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Midsize Pickup Comparo

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  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    My understanding is that GM owns a big chunk of Isuzu.

    Not anymore. GM sold it's stake in the past in order to raise cash.

    Toyota purchased a significant portion of Isuzu.
  • asaasa Posts: 359
    The Nissan Navara (aka the Frontier in North America) is offered with a diesel most everywhere else in the world and it too would be a time-tested, reliable engine if it ever comes to the North America. But, as you wrote about the other manufacturers, there seems to be no plans to make that happen at Nissan.
  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576
    "Not anymore. GM sold it's stake in the past in order to raise cash.
    Toyota purchased a significant portion of Isuzu."


    Did GM sell all it's Isuzu holdings to "Toyota"? Wonder if GM hung on to anything that would be useful in the future. That diesel comes to mind.

    Kip
  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576
    Reading about the new GM Duramax engine.
    http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/06/15/gm-announces-new-light-duty-4-5l-v-8-die- sel-for-north-america/

    Here is a Direct Quote!

    "GM Powertrain's Tonawanda engine plant opened in 1938 and has produced nearly 68 million engines. The plant covers 3.1 million square feet and employs 1,565 hourly and 260 salaried employees, with an annual payroll of $200 million."

    Seems that payroll is an "Average" of $109,500 per person yearly. Of course the Executives will make more than the line workers, but that average seems excessive.

    "The GM Powertrain Tonawanda plant management and UAW Local 774 leadership successfully negotiated a competitive operating agreement that improves operational effectiveness".

    OK, that explains it! :sick:

    Kip
  • I want to thank all of you for your input. This subject has definitely stirred up some opinions.
    I am well aware of the Toyota and Nissan small trucks with their Diesel engines. These have been a staple of the third world for decades and have been great runners. Reliable and fuel efficient for what ever time frame you look at. Why they have not been shipped over here has been a mystery to me for decades. In a Yahoo group that I'm in there is one guy in Europe that tows his small trailer with a VW "New Beetle" diesel and it does a great job, according to him.
    I am getting closer to retirement and in a few years will be setting myself up to travel with a smallish truck and travel trailer to explore the US. If I were buying it today it would be the Nissan Frontier 4x4 (4.0 gas)and some kind of folding trailer like the Trail Manor. This combo will allow me to camp almost anywhere, places that would scare a motorhome to death. After setting up camp I could then go back country exploring with the truck. Let's see a motorhome do that!
    With a sub 3 litre diesel engine (like the MB 2.7 litre in the Sprinter van) the Nissan would be fantastic!
    Just my thoughts on the subject. Thanks for letting me vent and hopefully light a fire under any of the manufacturers that watch these lists. Nudge. Nudge. Come on folks, give us a cookie!
    Tigger32
  • jfritschjfritsch Posts: 958
    In general diesels in small trucks don't have the payoff of those in larger trucks, especially in this country. Cheap small diesels are good in europe and the far east for mileage and cost. By the time you load them up with emission controls in the US the options and benefits are limited. There is a lot of work here as the rest of the world is choking or starting to choke.

    If you pull off the converters, no abs, airbags etc and put in cheaper engines you can have real cheap models for other countries. (you've seen how cheap stripper models can get here)

    Good luck
    --jjf

    I want to thank all of you for your input. This subject has definitely stirred up some opinions.
    I am well aware of the Toyota and Nissan small trucks with their Diesel engines. These have been a staple of the third world for decades and have been great runners. Reliable and fuel efficient for what ever time frame you look at. Why they have not been shipped over here has been a mystery to me for decades. In a Yahoo group that I'm in there is one guy in Europe that tows his small trailer with a VW "New Beetle" diesel and it does a great job, according to him.
    I am getting closer to retirement and in a few years will be setting myself up to travel with a smallish truck and travel trailer to explore the US. If I were buying it today it would be the Nissan Frontier 4x4 (4.0 gas)and some kind of folding trailer like the Trail Manor. This combo will allow me to camp almost anywhere, places that would scare a motorhome to death. After setting up camp I could then go back country exploring with the truck. Let's see a motorhome do that!
    With a sub 3 litre diesel engine (like the MB 2.7 litre in the Sprinter van) the Nissan would be fantastic!
    Just my thoughts on the subject. Thanks for letting me vent and hopefully light a fire under any of the manufacturers that watch these lists. Nudge. Nudge. Come on folks, give us a cookie!
    Tigger32
  • kipkkipk Posts: 1,576
    A friend uses his High Top Sprinter as a show/demo room for automotive brake re conditioning equipment. It is heavy! He says he gets in the mid 20s running close to 70. Adding a near 4K# race car/trailer will lower the mileage to just over 20 mpg. That says a lot about the little 2.7 diesel. It should do very well in a mid size Pickup or SUV.

    We are considering getting back into trailer camping! Did it for 10 years or so.

    I seriously considered a Trail Manor until my next door neighbor bought a (19/27) 2 year old used one. Very flimsy! Folding and unfolding involve a lot of latches, pulling and pushing, moving of furniture, removing the 2 storage cabinets from the walls, collapsing the bathroom walls, and lots of air leaks once up. There is virtually no storage. During the up/down procedure the inside is open to the elements as the top is being maneuvered. Would not want to do it in the rain or a heavy wind. The guy he bought it from, got a hard, fixed side camper.

    On the other hand, the "Hi-Lo" seems a lot more sturdy, better sealed and goes up/down with the push of a button or a hand crank. Stays dry inside as the top simply telescopes down over the bottom. Has decent storage and the inside doesn't need dismantling in order to close.

    We are also considering the Fiberglass "Eggs". Especially the 16 footer. Light weight, aerodynamic, decent storage and livability. Near perfect for me and the wife. Chatted with folks pulling them with all kinds of vehicles. Seems the Frontiers,Pathfinders, Tacomas and 4Runners are getting in the mid teens towing them.

    http://www.fiberglassrv.com/index.html

    Kip
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    2008 Frontier

    quote Truckin-
    All in all, the Frontier is easily one of the strongest contenders in the midsize class in my book. Though the Toyota Tacoma certainly has its fans, and is a formidable competitor in most respects, it lacks the eagerness and responsive, sporty edge that the Frontier has. Even with the Dodge Dakota offering an optional V8, and the Chevy Colorado about to, the 4.0L VQ engine provided more than adequate scoot for 95 percent of situations. However, with the introduction of the 5.6L Endurance V8 in the Pathfinder for 2008, it's no longer a matter of "if" the big thumper will fit in the Frontier, but rather "will they do it?"
    -end
  • moparbadmoparbad Posts: 3,842
    Cheap small diesels are good in europe and the far east for mileage and cost. By the time you load them up with emission controls in the US the options and benefits are limited. There is a lot of work here as the rest of the world is choking or starting to choke.

    If you pull off the converters, no abs, airbags etc and put in cheaper engines you can have real cheap models for other countries. (you've seen how cheap stripper models can get here)

    Good luck
    --jjf


    Euro IV emissions and Euro NCAP safety.

    Mazda BT-50, Toyota Hi-Lux, Isuzu DMax, Nissan Navarra all meet Euro IV emissions with their turbo-diesels and meet NCAP safety requirements.

    Dual front airbags and ABS brakes are standard for most models with some trim levels having standard side and or curtain airbags.

    There may be stripper models somewhere, however, there is one main production base (Thailand) and even models exported to South Africa have same safety equipment and emissions as those models exported to Europe.

    EU has lower emissions level requirements for C02 and higher for NOx.

    With minor differences, these trucks are as safe and as clean as those being sold in US/Canada.
  • the_big_althe_big_al Posts: 1,073
    I have driven everything except the new Fronty, Taco and Ridgeline and I have to say the I have liked the Colorado the best... Granted I am a GM fan and currently drive an S-10. By the time the S-10 went out IMO it was the best all around truck. I felt it had more power (I have always dislikes Toyota's lack of power on the previous Taco), the Ranger I have never liked - it was too bouncy and the inside was too cramped for me. I had my father-in-laws Mazda B2500 for about a week and it was worthless. Granted it wa only the 2.5 (before the 2.3), but even still I hated the inside. I could never get comfortable. My dad has an 02 Crew Cab Fronty and it too was a little low on the power side. There as well the inside was never to my tastes as far as space. The S-10 had lots of grunt from the V6 and decent mileage as long as I don't hot foot it all over the place. Granted it's quality is not that of the Taco but I have been happy with my S-10. I have driven the Colorado and was impressed with the power that it had and the space inside. Not too impressed with the interior itself, but oh well... maybe the way GM is getting better with that aspect the later ones will get better
  • the_big_althe_big_al Posts: 1,073
    Thank you for your comments... I actually didn't have time to finish my post - had to run off and take care of baby, but you are right - before I actually replace my S-10, I won't go and just get a Colorado... Right now I am leaning quite a bit towards the Toyota. I like the styling and the power numbers are impressive. I just don't like the price. I have never been a fan of Nissan's styling so I that would be a hard sell to me. But I have always been a GM fan so maybe, just maybe GM can get it right and redesign or tweak the Colorado that would put at least in the running with the other models...
  • the_big_althe_big_al Posts: 1,073
    Interestingly enough, I went looking for a Colorado the other day and ended up test driving a Z71 2wd Crew Cab (although the Chevy salesman needed to brush up on his knowledge - he had no clue what suspension levels the truck came with and tried to tell me that the Z71 only came in 4x4)... anyway, after test driving I came away fairly impressed with the truck. Haven't had the chance to get to a Tacoma with which I am trying to decide between, but the Colorado sure seemed a lot better than my '01 S-10.
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