niche compared to what most buyers want out of a midsizer. $25,000 for a manual transmission, 2-wheel drive truck that drinks premium gas (to get advertised perfromance levels; you can use regular, which will reduce performance marginally). When you can get a Ridgeline RT or Tacoma Double Cab for about the same money. Most people looking for performance will shop Mustangs, and Nissan 350Z.

    What I'm wondering, is when will Toyota get a "fun" car again, now that they've killed off that last sporty car they had (Celica)? They are letting Nissan (350z) and Honda (S2000) have all the fun!
  • toykicktoykick Posts: 104
    A X-runner cost 21-23k around here, a 350z cost 28+k, type s RSX cost 25k+ etc...

    compression ratios:

    tacoma v6 - 11.0:1

    RSX type s - 11.0:1

    350z - 10.3

    Ridgeline - 10.0:1

    frontier - 9.7:1

    lol looks like all need premium :surprise:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    compression ratios:

    tacoma v6 - 11.0:1

    RSX type s - 11.0:1

    350z - 10.3

    Ridgeline - 10.0:1

    frontier - 9.7:1

    lol looks like all need premium


    The Ridgeline makes all 247 horsepower on regular. I'm not sure why you think it needs premium. Toyota specifically reccomends premium for "optimum performance". Honda reccommends "regular unleaded". For 22 cents more per gallon, the Honda makes 8 more horsepower with smaller displacement.

    The RSX...why is it here? It also runs on premium, but delivers good economy to offset to price difference.

    The Frontier beats 'em all with the most power on regular gas, but gets 1-2 mpg less than Honda/Toyota.

    So, the irrelevant cars drink premium (350Z, RSX-S), as does the Toyota V-6. The other four trucks here all get the full power out of good 'ole regular unleaded.

    This is all info per Nissan's compare feature:

    *Ridgeline - Regular (247hp/252lb-ft)
    *Tacoma - Premium (236hp/266lb-ft)
    Frontier - Regular (265hp/284lb-ft)
    Dodge - Regular (230hp/290lb-ft)
    (250hp/310lb-ft for H.O. version)
    GM - Regular (220hp/225lb-ft)

    *Honda and Toyota have already adjusted their hp ratings for the new SAE test procedures. The others may not have been tested under the new restrictions, which tend to reduce output numbers.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The Honda makes 11 more horsepower, not 8, as I said incorrectly.
  • toykicktoykick Posts: 104
    lol i like how you added a few numbers to the ridgelines torque... Hondas website has it at 245... typical for honda engines... more hp then torque... Thats why VTEC doesnt belong in a truck... Trucks need torque, and also need to peak low to haul crap around easily... Hondas Ridgeline isnt like a hemi or others which peak 90% of it torque under 2k rpm... The Ridgelines Vtec needs to rev a lot more to get a comparable load moving... several tests have been done, towing a comparable weight of 5k and the ridgeline takes 6+ seconds more to reach 60 then the tacoma... Frontier is almost 5 seconds slower... AWD doesnt really help it... i'm not saying people should go race their mid-size trucks with a 5k trailer behind them but i can assure you a Tacoma is going to pull any comparable weight up a hill better then a frontier or ridgeline... :P
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    I assure you that without VTEC, both figures would be much lower than they are now.

    As far as the incorrect figures, I knew that the Ridgeline's horsepower had dropped to 247 from 255. I didn't know the torque figures currently. Nissan's site is outdated, b/c it showed the RL with 255/252. Sorry for this misquote. thats why i pointed out where i got my figures.

    My Accord actually has more torque than horsepower, so, I'm not sure where you get that idea. Honda could do like GM and make BOTH numbers low, if you prefer. ;)

    You are right, the Ridgeline isn't like the Hemi. If it claims to match its abilities with an engine 1.5 times it's size in an oviously different market, I'll be the first to refute it.
  • toykicktoykick Posts: 104
    your accord has more torque then hp? really? see i dont do VTEC #s... if your torque peaks before your hp it doesnt mean you have more torque then hp

    the 06 v6 accord has 244HP @ 6244 rpm and 211ft.lb of torque at 5000 rpm...

    So i guess you have more torque then hp before 6k rpm right ? ;)
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