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Midsize Pickup Comparo

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Comments

  • driver56driver56 Posts: 408
    Hardly a fact at all graduate. Frontiers are well known for their off-road prowess, and all around performance. And beauty, as well as ugly, is always in the eye of the beholder. I like both trucks, for different reasons, but they both could use some improvements.
  • jfritschjfritsch Posts: 958
    Someone in a previous message said that Colorado's are sold for substantially less than their Nissan or Toyota counterparts. I just test drove one and the best the dealer could do was $200 OVER a comparable crew cab Nissan Frontier. Edmunds site seems to indicate the prices are comparable also.

    I thought I could save some money by going with the Chevy, but without at least $3000 off, I would need my head examined. Chevys got the styling advantage (they always did KA with the sheet metal), and I like the wide choice of colors and styles. But it takes but a short comparison test drive and interior examination until one is deciding Nissan or Toyota.

    One can argue Nissan or Toyota all day, but the Chevy is in a dissapointing 3rd class. One is getting at least 40% more truck with the import makes, its almost like a toy in comparison.

    Although around here (Northern Kentucky and Southern Ohio) the Colorado outnumbers the 05- Nissans by about 10 or 15 to 1 from what I see on the road.(Ive been looking off and on for about 4 months) Must be a bunch of downsizing chevy full size fanatics around here (the Silveradoes are competitive with all comers) who never even considered the competition.

    From the specs Chevy even figured out how a smaller truck can have an even wider turning circle than the already wide Frontier's.

    A Colorado would be considered if it had a considerable price advantage (one that I have not seen). Several dealers have stocks of the crew 4 and 2wd 4cyl models (the 5cyl is a $1000 option don't you know) which is just silly.

    Anyone know if the 2 wheel abls (active brake limited slip) option on Frontier is worth the $300 on a 2wd models?

    -jjf
  • wooddorkerwooddorker Posts: 300
    "Someone in a previous message said that Colorado's are sold for substantially less than their Nissan or Toyota counterparts."

    That was me, and I was considering GM's constant stream of incentives. I'm also in an area where Toyota and Nissan products sell well. We even see a decent number of Ridgelines on the local roads.

    Has GM finally stopped the silly marketing gimmicks?
  • critter1critter1 Posts: 104
    There are scads of them still on the road. 6 of 1 half dozen of another. For long lasting! :D

    wooddorker the Chevy looks good But that 5 cylinder don't cut it for power and mileage isn't that much better. They should put a 4.3 v6 and beefed it up a little. I drove one after the Tacoma & Frontier ,big difference. But its your
    choice!

    Fish'in Critter :)
  • wooddorkerwooddorker Posts: 300
    "wooddorker the Chevy looks good But that 5 cylinder don't cut it for power and mileage isn't that much better."

    I love my Tacoma... :D
  • motorhead1motorhead1 Posts: 111
    I have been looking at this page about the differences of the mid-size trucks. The first thing I have to say is no the Colorado is not in the same class or the toyo or the nissan. It is what it is but if you are a Chevy person like me you want to stay with a brand you like. I have had my 2004 ext cab 4x4 I5 auto trans for about 2 years with no major problems. The truck does just what it has promised it would do and that is to have a 4x4 with good gas milage and very dependable. Either be happy with it or buy something else.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Would the Thai version of Ranger be competitive in this class?
    Ranger is absent from this comparison. New model Ranger was introduced in 2006 for markets outside North America.
    Thai Ranger

    I believe that Ford would be well served to introduce the Thai built model in the US. Especially with the diesel.
    The Twin Cities Ranger plant is scheduled to close and Ford has not stated if the Ranger will be built off the Explorer chasis or if a new chasis will be designed and built in to be decided plant.

    For what it is worth, IMO the photography of the Thai built Ranger is impressive, especially compared to the current USA version.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,699
    Not so sure about the Thai Ranger, as it means little to folks here. I would include our Sport Trac, however.

    Bob
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Host, would you include the Ford Sport-Trac in this discussion for me please? I created this thread before the new, more competitve model was released. I appreciate your help if you can do so...

    Thanks,

    Thegrad
  • zdmazdma Posts: 6
    I agree, I've never seen trucks even compact size got averagely 26.4 mpg. Especially the Frontier's engine is more powerful, also, curb weight's bigger than Tacoma. If nothing's wrong, the vehicle's mpg is always related to engine's power and curb weight. Have you heard of 20 mpg Escalade or Navigator? So just precisely measure the mpg like sugarman1 said, I think 22 might be the most. :D
  • critter1critter1 Posts: 104
    Fact! I know I shopped hard on them and Frontier. Rather by buying Frontier I made mistake time will tell. 1500 miles as of this post,so far a OK! Will post Hiway miles after NC trip 450 one way.

    Fish'in Critter! ;)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Keep in mind that different areas of the country deal differently on different cars. Some people in the northwest have said that "Honda doesn't deal, period," which is entirely untrue. I also find that Toyota will deal, although maybe not like the Nissan dealers in your area. How else do I see Tacoma commercials from local dealers with xxx cash back and such? Check out the prices-paid forum for Tacoma - many people are paying invoice price or lower...WELL off the sticker price.

    They do deal, they just didn't deal very well with you in your area.
  • wooddorkerwooddorker Posts: 300
    Keep in mind that dealerships are independent businesses.

    When I bought my current truck, two local dealerships were not dealing, one was a bunch of stereotypical blood-sucking vultures, and the one where I purchased was terrific. My truck got swapped out of the distribution chain from one of the non-dealers. One of the non-dealer's name was on my window sticker!

    I've seen similar dealer differences with every new vehicle I've purchased, Nissan, Toyota, Jeep, Mazda, Ford, and Subaru...

    Except for incentives, like factory rebates and special manufacturer financing, brands don't deal at all, dealerships do. :D

    One more point. My father knows several dealership owners. All dealers pay the same wholesale price for cars. Don't believe advertising that says otherwise.
  • tacoman05tacoman05 Posts: 37
    When I started looking at Tacomas last year before purchasing one, I started out at the Toyota dealership right down the road from me. Couldn't get the deal I wanted so I moved on to the next closest dealership, which was even worse than the first one!

    Since I REALLY wanted a Tacoma, I went to the third closest dealership to me and ended up with the best car buying experience I have ever had.

    Once you've made up your mind what you want, just be patient and keep trying. Every dealership is different, look around til you find the one that you're happy with.
  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576
    You can get the dealer invoice price from Kelly Blue Book.

    You will know exactly what they have in the vehicle.

    Do your shopping/dealing the last day/days of the month.

    Go late in the day and eat before you go.

    Their best tools are to wear you down and know the prices that you don't. The above will help even the odds a bunch.

    My understanding is that most of the Asian car dealers can't order a car just for the sake of ordering. They can only replace the cars they sold that month. Other than that it is dealer transfers. Therefore at the end of the month they want to get cars off the lot so it can be replaced with color and options they want.

    If they sell a certain percentage of their inventory they may be allowed to receive extra cars.

    Also the sales people get incentives when they sell over 10-12 units a month. Sales managers may also get extra incentives for the total units out the door.

    Know your numbers for your trade, and the car you want, and be prepared to wear them down. You can even get 25-50% off extended warranties. Never pay for paint protection, which is a wash on product, or interior protection which is not much other than Scotch Guard! They have maybe $10 in those items and charge you hundreds. :blush:

    Kip
  • KCRamKCRam Mt. Arlington NJPosts: 3,516
    Yup :)

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • 2005lekc2005lekc Posts: 145
    sugarman1 and zdma,

    This is in response to your responses to my prior fuel mileage post. I do owe an apology as I made a couple of mistakes in my post.

    I stated that I got 25.6 at 50 mph and 26.4 at 45 mph. When I looked back at my pictures it shows that it was 25.9 at 55 mph and 26.3 at 30 mph. My memory is not always spot on and I apologize for that.

    I used the computer on the trip and that is the figures I reported on. To check the accuracy of the computer I did a manual check this week when I fueled. I went 213.2 miles and filled the tank with 10.37 gallons.

    My truck computer showed that I got 19.9 miles per gallon on the 213.2 miles which was about 15% highway and 85%town driving.

    When I did the manual calculations I came up with 20.559305 mpg. On this tank I got .659305
    more miles per gallon than the computer showed.
    I shall continue to check it as there is proba-
    bly some variance in the computer reading from
    one fill up to the next.

    It probably depends mostly on how much fuel
    you add at a time as when I first reset the mpg computer it varies greatly until I get a few miles on it.

    The first two figures of 21.3 mpg at 75 and 23.1 mpg at 70 were both checked when adding
    about 3/4ths of a tank at between 300 and 400 miles of driving.

    The higher figures were done while actually driving and taking the reading from the comput-
    er. As zdma said this figure will fluctuate as it is an average and will change constantly as the driving conditions change.

    The 25.9 was taken during a 60+ mile stretch and it fluctuated a few tenths of a mpg during this time. The 26.3 was taken during a shorter 5 mile stretch where the speed limit was 45 mph, hence my miscalculation in the
    prior post. When I fill my tank I usually go until it shuts off and then fill to the nearest 25 cents. It generally is never more than 10 to 15 cents so there could be a slight error in the calculations, but not very much.

    I usually do not check it manually because unlike my younger days I am not in a rally nor a SunRay DX economy run where you have to calculate to the nearest 100th of a mile/gallon.

    I have an LE KC 4X2 with the stock tires and wheels, a Flo-Pro true dual exhaust system with
    2 1/4" tailpipes, and a Fold-A-Cover tonneau. I am going to install my Volant CAI soon, but it was not installed on this trip.

    I don't know if either of you has ever driven an LE 4X2 but it appears to get the best mileage of any of the Frontiers. When I let up on the accelerator there is no drag from the drive train. It is like you put it in neutral.

    I think that is probably why the LE's get better gasoline mileage than the Nismos and the other 4X4's. The different models also have different rear end codes so I am sure
    there are some ratio differences involved too.

    I am 68 1/2 years old so I drive like the little old man that I am. I am light on the throttle, I look ahead to sync my driving with the lights, and I avoid situations that call for sudden stops. Well, once in a while I get into a trap on the last situation.

    I also walk a lot as I have my bank, tag agent,
    grocery store, post office drop, and cleaners all within walking distance. That kills a lot of the high fuel consumption driving out. That can do wonders for your average.

    I also plan all of my trips and put them in the shortest distance sequence. I drove a delivery truck for a few years and also ran SCCA rallies for several years so I got plenty of experience planning routes.

    Since I am retired I plan almost all of my driving outside of the rush hour windows. I'll admit that because of my circumstances I
    probably get better fuel mileage than most people. When I was working I did not have the option of picking my times to drive.

    I am stating what my truck does in this post.
    I do not care if others get better mileage than I do. This is not a contest for me to out do anyone. You are free to disbelieve me if that is your choice. I know what my truck will do and it does not hurt my feelings if you think I am trying to lie to you.

    It is not a matter of which truck is better to me. As I have stated many times I like both
    Toyota and Nissan. I own one of each. by the way, my wife's Solara gets better fuel mileage than my truck so I guess Toyota wins this one.

    The best to you both.

    OkieScot
  • 2005lekc2005lekc Posts: 145
    I forgot to give the photo site in the above post. You can view the truck computer mpg feature at: www.picturetrail.com/okiescot. Click on the truck album and scroll down a few pictures and there they are.

    This is proof positive that my memory is none too good.

    OkieScot
  • midnightsunmidnightsun Posts: 92
    "why mess around with a plastic Nismo when you can get a Tacoma beauty"

    Quite a comment, given that '05 and newer Tacomas have plastic inner beds. Not necessarily a bad thing (though I sure don't want one), but if you're going to bash plastic in the first place, perhaps a little reminder for you?
  • midnightsunmidnightsun Posts: 92
    That may be a function of geography and topography. Around here (Colorado, the state that is), the Colorados do cost quite a bit less. I think it has to do with lower demand in general for 4-cyl and 5-cyl trucks. Not enough grunt for the mountains, for most people's tastes.

    Of course, tastes may change as gas prices keep rising. Fullsizers downsizing to midsize is a good thing, IMO, as long as the midsize meets their hauling and towing needs.

    The Tacoma and Frontier 4cyls...hmmm I don't think I've even *seen* one. But I know someone who test-drove a 2005 4cyl Tacoma and pronounced it as sluggish. And I've seen ads for 4cyl Tacomas and Frontiers with prices around $14K to $15K for 2WD.
    Same configs of Colorados are shown as about $12K.

    Now for the good side: someone I know bought a 4cyl Colorado and gets 30 mpg highway, IF he keeps speeds under 60 mph. Drops to 22 mpg with kayaks on the roof and driving 75 mph. My first truck was a 1986 Mazda B2000 that got 32 to 33 mpg back east; it dropped to 29 to 30 when I moved to Colorado. It could climb, all right, but very slowly. 80 hp and 110 ft-lbs of torque!

    Trade-offs.
  • midnightsunmidnightsun Posts: 92
    Oh, now Toyota and Nissan are doing the silly marketing gimmicks, too. Newspaper ads are filled with it. Some look like they take off thousands from MSRP, but if you read the fine print, you find some statement like "$3000 customer cash" being deducted from MSRP! That's what used to be called a down payment. It certainly does not lower the selling price. Sheesh.

    And I thought the lease-payment ads were bad enough already.
  • zdmazdma Posts: 6
    Yup 2005lekc, mine is 05 Tacoma Prerunner double cab short bed, and has averagely 17 city, 19 highway mpg. I think it’s acceptable. We all know that every truck’s engine is slightly different, everybody’s driving style is different, and also, every truck has different configurations (that means, single or regular cab can be much more economical than double or crew cab), that’s why everyone’s mpg is different. So whatever the mpg is, I still can be sure that you got one of the best trucks. Wish you can enjoy it very much. Best Luck! :)
  • zdmazdma Posts: 6
    Yep 2005lekc, everything makes sense now. 'Cause you got a king cab not crew cab, the curb weight is lighter than that of crew cab; and the truck's been modified esp. on exhaust system, the bigger/better exhaust system is gonna lead to a complete fuel combustion, all of these gave your Frontier good mpg. So the truck is already out of the definition of standard manufactured vehicle. Thanks for your explanation, BTW, it’s really a nice truck! :lemon:
  • 2005lekc2005lekc Posts: 145
    zdma,

    Thank you for the compliment and I wish you good luck with your truck as well. Like I said I looked at the Tacoma, but they did not want to offer much for my 2000 Nissan. You almost always can deal better with a dealer who
    sells the same brand you are trading in.

    I have added a few things that probably improve my mileage, but I think the single biggest factor is the style of driving I do.
    Since I am retired I almost never drive during the rush hour.

    I also stay out in the suburbs a lot more than I used to. I can get to 2 Interstate roads in
    6 traffic lights and most of them are timed to
    stay green longer on the streets I travel than the cross streets.

    As I have said there is not enough difference in the mileage of the Tacoma/Frontier that it would keep me from buying either one.

    OkieScot
  • billingsleybillingsley Posts: 69
    Thank you! It's true. It's physics. Without a tonneau cover, the air will slam into the tailgate acutally making a drag against the vehicle. With the cover, the air flows over the vehicle and you save a minute amount of fuel, but you do save.
    The same goes for closing the windows at highway speeds. With the windows shut, the air flows over the vehicle instead of coming into the car, and hitting the inside and creating a small drag.

    :D
  • ustazzafustazzaf Posts: 311
    Myth Busters on the Discovery Channel (I think the network is correct) proved that a closed tailgate will get better mileage than an open one. May also be the same for a cover. Would like to see them test covers.
  • 2005lekc2005lekc Posts: 145
    Someone posted an article on this quite some time back. The worst was tailgate down or removed, then a flat bed cover and the best was a bed cap that was about roof high at the front and then tapered down as it went back to the rear..

    I can't even remember which forum it was on, but I am, thinking it was Club Frontier.

    OkieScot
  • critter1critter1 Posts: 104
    :blush: Aberdeen MD to New Bern NC down & back averaged between 21-23 mpg. One reading said 23.7. I clocked between 70-79 m/h.
    going Interstate 95. Around Balto/Wash. slow & congested.
    The 4 liter ran great plenty of power,ride was was confortable,almost too relaxing with cruise on. I wonder how much difference cover made on mpg? I could always rollup cover next trip to see how much it is, 440 miles one way. Rode on beach surf fishing the air downed BFG's did very well spreading the weight.Next trip is July to NC,
    will inform about truck performance.

    Critter in the Surf Fish'in

    PS caught mess of Bluefish in surf and 3 keeper Flounder! :)
  • driver56driver56 Posts: 408
    That is one nice looking truck! I took out a 4x2 Crew Cab last time and was again impressed. I am quite taken by what Nissan has done with their Frontier line.
    Enjoy.
  • bownheadbownhead Posts: 3
    I too have been looking for a smaller truck. I've had an F150 for the last 7 years had 150,000 miles on it, but the gas to run it has been getting expensive! I drove the Tacoma, and the frontier, and the Frontier definitly was a much better ride, quieter, and smoother. Just a more sophisticated vehicle IMHO.
    I do not like buying new cars, and finally found a used Frontier. Its an '05 LE, 4X4, CC, granite colored, with rockford fosgate stereo, sunroof, and leather. Had 17K miles on it. I paid 23,800 for the truck, but what sealed the deal was the 6K they were willing to give me for a 7 year old 4X2 F150 with 150k on it! I was more than willing to let someone else put the 17K miles on the frontier for the 4-5K in depreciation, so thanks to whomever ordered this new, its a great truck!
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