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Midsize Pickup Comparo

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Comments

  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    I still fail to see a problem.

    OkieScot


    Unfortunately :( , the vast majority of the population does not have the specific background that makes the problem immediately apparent.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Anybody have any opinion on the revised engines going into the Colorado/Canyon (2.9L I-4, 3.7L I-5)?

    I didn't mean to start a debate on magazines.
  • jfritschjfritsch Posts: 958
    It is a mediocre truck paired with a poor (I4) or mediocre (i5) engine. I had a friend who had an offer of 21600 on a ridgeline 4wd RT. I told him he would be insane to buy a Colorado at a higher price.

    A test drive vs Tacoma, Frontier or RL will show that quickly. The fact that they are competitively priced makes a bad situation worse. Reviews in Consumer reports, Edmunds, etc will tend to reinforce this. I agree with the previous post that it fails to keep up with the Silverado in quality or sturdiness. That said its probably outselling each of the others by 2-5:1. Its getting by on its good looks. (I like the exterior styling the best of them all.. Once again GMs sheet metal comes to the rescue)

    I haven't driven the I4 model but after driving the I5 I fear it.

    --jjf

    Anybody have any opinion on the revised engines going into the Colorado/Canyon (2.9L I-4, 3.7L I-5)?
  • Good catch [thegraduate] with gas requirements for the Frontier.
    Of all these trucks posted I can't decide which is the 'least a truck' the Honda Ridgeline or the GMC Colorado/Canyon..... :D
  • I found it interesting almost humorous that when GM came out their '07 full size trucks that they kept the 4.3 rather than use the much tooted I5. GM said the I5 was a much better engine than the 4.3......so they though... :confuse:
    I use to get 18-19 city and 23mpg highway(65-70mph)with my '95 GMC Sonoma 4x4 5sp. I fail to see that the I5 betters this.
    And now to add insult to injury GM no longer offers the 5sp with the I5...... :confuse: :sick:
  • The I5 is NOT a truck engine just like the VTEC is not a truck engine. Truck engines should not be high reving to get high torque to the wheels 'if' you want a truck for what a truck was initially designed and built for.
    But if you read about what what one of the popular magazines said why they choose it as 'Truck of the Year' was that Honda wanted to redefine what a truck is. That's ok if this is what you want.
    I got grief from the guys in my hood for buying my Nissan Frontier. They called it a 'grocery getter'. I replied with two statements. The first was, 'I'll drive/buy what ever you want me to, just make the payments...... :D
    And now that gas has been hitting the $3/gal when do you want me to drive you to take you to buy your groceries because your 'full size' GMC is getting too expensive to drive.... :D :surprise:
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The I5 is NOT a truck engine just like the VTEC is not a truck engine.

    I'll agree that the VTEC Ridgeline isn't a truck engine; it (the original 3.5)was designed for the Acura RL sedan back in the 90s, and made its bigger debut in the 1999 Odyssey, where it produced 210 hp and 229 lb-ft of torque.

    The GM 3.5L I-5 and 2.8L I-4 were supposedly the 4.2L I-6 from the Trailblazer/Envoy twins, with a cylinder lopped off.

    I think a couple of people missed it when I mentioned the increased engine size of the Canyon/Colorado.

    Old figures were 2.8L I-4 w/175hp, 185 lb-ft@ 2800RPM, 3.5L I-5 w/220hp @5600RPM, 225 lb-ft @2800 RPM.

    From the GM site:

    Engine: Vortec 2.9L DOHC I-4 engine with 185 hp and 190 lb.-ft. of torque (Standard on 1WT, LS, Regular and Extended Cab 1LT and 2WD Crew Cab 1LT models)
    The Vortec 2.9L DOHC four-cylinder engine delivers 185 hp at 5600 rpm and 190 lb.-ft. of torque at 2800 rpm.

    Engine: Vortec 3.7L DOHC I-5 with 242 hp and 242 lb.-ft. of torque (Standard on 2LT and 3LT models; optional on 1WT and 1LT models)
    The Vortec 3.7L DOHC I-5 engine delivers 242 hp at 5600 rpm and 242 lb.-ft. of torque at 4600 rpm.


    From the Honda site, you can see that the power peaks are similar on the larger engine GM and the Honda:

    Horsepower @ rpm (SAE net, Rev 8/04) 247 @ 5750

    Torque (lb.-ft. @ rpm) 245 @ 4500


    I could not find EPA numbers on the revised GM engines, though I did try.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Minor correction.

    "I'll agree that the VTEC Ridgeline isn't a truck engine; it (the original 3.5)was designed for the Acura RL sedan back in the 90s, and made its bigger debut in the 1999 Odyssey, where it produced 210 hp and 229 lb-ft of torque."

    The original 3.5L engine used by the Acura 3.5RL in the 1990's is not the same J35 engine used in the Ody, Pilot, Ridgeline, MDX, and the new RL. That first 3.5L unit is based on a very old racing engine.

    The J35 used first in the Ody is an enlarged version of the 3.0L and 3.2L engines used in the Accord and Acura TL.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Thanks for the correction... I should've figured that out, considering how long the 3.5 was in use before it came to the Odyssey. Oh well. :)

    Point still stands, I guess; the Ridgeline engine is a van/crossover engine; moreso than a true "truck" engine. It's still more than sufficient at hauling and accelerating.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "Point still stands, I guess; the Ridgeline engine is a van/crossover engine; moreso than a true "truck" engine. It's still more than sufficient at hauling and accelerating."

    That makes the whole truck vs non-truck distinction a little pointless, don't you think?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Yep. We got past it with SUVs:Crossovers (like Pacifica, Car-Based Utes (RAV4 and Murano), why can't we with pickups?
  • Uuuh, the highly regarded VQ40 in the Frontier is basically a stroked Maxima/Altima engine (VQ35).
    I guess that makes the Frontier not a truck.
    :-)
    I have a frontier, by the way. The engine is dandy.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The Sport-Trac uses a 4.6L 292hp based on that engine in the Mustang, I believe... looks like I just eliminated another truck.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    There are several midsize trucks to choose from, Frontier and Taccoma are the best.

    MarketWatch Tacoma and Frontier
  • Looks like Market Watch likes Tacoma more than Fronty as well.
  • I wonder if it's because they are so afraid to choose a something other than the Tacoma for fear of getting ripped by the majority and or their boss that they are just playing a 'safe choice' :)
  • I see the so called finishing of the Frontier every bit as good as the Tacoma. I like both trucks, though I'd go with the Frontier in a pinch.
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Colorado improved for 2007

    It (Colorado) still lags behind what is probably the best small truck, the Nissan Frontier, but not as far back as before.

    Frontier and Tacoma are still the best.
  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576
    The Sport-Trac uses a 4.6L 292hp based on that engine in the Mustang, I believe... looks like I just eliminated another truck.

    I believe you did! :)

    If we went a bit farther and eliminated everything that looks like a truck but uses or used a car engine, there would be very few trucks left.

    Let's see now. The ever popular Ford full size Pickup with the 300 Cubic Inch inline 6 would be a truck, but the ones with the small block V8 would not actually be a truck. :confuse:

    Same with the rest that share(ed) car engines with truck models, pretty much across the board. :sick:
  • jfritschjfritsch Posts: 958
    The Colorado is abysmal in quality and finish. However several mags rated it better in 4wd performance than the Toyota and Frontier. I'm going to by a Ridgeline like my brother.

    The quality is better than the Frontier, equal to the Toyota, blows away the Colorado, and has a ride like no other. Despite being bigger and wider the turning radius is smaller than both the Fronty and Colorado.

    Was torn between the Frontier, and then the Tacoma, but after 2 weeks with the RL couldn't get myself to do it as deals were comparable. The Awd capability will be adequate for about 90% of buyers.

    I think the best small truck is the Ridgeline. Its bigger, drives like a smaller vehicle, ride and quality is great and the trunk is neat.

    My real 4wd vehicle is 12 years old and with suitable modifications and the obligatory dents and primer spots.

    Those of you with the stock 4wds new out of the box and $30000 in payments thinking you are doing real off roading are kidding yourselves.... or have money to burn. The real macoy would produce at least $5000 in body damage the 1st year.

    Love the Colorado's styling, but would have to get $9000 off list to make it worthwhile. The concept of the i4 4cylinder in a 4000 lb double cab configuration is also a bad joke.

    Happy Hunting

    --jjf

    It (Colorado) still lags behind what is probably the best small truck, the Nissan Frontier, but not as far back as before.

    Frontier and Tacoma are still the best.
  • No! I would go with either the Toyota Tacoma or Nissan Frontier. Why in the world would by a pickup like that. It's not even a pickup, it's more of a SUV. Have seen the size of that things bed, it's puny. The 2007 Tacoma and Frontier Extended Cabs come with 6 foot beds, and if you want a Crew Cab with alot of stroage space for either one you can get the Crew Cab Longbed. The Tacoma and Frontier both get better gas mileage that the Ridgeline. Both trucks also have some kind of cargo bed system for thier beds, and both truck are partime 4WD. One more reason is that the Tacoma and Frontier can both tow upto 6500 pounds, while the Ridgeline can only tow 5000 pounds.

    Anymore details my friend? Believe me I've driven all the trucks and the Tacoma and Frontier are clearly better, by a longshot!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Anymore details my friend? Believe me I've driven all the trucks and the Tacoma and Frontier are clearly better, by a longshot!

    Ya know, it IS ok for some people to choose a vehicle for things like better driving dynamics and a more comfortable interior. It doesn't make them wrong. Shoot, I'd pick the Ridgeline for its clever 8+ cu. ft. lockable in-bed trunk and smart tailgate design. Something nobody else in the class offers. I travel to the beach often, an along with the normal two or three passengers, we usually have a couple of laptops. The Ridgeline is the only vehicle you could carry the laptops outside of the cabin and be sure that they are safe from water/theft. That's worth a lot to a lot of people.
  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576
    :) Good post!

    Each has it's pros and cons. Where the Tacoma or Frontier May have a bit longer bed with the double cab configuration, they do not have the interior room, plushness, or ride of the Ridgeline.

    Add a sealable aftermarket bed trunk and the Toy and Fronty beds shrink quickly. Then try increasing the interiors. :cry:

    Whats important to one person is totally unimportant to another.

    Kip
  • honda has one huge problem with the ridgeline, the spare tire is in the 'bed trunk' i'm sure not too many ridgelines get used as trucks, but what do you do if you're driving with 10 sheets of plywood in your truck and you get a flat? pull over on the side of the freeway and unload everything from your bed just to change your tire then load everything back into your bed? god forbid you're carying a load of rocks of something like that, you'd have to get your truck towed because you can't change your tire.

    the in bed trunk sounds good, unless you plan on using your truck as a truck.

    i had this choice to make back in 2005 and i chose the 2005 Toyota Tacoma X-runner. i work out of my truck, installing window coverings, so i carry a ladder and many boxes every day, nothing at all heavy, but some long boxes and odd shapes. i have no need for 4wd (i have a '91 4wd pickup if i ever go offroad) the X-runner is the best handling truck on the market at any price. at the drag strip i've raced and beaten a 2005 nissan frontier extracab SE v6 manual by 0.5 sec in the 1/4mile (may or my not be the driver)some people like the composite bed and some don't, i love my bed, even if it was a $2,000 option i'd still get it over a metal bed. the tie down system is top notch, i've always got a place to tie down everything and the in bed storage that the tacoma has gives me a great place to put rope and bungees so i always have them handy. the in bed power outlet is nice, but not needed, the only time i use it is if i want to charge my drill battery while driving to a job.

    the tacoma was and still is the best truck for me, when not working it's great to have a nimble and quick truck around town.
  • ustazzafustazzaf Posts: 311
    My wife wanted a car ride, so I bought her a Lexus. It won't tow 6500 either, but does have a sealed trunk and gets much better mileage. My truck has a sealed canopy that holds a lot more stuff in a dry bed and can pull a trailer when I need to haul oversize stuff which is about 5 miles a month. Even though my truck has not gotten a dent in 25K, the low range does come in handy on a weekly basis pulling people out. AWD would do me good, but not the guy on the other end of the hook.
  • jfritschjfritsch Posts: 958
    The spare tire problem is by no means huge. When I hauled a piano I just took the spare out of the trunk. Forget 10 sheets of plywood.. (can only fit that many on boards above the wheelwells on your Taco, Colorado or Frontier?) Hauled 30 sheets of plywood that fit great. Honda gives you some help with the 300lb dynamic load rating on the tailgate (much more than the others), so the bed extender comes in handy too, along with the 6 tiedown points. Don't really need the track system for the tiedowns but the Frontier's looks more useful than the Taco's.

    The Ridgeline's bed is the same length as the SB models of the others. Practically longer because of the heavier rating of the tailgate. Frontier introduced a 6ft bed for 07? great.

    Yeah, if I were going to spend 26000 for a work truck, I would probably go with a Tacoma. But I won't spend 26000 on a work truck, as I drop cinder blocks 5 feet into the 12 year old Silverado, or the trailer I have for that sort of thing, or hauling dirty gravel. Maybe the delivery man gets a workout now and then.

    RL will out turn all the small trucks except the Taco even being 5inches wider. I do understand, despite its odd looks, why they gave it Truck of the Year Award. Much more manueverable (and cheaper) than the Avalanche.

    Maybe with the AWD I can pull some of the 2wd Taco's out of a snowdrift or something. Or maybe just call a towtruck for ya.

    This is just silly to get defensive as owners of the king of the work trucks (the Silverado and F series) will claim all the Taco, Fronty, Colorado and Rl owners don't have "real" trucks anyway. And then why the Silverado owners are stupid not to have the F-250, or vice versa, ad nauseum.

    --jjf

    has one huge problem with the ridgeline, the spare tire is in the 'bed trunk' i'm sure not too many ridgelines get used as trucks, but what do you do if you're driving with 10 sheets of plywood in your truck and you get a flat? pull over on the side of the freeway and unload everything from your bed just to change your tire then load everything back into your bed? godhonda forbid you're carying a load of rocks of something like that, you'd have to get your truck towed because you can't change your tire.

    the in bed trunk sounds good, unless you plan on using your truck as a truck.

    i had this choice to make back in 2005 and i chose the 2005 Toyota Tacoma X-runner. i work out of my truck, installing window coverings, so i carry a ladder and many boxes every day, nothing at all heavy, but some long boxes and odd shapes. i have no need for 4wd (i have a '91 4wd pickup if i ever go offroad) the X-runner is the best handling truck on the market at any price. at the drag strip i've raced and beaten a 2005 nissan frontier extracab SE v6 manual by 0.5 sec in the 1/4mile (may or my not be the driver)some people like the composite bed and some don't, i love my bed, even if it was a $2,000 option i'd still get it over a metal bed. the tie down system is top notch, i've always got a place to tie down everything and the in bed storage that the tacoma has gives me a great place to put rope and bungees so i always have them handy. the in bed power outlet is nice, but not needed, the only time i use it is if i want to charge my drill battery while driving to a job.

    the tacoma was and still is the best truck for me, when not working it's great to have a nimble and quick truck around town.
  • Here are some stats for the 2007 Mid-Size truck segment.

    2007 Ford Ranger 207 hp 230 lbs ft torque 3.4 L V6 4A

    2007 Honda Ridgeline 247 hp 255 lbs ft torque 3.5 L V6 5A

    2007 Dodge Dakota 230 hp 290 lbs ft torque 4.7 L V8 5A

    2007 Nissan Frontier 261 hp 281 lbs feet torque 4.0 L V6
    5A

    2007 Toyota Tacoma 236 hp 266 pounds feet torque 4.0 L V6 5A

    Here are the tow ratings

    Ranger 5000 pounds
    Ridgeline 5000 pounds
    Dakota 7000 pounds (if V8 engine equiped)
    Frontier 6500 (if V6 4x4 engine equiped)
    Tacoma 6500 (if V6 engine equiped)

    thats all for now.
    * this artilce was typed fast so there may be a mistake
  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    The Chevy Colorado/GMC Canyon I-5 has 242 hp and 242 lbs ft of torque 3.7L I-5 4A

    It can only tow 4,000 pounds - weakest in the class.
  • Thanks for the info. I must have missed the Colorado/Canyon
  • GM could have taken the frame from their full size truck and the I6 or keep the 4.3 V6 and had something half way decent. That's what Nissan did when they build the Frontier. Took the frame and automatic from the Titan, transmission from the 350ZX for the manual version and a world class engine and you have a hit.
    GM decided to make a fool of themselves and put a neutered I6(lopped off a cylinder). I heard that the reason that HAD to do this was because the frame was sourced from ISUZU(another company on life support). So when it came time to use the I6 it was too long for the ISUZU frame. Solution......hack off a cylinder and you have an I5...... :sick:
    Just another example of, "it's good enough mentality".
    GM tried to pull the wool over the GTO admires by putting the GTO name on a Cavalier look alike. The sales were slow with the first intro so their solution throw more horse power and a hood scoop. :confuse:
    As we can all see the GTO was a flop :sick: :cry:
This discussion has been closed.