Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4 or Subaru Forester?

moos

Thanks...I'm going to take it for a test either today or tomorrow then when my husband gets back on Monday he'lltake a drive too. He was behind all three of these vehicles on the highway and ccalled me and said to forget the Rav all the ones he saw had that camber issue the Trix had. we put at least 25k miles per year on my car alone and at that rate at every oil change moving those tires around is going to change the way i feel about the vehicle. Not that we never rotate but geez...

I could get used to the boxiness but will definitely be getting those windows tinted.

Is your Forester auto or manual...I will be looking for a manual.

The other thing in Sub,s favor is they have some great incentives good til the end of April! Always a +!

ateixeira

Take advantage of those incentives to get some extra content you might not otherwise be able to afford. Check out an X Limited model, or even an LL Bean if you want leather.

Those have heated seats, so not only will they get you to the snow, but also they'll keep you warm along the way.

Heated mirrors keep snow and ice clear so you can see behind you, plus they work to keep rain off of them. Wiper de-icers front and rear mean no more scraping off that ice, to boot.

I got aftermarket tint on my Forester. People told me it would fade to purple, but 9 years later it still looks great.

FWIW, I just got my 3rd set of tires at 91k miles. Not bad.

kavoom

Subaru's are the best in snow as they have real AWD vs the partial, part time versions on most. I got rid of my 99 Outback Sport at 143K miles and was on the second set of tires and when the dealer sold it, they left two of them on there... I had 43K on my 04 Forester and it still had lots left, but the OEM tires have a bad rep being called Geosquealers, although I never had a problem...

cbmorton

What camber issue? I'm on my second RAV4 and know two other people with RAVs and none of them has had any problem with alignment or it going through tires too quickly. I haven't seen this mentioned on the RAV4 owner's group that I follow, either.

719b

i have no idea what moos is talking about either.

moos

They have a rear alignment issue with the Matrix which is what Toyota is taking back from me. They will not align and so they have an inner tire wear issue (see the matrix forum tire wear) . I don't know that Ravs have this just know that when you stand behind them they look the same as the Matrix the tire lean in towards the vehicle. My Trix pulled to the right all the time even after the second rear beam was installed. You couldn't take your hand off the wheel at anytime without heading off the road (or across it if in the left lane).....Just not looking to take a chance. They may be fine but we've seen a few that looked the same as the Trix. Toyota says it's to get a "tighter turn and sporty feel" YEAH RIGHT! If you have a Rav that is in alignment I'm glad . There are some Matrix's that are in alignment but an awful lot of them aren't. I loved my little Trix but ....it was on a tire diet (3 sets in 25k with bad inner tread wear).

moos

I test drove a Forester today and tried to drive a CRV but it was sold and they didn't want me to drive it. Got to sit in it though and check out the interior. Very nice...car like and quite a nice interior setup...too bad about the way they do the seats in the back though. I can't us it with those type of seats, need fold flat as I also use it to transport stuff so....there will be no Honda in my future. Probably the daughter in law's though, it looks like a great "transport the kids" car.

Just a ? to all the Subies out there. I found it to be a bit noisy...road noise , not engine. I traded down from a minivan to the Matrix and that was quite noisy from the van , eventually like everything in life, I got used to it. Now I think the Forester is noisier than the Trix...how long til you guys got used to the noise? Maybe it was because I didn't have the radio on and so I was hearing more than usual. Second ? ...what's with those seats...feels like I'm sitting on a wooden chair? Are they all like that...how is it on long drives? I drive about 250 miles to see the grandkidies, and some work, through much of downstate ny (Bronx and LI) and geez. do you finally get used to that or should I go look for a seat cushion. The salesman said that they would be better for your back on longer trips and there is supposed to be a manually adjustable lumbar support but I really didn't look for it.

Overall...an VERY NICE ride though...didn't get to drive the way I would have liked (salesman came along) so when I go with hubby it will be just us and we will "open it up " and see. I have a bit of a lead foot and need to see it at 75 or so not the 50 I drove it today. Pretty well sold on it though.

Champagne Gold Opal (liked Garnet but with the snow up here...too much cleaning) 2.5x 5spd manual w/ rear bumper cover, splash guards (same color as car) and roof rub strips where the rack is. $19759 and 4.9% for 60mo. So how's that? Sounds pretty good to me. We don't really go for all the bells and whistles just pretty basic as we go through cars pretty fast, 26-35k on each vehicle a year so we get replacements pretty fast...Oh, how good it is to be semi retired at 50 and 58 respectfully! Next vehicle is going to be a Motorhome in about 5 years to travel when it's not ski season...Edmunds doesn't have a forum on those...? Thanks for the advice you are all GREAT. Let you know what happens.

tifighter

I think you can get a better price on the Forester. You should be able to get invoice less rebate AND the financing with Subaru's April incentives. Check the cars101 website to figure out your invoice cost with those accessories and see if they'll dig a little deeper.

Oh and Edmunds does have a motorhome discussion

growler5

Manual. I'd get bored with an automatic doing all the work, plus the stick shift gives you better control in the snow.

Camber. You can't really make a judgement on this just by observation while following a car. The other car may be loaded down with a lot of weight :sick: over the rear axle or in the driver's butt.

Out of curiousity, were/are you hauling a lot of stuff in the Matrix? That could have some bearing on your tire woes.

pisulino

Have you tried the Suzuki GV?
Go for a test drive......100K warranty, flat towable for your RV and true 4x4 should you need it. Excellent value compared to the above.
http://www.suzukiauto.com/sr_07/grand_vitara/

Just another option.

varmint

Interesting. A little positive camber shouldn't be a problem unless the tires are over-inflated. I know many vehicles use similar set-ups without any trouble. I'll check out the Matrix threads.

cbmorton

Sorry to hear about your trouble with the Matrix. I don't think the RAV4 is afflicted by an alignment issue at all - even owners with a lot of miles aren't reporting problems in that area. Could be that just eyeballing the way the wheels look isn't all that helpful. At any rate, good luck with your shopping. My daily driver previous to the RAV4 was a Subaru, and I was quite happy with it. I would have bought another one, but the models in my price range weren't available with some of the safety features I was looking for this time around. If the Forester works for you I can recommend it as highly as I do the RAV4.

moos

Just skis and that type of stuff. All three places I brought it to checked the alignment showed it out on the camber and the toe.

ateixeira

You can get a Forester for a lot less. Try fitzmall.com as a reference, they're a no-haggle dealer and the prices are for real (we've bought 5 cars from them).

The same dealer also has Toyotas, if you want to compare prices.

In this area (metropolitan DC), Browns Honda is also no-haggle. Conveniently, that means you can compare real-world prices for all 3 brands.

As for the Forester's road noise, it's quiet for its class of vehicle. It was in 2 Car & Drive comparisons, and both times it registerd the lowest noise levels in every category (idle, coasting 70mph, cruising 70mph).

The Matrix is more aerodynamic and doesn't have a rear axle making noise, at least FWD models don't. I would certainly expect less wind noise and drivetrain noise, sure.

Compact SUVs are boxes. Not very aero-efficient, but you can squeeze tons of stuff inside. Very space-efficient. :shades:

kavoom

>>$19759 and 4.9% for 60mo<<

Run away, Run away! The 4.9 isn't bad... They are selling base X manual trannys for 18K at my dealer... You would still be high even on an automatic transmission which generally runs around 600 bucks higher.

tmc1688

Off topic question. Does anyone has reliable information of the top speed for the Rav 4 V6 front wheel or all wheel drive? Motor Trend magazine has clocked it from 0-100 around 17 seconds but thats as far as information I have. Thanks.

cbmorton

Toyota's technical specs show 130 mph as the top speed of the V6 model. C&D tested it at 129, so it seems like a reliable answer.

pisulino

Here are a few nice videos to show a 4WD and ESP in action.
This is not to say who is the best, rather as a sample on how these technologies help driving in the snow.
Takes a bit to load and it's in Japanese.
Once in the site, click ESCUDO that is how the call the Grand Vitara in Japan.
http://www.suzuki.co.jp/snowdrive/

bodble2

You mentioned earlier the boxiness of the Forester. Why not got for the Outback? That is certainly not boxy. It does pretty well everything the Forester can do, is more luxurious (ie. quieter) and has more cargo and rear legroom to boot.

bodble2

Should this comparison be expanded to include the new Outlander and '08 Vue? I think those 2 new models certainly should be in the mix for anyone shopping this segment.

stever

Probably, but at some point we'll wind up with one huge discussion.

In the meantime, check out:

Suzuki Grand Vitara vs Subaru Forester vs Hyundai Santa Fe vs Jeep Liberty vs Ford Escape vs Saturn Vue

Honda CR-V vs Saturn VUE

RAV4 v Outlander v Vitara - and the winner is...

Subaru Forester vs Mitsubishi Outlander

and maybe another one or two I missed.

blueiedgod

Second ? ...what's with those seats...feels like I'm sitting on a wooden chair? Are they all like that...how is it on long drives? I drive about 250 miles to see the grandkidies, and some work, through much of downstate ny (Bronx and LI) and geez. do you finally get used to that or should I go look for a seat cushion. The salesman said that they would be better for your back on longer trips and there is supposed to be a manually adjustable lumbar support but I really didn't look for it.

Hard seats are actually better for long drives than couch like Buick seats.

kavoom

I've put around 210K on Subaru hard seats and not had back issues and I don't have the best back. I will admit that my 94 Ford T-Bird seats were the best I have ever sat in though... I kept trying to figure how to get them into my living room...

ateixeira

CR just tested the new Forester Sports XT model and rated it highly. It's up near the top, splitting the difference between the CR-V and RAV4. The new Santa Fe also rated very highly.

I gotta admit, I checked out a loaded Veracruz and was shocked at how far Hyundai has come. That thing has one of the better interiors in the entire industry. MPG and visibility are still concerns, but check 'em out, WOW! :surprise:

bodble2

As I said before, the Koreans are coming hard and fast! If the Japanese aren't worried yet, they will be in a couple of years!

ateixeira

Go check one out, seriously. It's closer to MDX levels than to the Pilot. I was shocked. :surprise:

moos

Well, we checked all the dealers around here ( and there aren't many...pretty rural) The best price was $19187 after the rebate. That includes splash guards, the rear bumper protective strip and the cargo tray. The dealers around here seem to know that there aren't enough of them (dealers) so they only go a little out of the way to deal..price wise. I checked out Fitzmall like you guys said and most of the prices were for Automatic or the sport version. We really just wanted the base but it has to be manual and the color...champagne gold opal. They seem to have more than enough grays to go around but not too many of the gold. Anyway, after my husband had a minor fit over the timing belt (not a chain) he finally decided that he could live with it since they said it was around $350 to change it....but in the car on the way home said.."$350..my a** I'll change it myself" this from someone who never wanted to have to do repair work again (until it costs him...lolol) I sat in it and drove it again, noise wasn't bad and it was road, not engine noise. My other car had both. The seats were ok and sat in the back also. Why do all the reports say the seats are so tight. I'm 5'9" and didn't have a problem at all. Plenty of legroom and my legs are quite long. I guess it's all a matter of taste. I REALLY APPRECIATE all the input I got from you all in this decision and just want all of you to know that you are all really great!! and very helpful too. Thanks again....now I can't wait to go get it, but am waiting for Toyota to take this back. They have 25 more days... so when both are sitting in the driveway.....which to drive, so many choices!!! My husband wanted to take the paltes form the Toy and put them on the Sub and then tell Toyota to come and get it themselves...after making us go around and around for 5 months with them trying to BS there way through but it's not the dealers fault they were great , they were only allowed to do what Toy told them to do. Any way ....Thanks again!

ateixeira

Funny how people fixate on one very minor thing.

FWIW, the timing belt change interval is a whopping 105,000 miles! Who knows if you'll even own the car that long!

I've had my Forester for 9 years and still have the original timing belt on it. At 93k miles, even the next owner probably won't have to worry about it until next year.

My 98's seats have big bolsters, the new seats are much flatter. I'd miss them, actually, they really hold you in place.

p0926

FYI, you can use Fitzmall to get a good idea on the price to aim for even if they don't have an identically equipped Forester listed. Just calculate what their sales price is in relation to invoice (for instance, Fitzmall is selling a particular make for $200 under invoice). Then use Edmunds to get the invoice price of one identical to what the dealer has on the lot and then subtract the $200. This should be your goal price. Of course your local dealer is under no obligation to meet that price and it may even be unrealistically low for them depending on their particular situation (I.e. low volume) but it's still a good price to aim for. If your dealer won't even come close, you always have the option of buying from a more distant dealer who will give you a better price. You can also use Edmunds TMV price to get a feel for what Forester&#146;s are going for in your neck of the woods.

As for the boxiness, that's what gives the Forester such outstanding utility. It can carry an amazing amount of stuff for a vehicle its size; including large bulky items like washers or pieces of furniture.

The windows definitely benefit from being tinted (I got mine tinted before it even left the dealer's lot), especially in warm sunny climates. The Forester's huge expanse of windows has often been compared to a greenhouse which is good from a driver's viewpoint but all that glass allows the sun to really heat up the interior. After tinting, the AC will have a much easier time keeping the interior cool. Of course tinting helps with privacy concerns also.

One last thing, the seats are firm but I've driven cross-country in mine and survived fine

-Frank

suvshopper4

"Funny how people fixate on one very minor thing."

Yeah, like the way a rear door opens.

ateixeira

Touche!

The timing belt issue is one I haven't had to deal with, even after 9 years of ownership. I'd deal with a swing door blocking the curb every time I went to grocery store or Costco.

9 years, about once a week so 9*52 = 468 times a nuisance, vs. zero. I win. :P

That's not the only issue I have with the RAV4, though.

They dropped the truly full-time AWD for a part-time system taht your older model has. I wish the 3rd row were a little bigger. And visibility is poor.

So there's 4 things Toyota can work on.

To be honest I'd just move up to the new Highlander, which fixed 3 of those 4 qualms I have (AWD is still part-time). I don't think it'll arrive in time for me to consider one, though.

bodble2

Well, if you shop at places (ie. Costco!) that have parking lots, the swing door should be a non-issue. Honestly, I can't think of the last time I had to load anything of significant size or quantity curb-side. And I also think a part-time AWD system is adequate for most users. The RAV4 is already ahead of the CR-V in this regard.

ateixeira

Most of the time the wife gets in line and I go get the car. We meet out front, load up quickly, and save time getting out of that place. The parking lot tend to get very overcrowded (especially on a Saturday).

The other thing is that I work in DC. Parallel parking is the norm here. Spots are usually tight, so you might end up in a spot where you simply cannot even open the rear door.

3rd issue - if it's raining you have no rain shelter.

Doesn't matter, there's always the Highlander.

kyfdx

A lot of places where I parallel park, the crown of the road is fairly pronounced, or there is a lower channel next to the curb where your right-side tires go, that is lower than the roadway..

Opening the rear door would take a lot more effort if the hinge was on the up-hill side.

ateixeira

I think this is a deal killer to some folks, while others don't care at all.

The way I see it, you block access from one side regardless. It would be slightly better if at least they reversed it from the JDM style, so the opening faced the curb, but the fact is people like me want a liftgate and can get it on a Highlander.

Saw that a Highlander AWD LTD Hybrid with 3 rows, RES, and GPS is running about $37 grand right now. That's not bad. I wonder if they'll drop even more when the new models start to hit the showrooms.

suvshopper4

By the way, another advantage of the side-hinged door v. a hatch is that I can stand in the back and reach nearly half the roof when doing my semi-annual wax-by-hand.

But your mind is made up. I understand. The fixation thing.

bodble2

Also, a hatch on a higher-up SUV sometimes presents a problem in low garages, especially when the garage door is opened up to the ceiling; and for shorter women.

kyfdx

I wasn't trying to make a case for the side-opening door.. Just some reasoning for why the hinge might be better on the right, than the left..

Personally, I think a hatch is better... Just give me back the separately opening glass!

bodble2

Well, yes I agree. All else being equal, I'd take a hatch. But, for me personally, a side-hinged door would not be a deal-breaker. But, as juice said, different strokes for different folks!

drive62

Isn't the previous generation the best of both? The glass opening is like a hatch. Sure it won't load large items but how often does that really happen? Once every six years when you buy a big screen TV??

kyfdx

I think the best of both.. .is a hatch.. with separately opening glass..

But, I agree... if you have the side opening door, the access through the glass is a must. I wouldn't say I use it most of the time, but it comes in handy for smaller items.

I think most of the objections to the side opening door would go away, if it didn't have the big heavy spare attached. But, I like that look..

Really, I don't think about it either way... After driving a CR-V for the last 9 years, it is what it is..

mnf

Agreed, having both a Forester(04)and CR-V(06) they both have there valid points. I thought that the CR-V door at first would be more restrictive but now no way both my kids play soccer and i get in the back all weekend on and during the week. The hatch is nice to but I really dont give it much thought now either way. They both have there selling points Forester is nimble and sporty to drive like a car with a great AWD then the CR-V has more room in the back with stability and other added features.

my $.02

MNF

ateixeira

another advantage of the side-hinged door v. a hatch is that I can stand in the back and reach nearly half the roof when doing my semi-annual wax-by-hand

I can stand on my bumper, so that's not an advantage.

If anything, it's a disadvantage when it comes to washing, because you can't open the swing door when water it pouring down the roof. The interior would get all wet.

The lack of a lip on the rear also means items can roll out and fall to the floor.

As for the fixation, I think you're the one fixated on criticizing my opinions. Switch to decaf, maybe? :P

tidester

I can stand on my bumper, so that's not an advantage.

Yes, but can you do it without pitons, carabiners and bolts? :P

tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper

kyfdx

There is a lip on the Gen I and II CR-Vs..

ateixeira

Early RAV4s didn't have rear bumpers that stuck out enough.

Never mind reaching the roof, though, the problem was you just didn't have protection from parking lot fender benders. IIHS 5 mph test caused broken glass flying all over the place, as in the photo below. :sick:

outpostn

Owned a '00 Forester, just purchased a '07 RAV4 Sport V6 4X4. Reliability was a problem with the Subaru - had three wheel bearings fail before 100K miles. Still I was sorry to give it up.
The RAV4 V6 blows away the competition, IMHO. The V6 power is awesome, could run circles around the Forester. MPG is very close (22-23 MPG). The RAV4 is solid as a rock at 80 MPH, yet very nimble in heavy traffic. Yes, I'd rather have the hatch than the swinging back door, but that't not a big deal.

dtown40

I had a 99 Honda CRV before I bought my Rav, and my biggest complaint was the rear door. One advantage was the rear window on the Honda would raise so you could put small items in the back without opening the door. The Rav doesnt have that convience. Anyway, I bought the Rav and really enjoy it, although, the rear door reminds me of an old hearse.

etbull1

We are looking at downsizing our minivan (Odyssey) to a smaller, more fuel efficient vehicle. One thing I hate about our minivan is the road and wind noise. In fact, our new Frontier CC seems quieter on the highway.

Is there anyplace you can go that tests/compares the noise levels inside vehicles? We are considering the RAV, CRV, and Forester and MPG also will play a factor in our decision. BTW, our two boys are 3.5 & 5.5 you, so while they don't need enormous legroom in the back, I don't want it to feel too tight. Are there any other vehicles we might want to consider?

blueiedgod

We are looking at downsizing our minivan (Odyssey) to a smaller, more fuel efficient vehicle.

If that is your main reason for changin vehicles, stay with the Oddysey. It has cylinder deactivation which shuts off up to 3 cylynders at highway cruising speeds. The fuel economy is going to be about the same as these SUV's.

Even if you get 18 mpg average in the Oddysey (worst case scenario) and 25 mpg in the Cute-UTE. If you travel 15,000 miles a year, you will use 833 gallons in the Oddysey, and 600 gallons in the Cute-ute. At $2.80 a gallon you will save $652 a year. Now take the price you paid for Oddysey subtract the trade in value and divide by the $652 to see how long it will take for you to recoupe the initial loss.

The truth is, Oddysey probably gets about the same mileage as the Cute utes, so you won't save any money on gas, but will lose the depreciation.