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Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4 or Subaru Forester?

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Comments

  • tazerelitazereli Posts: 241
    I'm betting you haven't tried the Forester XT then. I just tried one last week as I'm getting in car buying mode. I tried a XT sport 5sp (i think thats correct )and my god was it a religious experience. i haven't accelerated that way since driving my college roommate's Trans Am. Only caveat was the premium fuel and compromised mpg. It has to be better than my half ton p/u. i haven't tried the Rav4 V6 and probably wont. i wont drive an auto, only stick. My wifes car is auto if i have that desire (2002 Forester). I'm actually comparing different Subaru's since I require 4 things.

    1. Power (i currently have a 1/2 ton v-8 stick short bed 4x4 and just like having a bit of power. Its not real fast but i love the torque)
    2. wagon type body (need to have something approaching the cargo capacity of the p/u)
    3. stick (replace a stick with a stick)
    4. AWD (have 4x4 now and wont go back to FWD as with my old civic)

    To me that leaves the WRX wagon, Forester XT, and Outback XT (i think they come in stick)

    not much out else out there that meets those requirements. any suggestions?

    Regards,
    Kyle
  • suvshopper4suvshopper4 Posts: 1,110
    My caffeine intake is under control, thanks.
    Maybe you could drink less of the kool-aid, juice? :P

    You introduced fixation into the conversation.
    You appear to be fixated on having the last word.
    Go ahead, have it.
    I'm done on this board.
  • etbull1etbull1 Posts: 15
    Fuel economy is just one of the reasons we are looking at trading in. I prefer driving smaller vehicles and don't really need the size of a minivan anymore. The smaller SUVs are about 15-20" shorter than the Odyssey. If we were to trade in, we would want to improve on the 20MPG we get with our 2003 Odyssey which is why we are not looking at full size SUVs.

    The forums have been great for researching vehicles, but I can't find a good site to compare road noise levels
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Your best bet is to drive them. Measured sound levels are often misleading. Whether the unit is decibels or sones, it is most often the sound quality that is most annoying rather than the actual amount of sound.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,872
    I don't know of any comparison sites. I did stumble across this industry site touting asphalt - Quietpavement.com. The "how loud is loud" link is interesting.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Okay, I stand my earlier recommendation about test drives being the better way to measure. However, I recalled that the data is available here at Edmunds. Just go to the Full Test section of Inside Line and search for each of the vehicles. Below is what appears on the performance and specifications page.

    2007 CR-V
    Db @ Idle: 40.7
    Db @ Full Throttle: 72.5
    Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 67.1

    2006 RAV4 V6
    Db @ Idle: 42
    Db @ Full Throttle: 76
    Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 70

    2003 Forester (old review!)
    Db @ Idle: 72 (gotta be a typo)
    Db @ Full Throttle: 80
    Db @ 70 mph Cruise: 80
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,872
    Nice digging Varmint. I wish that info could get added to the Comparison tool.

    The 07 Forester blurb there does say "too much road noise at highway speeds" under the ratings tab. Nothing about the idle.

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Even this data cannot be relied upon completely since, I assume, those tests would have been conducted on separate dates on different road surfaces. The 67.1 cruising Db for the CR-V seems especially optimistic --- that almost a Lexus-like noise level!
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,797
    Fuel economy is just one of the reasons we are looking at trading in. I prefer driving smaller vehicles and don't really need the size of a minivan anymore. The smaller SUVs are about 15-20" shorter than the Odyssey. If we were to trade in, we would want to improve on the 20MPG we get with our 2003 Odyssey which is why we are not looking at full size SUVs.

    None of these will get you a significant increase from the 20 MPG you are already getting. The CR-V stick can get 26 mpg in city mode, but they don't sell stick anymore. I have been getting 30 mpg on highway if I drove at or 10 mph above speed limit, but that was on pure gasoline with 2 oz of Acetone. The new Ethanol laces fuels yield very low mpg ratings, 27 mpg highway at most.

    I don't know about the 2003, but the new Oddysey uses noise cancellation electronics in the radio to make the cabin quiet, same technology as noise cancellation headphones, which generate anti-frequencies.
  • p0926p0926 Posts: 4,423
    I averaged 27 mpg in my 5-speed Forester (which I would consider as a significant increase). However, the Forester isn't the quietest on the hwy and I'd be concerned about the rear leg room for your growing boys.

    -Frank
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Wheel bearings were a well known issue for the 98-02 models. In 03 they changed the design and started using Legacy bearings, which have been fine since.

    Actually, they retrofit to the earlier models, and that is the appropriate fix. Sounds like your dealer didn't have this information, as that problem should have been addressed at your first visit.

    Of course the V6 blows away your 2000 model, but we should be comparing the V6 to the XT turbo engine, not yours.

    Cheers. :shades:

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yes, Car & Driver has measured noise levels at idle, at 70mph cruising, and at 70mph coasting.

    They did it in past comparos of small SUVs. At the time, the Forester was the most quiet, but it's been a while, and they are due for an update/new comparo.

    I like comparos because you know they're measuring the noise levels on the same roads, and even on the same day.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    Which is why I recommend test drives rather than magazine measurements.

    Not to mention the dB scale is rather quirky when it comes to representing loudness. At least one magazine promised to switch to sones (see here for more info), but I don't recall which rag it was or whether or not they actually made the switch.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Here's a strange observation - we were in Tucson visiting friend and they owned a new Ody EX-L.

    When I sat in the back, I noticed lots of noise, it seemed a bit loud.

    Later they let me drive it, since we're considering vans, and I didn't notice this as much.

    I wonder if it's the seating position itself, or perhaps the ANC (active noise cancellation) it tuned with the driver's seat position in mind.

    Any how, that's something instruments will simply not capture. Nothing like a test drive. ;)
  • 719b719b Posts: 216
    sometimes the type of noise or the pitch is more annoying than the db level. some noises are more annoying than others.
    some people hardly notice road noise made by tires, but wind noise will drive them crazy. that is why i feel a test drive would tell you a lot more than a magazine.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Heard rumors about a Stream being spotted in Cali. Are they bringing that over?

    I like the Mazda5 but they failed to execute in a few key areas (no 7 seat model, no seat back trays from the JDM model, engine could have more power).

    That would make a nice compact people mover.
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    The one spotted in Cali was RHD. Probably just testing the car for release in another market. Remember the JDM Ody they had in the US while filming a commercial that aired in Japan? Could be a similar deal.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, saw that pic as well.

    Don't recall that commercial, but there's a diplomat who has a kid going to my son's preschool, and he has a brand new JDM Odyssey. I'll try to snap a pic next to it next time I see it.

    I kinda like those, they're more futuristic looking and make the US Ody seem a bit bland and boxy.

    Greener on the other side of the fence, I know... :D

    Check out this Blog for Subaru's possible entry in this segment:

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/2657

    I would not be surprised if that photochop is actually based on an existing Honda, it seems so familiar.
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    I saw quite a few of those on my recent trip to Hong Kong. Wish Honda would bring that to North America!
  • marig0107marig0107 Posts: 92
    we just tested both the RAV 4 in 4 cyl and V6 versions and the crv. The 4 cyl rav was garbage. I've never heard so much screaming from the front of a car to go up a hill...major oversight that dealer actually drove up that hill to do test drive...hello! That car stinks on hills.

    Then we tested V6 model and that had some major pep. But the seats weren't as comfy and roomy and the interior was lamost primitive. I had to stop looking at gear shift when I changed gears so I wouldn't goof. lol... Then we read a few reviews from consumers complaining about V6 engine so we lost confidence and began seriously looking at CRV. I really thought I was going to own a toyota and here I sit with a gorgeous CRV
  • oregonboyoregonboy Posts: 1,653
    The sales guy had you take the 4-banger up the hill first so that you would be all the more impressed by the 6-cyl. Too bad for him that the interior was a deal-breaker in either case. :P

    james
  • thecatthecat Posts: 528
    Then we read a few reviews from consumers complaining about V6 engine

    Where did you read about this. I've had mine for a year now and have absolutly problems at all. The new 3.5 v6 has won design awards, has goobs of power, gets unbelievable gas mileage, and is smooth as silk. I think somebody's pulling your leg. I will grant you that the base RAV's interior is pretty sparten but the limited is a vast improvement over the base.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Gotta agree, the V6 is on Ward's 10 Best list of engines. It's both powerful and fuel efficient.

    On the RAV4 boards there have been a few complaints about hesitation, but even then it affects more 4 cylinder models than V6s.

    Where'd you read about V6 problems? :confuse:
  • thecatthecat Posts: 528
    ooops .. should have said "absolutly no problems at all" in post 628
  • marig0107marig0107 Posts: 92
    sorry, I haven't answered. Been offline this weekend, but I want to say it was the yahoo forums that I read it in. I saw a few people mention this about the V6 and after driving a V6 van that gave me years of issues, it scared me a little. Then again, everyone finds their own experiences with different cars, but I am quite antsy now.

    I had a choice between the Rav and the CRV, ending up with the CRV. But both cars excellent enough to make it a really tough choice down to the wire for us! lemme see if I can find that forum...okay, it was the yahoo forum.

    Reading them again, there were few complaints, but maybe less than a handful on engine noise, transmission probs and slightly less pep on the engine.

    Still in all, I would not have been disappointed buying anyone of those two cars. Go ahead and check out yahoo forums. Those problems may never occur for you, but I am paranoid enough to think I'd rtaher keep my eyes and ears out for everything and nip any problems in the bud!

    My best to you with your car!
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Interesting. People seek out forums often just to complain, so maybe the complaints are over-represented.

    Toyota has sludge issues with the 3.0l V6, but as far as I know the 3.3l was pretty bullet-proof. The 3.5l is too new to say, but we haven't seen many complaints on Edmunds. I think the Avalon and Camry get more complaints than the RAV4 does.

    Cheers. :shades:
  • varmintvarmint Posts: 6,326
    "Don't recall that commercial..."

    Probably because it aired in Japan.

    Honda had a JDM Ody here in the states while they were filming the commercial. However, the car was never intended to be sold here. They were just using our city street as a backdrop to make a film.

    I'm suggesting that the Stream sighting could be a similar story. Honda may have the Stream here so they can perform tests. This is probably much easier than trying to hide a test vehicle on the very busy streets of Japan.

    As for the Subie van, I've been a long time proponent of Subaru building a minivan.

    Their 2.5L boxer is a better mill for a micro-van than the 2.3L used in the Mazda5. However, I think a small van like that would encroach on sales of other Subarus. Besides, they need more mainstream offerings to support sales of all these niche products.

    It would be wiser to go full-size using the Tribeca platform. Subaru has always been good with safety, carving out interior space from a small package, and they have a reputation for practicality. These are all good things as far as minivan buyers are concerned.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,109
    People seek out forums often just to complain, so maybe the complaints are over-represented.

    Perhaps, but it doesn't make it any less of a problem for those experiencing one! :)

    tidester, host
    SUVs and Smart Shopper
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,676
    I think a small van like that would encroach on sales of other Subarus. Besides, they need more mainstream offerings to support sales of all these niche products.

    It would be wiser to go full-size using the Tribeca platform.


    I agree 100%.

    Bob
This discussion has been closed.