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Toyota FJ Cruiser vs Jeep Wrangler

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Comments

  • Is the engine restart (without the clutch) an optional thing? I mean can you disable this feature so that for every day driving you have to push the clutch in and then when you're rock climbing can you flip a switch to start it without pressing the clutch?

    Yeah it sounds like a fairly impressive machine - I still haven't taken one out for a test drive yet though. Gonna have to do that; see how much better the ride is over my 2005 Rubi.
  • The engine restart(without the clutch) is only when you are in 4 wheel drive. I know everyone is worried about the torque, but I can put it in 4 wheel low, let go of the clutch and depress the brake and the car will not stall. I have to press on the brake extremely hard to force the car to stall... trust me its not easy. My wife can't make it stall.
  • steenhsteenh Posts: 103
    Sounds like your friend should have test driven a jeep before spending $30k on an FJC if one drive convinced him the "jeep is better". That's just silly talk.
  • Well lets see... ah yes.. because they did not have 4-door jeeps when the FJC came out. And you think our discusion was silly talk. When you have kids, you choices are more limited and at the time, the FJC was the best bet. I personnaly would take an FJC over a hummer 2 or 3 if jeep did not come out with a 4-door.
  • steenhsteenh Posts: 103
    Yes... that is silly talk. When the FJC came out, everyone knew that the jeep was coming out with a 4dr (ugly as it is) so if you are going to spend $30k, you could wait... or drive a 2dr and see what the difference is. Most people won't make a $30k decision over a couple of months wait.

    In the end, he made a better choice... far less travel to the dealerships :)
  • Well, I had a Wrangler, traded it for a BMW, now I have an FJ and if I'm going to spend the money, I'm looking for reliability and I see Toyota blowing Jeep out of the water. I don't like Chrysler. That being said, I loved my Jeep. It just got too small with my dogs and wife. Plus, I became a teacher and my Jeep was all decked out for a pro surfer, not a teacher. All in all, I had to make a decision with the 4 door Wrangler and the FJ and I feel I made the right one. I like to be unique and the FJ is certainly that. But, so does the Wrangler. But, if I had chosen the Wrangler, I'm sure I'd be happy. FJ just is a nicer ride. Offroading is a different story.
  • Canman,

    1. If you traded your Jeep for a BMW, then you aren't interested in off-road ability in the least; not that BMW makes bad SUVs. However their off-road ability is nil.

    2. If you really checked on the reliability of the WRANGER (I'm not talking about OTHER Jeep Models here) then you would see that its history of reliability is excellent. Nobody can say for sure what the reliability rating will actually be on new models like the FJ or the new Wrangler as they are new designs in many respects, but I'm willing to be they will both be good.

    By the way, if you had kept the surfer Jeep, you could have been one of those 'cool teachers' that every kid wishes they had a class with. ;) Just buggin' ya man, I'm sure you're a cool teacher.
  • Ahh the power of a wrangler. I bought my first wrangler in 90 (new) for 9500. I sold it 6 years later with 148k miles on it for $6K as a trade in. So basically the jeep cost me $3500 and only had to add pads and an exhaust. Not bad reliability if you ask me.
  • Well now Steenh hold on a minute. Just because you would make an informed decision and check things out carefully before dropping 30K does not mean someone else will.

    It's statistically accepted that most of the North American consumers are impulsive. They make on the spot emotionally based snap decisions regardless of cost or facts. This is why there is so much consumer debt in Canada and the USA. So I don't find it hard to believe that someone signed on the dotted line one afternoon for an FJC without giving the matter much logical thought; never mind waiting to do a comparison with a model that might be released in 6 months or more.

    Furthermore, I believe at the time of the FJC's March 21st Debut, the only Wrangler that was confirmed for release was the 2 door, so this would further remove the Wrangler from the equation for those who needed the extra space.
  • Solid front axle
    Lockers and more lockers ;)
    Roll Mitigation
    Seat Jack (Very cool toy)
    crawl ratio of 73:1 or 49:1 depending on the model
    You can sleep in the back or... :)
    you can see where you are going!
    Doors come off
    top comes off
    Window folds down
    It has a cage!
    and the most important of them all... its a jeep.
  • Climb,

    Please explain this 'seat jack' thing you keep talking about. I have never heard about it before.

    Thanks
  • steenhsteenh Posts: 103
    2climbbig... I was with you right up to the end ;)
  • Seat Jack... its a lever on the left side of the seat that allows you to raise the seat up 3 inches or so. It improves visibility when wheeling. And when you are ready to hit the pavement... just crank it back down. I had this problem with my old jeep, but just learned to stretch my neck. I have heard of people modifying their seats to improve visibility.

    P.S. Its not a hight issue as I am 6' tall.
  • Yeah that's a cool innovation. I have never had a problem with visibility in a CJ or a Wrangler, but then I'm 6 foot 2 (maybe you just need that extra 2 inches in height ;)) However no amount of seat adjustment would help the FJC's visibility - looking out the windshield is like sticking your head in a drainage culvert to see what’s on the other side of the road.
  • steenhsteenh Posts: 103
    "looking out the windshield is like sticking your head in a drainage culvert to see what’s on the other side of the road."

    At least you won't be looking at the back of a tow truck ;)

    Sorry, couldn't help myself.

    You are right about the visibility... sucks in the FJC.
  • I love my 4.0L TJ, especially on the trails, but on the highway that thing is horrible... And forget about the interstate, getting up to speed there is a nightmare... I'm looking at getting a new wrang, but HP is only 202 on them. I can get a new Nissan Xterra with 261 HP and still have OK off road abilities. I would consider a FJ if I didn't throw up every time I see one! However, there is NOTHING like a Jeep in the summertime. I guess I'll stick with my TJ till DCX puts something worth dropping some cash for in the wranglers
  • Wait for the diesel Saggy. It's almost certainly going to happen. The pressure on DCX to put a CDR in the new wranglers is intense! I would expect it in the next 1 to 2 years.
  • Yea i heard about the possibility of a diesel... That would be sweet, I would certainly buy one of those! =D
  • OR if my engine dies before that I'll get a 4.6L stroker engine... those things are NASTY :D

    Talk about getting the most out of an I6!

    link golenengineservice.com
  • Test drove an '07 Wrangler 2 days ago and test drove an '07 FJC today. I like the styling of the 4 door Wrangler, it was a soft top and 4 door. The soft top was noisy. Not just general noise, but specifically right above the windshield there was significant wind noise. Not an issue in the FJC, it was much quietier on the street. I thought the FJC would be a little smoother on the street than it was, but it wasn't too harsh. The Wrangler looks like it would perform better off-road, but the FJC looked like it would meet my basic needs as I won't spend $30,000 for a new ride and then trash it. I think what has me leaning more towards the FJC is the engine. The Wrangler's 3.8 was loud and felt gutless. It hesitated twice when I mashed it; not a delay but hesitated like something was wrong. The FJC's 4.0 was more responsive, less noisy and did not hesitate. I felt more confident with the FJC's engine. I think the Wrangler is under-powered. The FJC will cost more, but I can't live with a gutless engine. I was pretty much set on the Wrangler until I drove it.
  • Oddly enough, if the FJC had a soft top (too bad it doesn't) it would be every bit as noisy as the Wrangler on the highway. If one were to drive the HARD top Wrangler you would probably think you were in another vehicle.

    No doubt about it that the 3.8L engine in the new Wrangler is under powered for the larger 4 door model. However, hold on because I much more powerful, fuel efficient diesel is probably on its way very soon. Although the FJC is not under powered on the street, when I drove it light to light it didn't do any better than the out going TJ Wrangler with a 4.0L and six speed. I feel that both the FJC and the new Wrangler should have better engines.

    Ultimately I think the FJC was not designed by people who knew what made a good off-road vehicle.
  • When I look at what is useful and important off-road there are a few key points I consider:

    Articulation (RTI), Bottom end torque, visibility, crawl ratio, reliability, useable space balanced off with vehicle outside dimensions for ease of trail maneuverability. That being said lets compare the new FJC to the OLD Jeep Wrangler TJ (Not Rubicon) short wheel base model, never mind the new one:

    ARTICULATION: The OLD WRANGLER had an RTI of over 600 right off the dealer floor. The NEW FJC pretty good for an IFS machine but its 491 RTI does not stack up to the Jeep. WINNER - JEEP TJ

    TORQUE: Wile the FJC has more peak torque than the old Jeep 4.0L has, it does not produce near as much at the Jeep motor off-idle where you need it in most off-road situations. In a very few situations such as loose sand, torque at a higher RPM can be advantageous and indeed the FJC performs better here than the TJ. However, [most] people who off-road do not have access to a lot of 4×4ing in sand. Overall, having more bottom end is probably more useful. WINNER – JEEP TJ

    CRAWL RATIO: The FJC and the stock TJ have similar crawl ratios in and around the 40:1.0. The industry exception is the TJ Rubicon with a whopping 72:1.0 ratio. However, the 40:1.0 ratio is still better than the industry standard and I feel adequate for most off-road situations, save extreme rock crawling. WINNER – TIE

    VISIBLITY – This category really disappoints those who have driven the FJC. Weather it was engineers, stylists, or the cook at Toyota’s cafeteria that designed the FJC they didn’t seem to think that actually seeing the trail would be beneficial to the driver. The FJC has about the worst visibility of any vehicle I have ever driven. A cube van with no rear windows and a 10 foot hood could hardly be any worse. Of all the areas the FJC falls down this has got to be the worst. On the other hand, with a removable top, doors, narrow short hood, folding windshield, visibility does not get much better than a TJ. Weather it’s off-road or a tight parking lot, it’s hard to beat. WINNER – JEEP TJ

    SPACE – Here is where people have to make personal choices. Not everyone has to carry the same amount of junk. However, the FJC certainly wins over the short wheel base TJ. WINNER – FJC

    Maneuverability – The FJC is probably Toyota’s most maneuverable 4×4, at least of all those sold in north America. However, that being said it’s a few pegs more cumbersome than a TJ. The TJ has a wheel base almost a foot shorter, and a turning circle that beats the FJC by about 7 feet. The TJ is also noticeably narrower, allowing it to fit places where the FJC simply won’t go. WINNER – JEEP TJ

    RERLIABILITY – Yes this is the category that all the Toyota fans wait for. There is no doubt about it most Toyotas made in the past 15 or so years have been very reliable. Though the FJC hasn’t been out long enough to prove this on it’s own yet, since it shares a lot of components with proven Toyotas I’m willing to bet it’s pretty good. Now before all the Toyota fans claim victory in this area they should really do their research on the TJ. I’m not talking about other JEEPS here, ONLY the TJ. Like Toyota, the TJ has an excellent reliability track record. If you check the customer satisfaction ratings in this area you will be pleasantly surprised how high it scores. I have personally seen many, many stock 4.0L engines over 400K and a couple over 600K with no major repairs. WINNER - TIE

    This is what I have observed thus far.
  • Agree on Articulation, Visibility, Maneuverability.
    Disagree on Torque and Reliabilty...

    http://money.cnn.com/popups/2006/autos/reliable/7.html
  • Well you can disagree on the torque but I idled (foot OFF the gas) both a new FJC and a new TJ over the SAME exact humps and bumps and the FJC stalled repeatedly and the Jeep TJ didn't.

    I was quite disappointed in the lack of bottom end the FJC presented. No matter how much those brown paper ads for the unit yap about variable valve timing - it is still woefully lacking in this area compared to anything I’m used to.

    As for the reliability, I’m just going by what I have read in the customer satisfaction reports. And several stock 4.0L I have personally seen go well over 400K without having being opened up.
  • steenhsteenh Posts: 103
    On reliability... only hard core jeep lovers would say that a wrangler is comparable to a toyota in that category... and many jeep owners I know don't even drink that cool aid. They love their jeeps, but wish they were more reliable. Actually, they wish they weren't built by DC.

    As an ex jeep owner, I can tell you it's no contest.
  • I just can't believe the FJ stalled. A brand new fuel injected engine won't do that. The graph I saw for the FJ shows a very flat torque curve. Now I'm not foolish enough to believe a piece of paper and could only properly judge it on the trail. The Jeep just was gutless when I drove it and it hesitated when I mashed the gas pedal, so why would I buy it? I wanted to buy it!

    I think the new Jeep is called a "JK". I do think that Jeeps are built better than most American vehicles, but they seemed priced a little higher for what you get. ( I don't want to start a debate about foreign vs. American reliability, this isn't the forum for that )

    If the 4.0L engine was so great why did they scrap it?
  • sooperedd,

    Dude, you can stall anything - even a diesel - if the engines torque output at that RPM can not overcome the job required ie. lifting the vehicles weight over irregularities in the terrain. It has absolutely nothing to do with being EFI or not.

    Furthermore, when I dumped the clutch a little too quickly a few times without adding enough gas the FJC promptly stalled too.

    You have to remember the Jeep 4.0L I6 gets 85% of it’s peak torque just off idle, that’s something like 200 ft-lbs of torque in the 1000 to 1400 RPM range. It’s pretty much diesel like torque. The TOY V6, despite the fact that it has VVT does not appear to be able to do this.

    As for the 4.0L this was discussed starting around Post 391. Basically it comes down to a mix of political reasons and the fact that the bean counters couldn't justify production of an engine for just one vehicle model.
  • Not to say that I wouldn't buy an FJ, but it is what it is. It's got unique styling...which, if that's up your alley, then great. If not, then I can see why lovers of simplicity might find it a little tacky and flashy. The FJ is not meant to do what the Jeep was meant to do. Regardless of the name FJ and it's roots, this is not a Jeep. Personally, I am a proud owner of a 1990 toyota previa minivan that has more miles than you can imagine. The ORIGINAL paint still shines. The dashboard isn't cracked and faded, and it starts every morning on the first click...so MAJOR respect for Toyota. However, it's not a Jeep.

    So, I would STILL buy an FJ, but it's never seeing mud...and I'm NEVER selling my Jeep...

    Diego
    Miami, FL (North Cuba)
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    and I'm NEVER selling my Jeep...

    Be sure to report back to us in 20 years! ;)

    tidester, host
  • Well Now I know where they got the styling for the FJC! - FROM AMC! LOL!

    image

    Just a little doctoring to the grille and walla!

    image

    Ironically, this AMC Pacer abomination, with its much shorter wheel base, solid axle, and bottom end grunt of the I6, MUCH better visibility, and much smaller, lighter package, would probably out wheel the FJC in most situations.
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