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Honda CR-V, Toyota RAV4 or Subaru Forester?

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Comments

  • thegraduatethegraduate Posts: 9,731
    Mine is like that on my old Honda. I just take it every 4,000 instead of 3,750. Easier to remember that way.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I guess you could compromise and use a 5000 mile interval, since Subaru actually recommends 3750 or 7500.
  • rengawrengaw Posts: 22
    Concerning the AWD systems of each vehicle, I would rate them as follows:

    1. Forester
    2. RAV4
    3. CRV

    *one interesting sidenote to the RAV's system that I like is you can engage the 4wd system with the push of a button that will produce a 55% front wheel power and 45% rear wheel power that is constant until the vehicle reaches 25 mph, at which time the 4wd system kicks out into the regular AWD system.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    *one interesting sidenote to the RAV's system that I like is you can engage the 4wd system with the push of a button that will produce a 55% front wheel power and 45% rear wheel power that is constant until the vehicle reaches 25 mph, at which time the 4wd system kicks out into the regular AWD system.

    My guess is that it kicks at 25 mph out to become FWD, not AWD. I believe the new RAV4 has an on-demand AWD, meaning that it is FWD until it senses tire slippage, then the rear wheels kick in. So, reverting back to FWD (not AWD) at 25 mph, make more sense.

    Bob
  • rfrfrfrf Posts: 31
    As I am rightn now making a purchase decision and this point is an important one, I contacted T:
    Me:
    I want to buy the RAV4 but have a question before I do. I undetsand that the vehicle normally runs in FWD until slippage detected andn then it goes into 4wd, but:

    1. is it possible to run in 4WD before the front wheels sense slippage/can I use the 4WD lock button to select 4wd before i even put the car in motion if i want to run in 4WD from the start and will it then auto disengage at 25mph? can i lock it into 4WD at that point so that i will continue in 4WD at speeds above 25mph?

    2. Once I am in FWD motion, I understand that if the car sense slippage, it will go into 4WD, but will the 4WD lock button allow me to run in 4WD above 25 mph even if the front wheels do not sense slippage at that point?and Quote them:

    T's response:

    We appreciate your interest in the 2009 RAV4!
    Electronic On-Demand Full-Time 4-Wheel Drive (4WD Models)
    "The Electronic on-demand full-time 4WD, introduced in 2006, distributes engine torque between front and rear differentials via an electronic coupling attached to the front of the rear differential. This allows the vehicle to switch continuously from front-wheel drive to 4WD while optimizing the front-to-rear distribution of torque. As a result, stability and fuel economy are better than that of the viscous-coupling system it replaced.
    A manual 4WD Lock switch allows the driver to choose either “Lock” or “Auto” mode. When optimum traction is needed (off-road or on slippery pavement) and the vehicle speed is below 25 mph, a switch to “Lock” maximizes torque distribution (50%) to the rear wheels. At 25 mph or above, the mode is automatically switched to “Auto.” On dry pavement, the driver selects “Auto.” By doing so, torque is distributed to the rear wheels to help ensure stabilized starting from a stop. On straight, dry surfaces, all torque goes to the front wheels to help save fuel. During low-speed cornering, the front wheels get more torque, the rear wheels get less. Whenever the brakes are applied in “Auto” or ”Lock” mode, 4WD is cancelled to optimize the benefits of ABS and enhanced Vehicle Stability Control (VSC).
    Your email has been documented at our National Headquarters and is available for management review. If we can be of further assistance, please feel free to contact us."

    I replied:
    Sorry for the follow up question, but when in Auto mode and driving at speeds above 25 mph, will the car go into 4WD and transfer power to the rear wheels? I need a little more info on how Auto mode works ar speeds above 25 mph. Thanks.

    SEE NXT POST
  • rfrfrfrf Posts: 31
    I replied:
    Sorry for the follow up question, but when in Auto mode and driving at speeds above 25 mph, will the car go into 4WD and transfer power to the rear wheels? I need a little more info on how Auto mode works ar speeds above 25 mph. Thanks.

    SEE NXT POST

    T replied:
    Conditions of the RAV4 system operation are as follows:

    Starting from a stop: Drive torque is distributed to the front and rear wheels, with a significant amount going to the rear wheels.

    Low-speed cornering: Little or no torque is distributed to the rear wheels - this aids in preventing driveline binding during cornering.

    Straight and steady driving: Little or no torque is applied to the rear wheels to enhance fuel economy

    Straight-line acceleration: Torque is applied to the rear wheels to enhance traction under acceleration.

    Additionally, the driver can use a “Lock” button to help the vehicle pull itself out of low traction situations such as sand. Operating the “Lock” switch transmits the maximum amount of drive torque to the rear wheels (approx. 45% of total torque output). From the “Lock”mode, the vehicle will automatically return to “Auto” mode when the vehicle speed exceeds 25 mph, or when the driver deactivates the “Lock” mode by depressing the “Lock” switch.

    Whenever the brakes are applied in “Auto” or ”Lock” mode, 4WD is interrupted to optimize the benefits of ABS and enhanced VSC.

    Another feature of the electronic on-demand system is that it can work in conjunction with the VSC system to apply torque to the rear wheels in variable amounts to aid the VSC system in reducing the effects of a vehicle skid condition.

    I replied:
    I thank you very much for the info, but my question is:
    When in Auto mode and driving at speeds above 25 mph, will the Elec dem system transmit drive torque to the rear wheels if the system senses slippage or is the auto mode more of a default for when I come back down to speeds below 26 mph? As an example, if I am driving at speeds in the 50s or 60s (like on the highway) andn the front wheels sense slippage, would the Elec on Dem system transmit drive torque to the rear wheels?

    I got no response. While I may not be the most articulate and nor the most mechanically educated, I have hard earned cash in hand and want to understand how it works before i buy. while i hope that i just did not get a similartly unfamiliar person as a rep to answer my questions, T's response ceratint makes it sound like at speeds above 25 mph, the RAV4 reverts to FWD and that 4WD no longer is avail.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    My question to you, whay do you need 4WD at speed?

    You only need it for added traciton on slippery surfaces when starting from stand still. Once in motion, 4WD is not needed to aid propulsion.

    In fact, powering rear wheels in turns, or sudden power applied to rear wheels in turns, especially on slippery surfaces will send the vehicle into oversteer. Most people don't know how to react to oversteer, since most cars are dialed in for understeer. Most people slam on the brakes and end up rolling their veihcle over.

    Are you prepapred to turn the wheel into the steer and continually apply power to come out of oversteer without flipping the vehicle over?
  • rfrfrfrf Posts: 31
    You make just the point. Whether the driver feels it is safe or necessary or of benefit to have 4WD engage at speeds above 25 mph, any (potential) driver of the vehicle wd want the info before committing much cash to the purchase of a vehicle that either: a. does or does not have a feature he feels is necessary or b. has or does not have a feature which he feels is unsafe ... which he also wd not be able to disengage.

    T is a great company and makes great cars ... certyainly among the best ... but T knows whether 4WD engages in Auto mode at speeds above 25 mph or not and T chose to repond (at first, and in the manner they did) and then chose to not respond ... leaving the inquiry open.
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    Subaru, Audi and others that use full-time AWD would disagree with you on this point. Their position is that AWD can be benefit in terms of performance (accelerating, cornering, etc.), as well as a safety issue under all driving (and all weather) conditions.

    While it can be argued as to whether AWD aids maximum performance, it certainly makes going "fast" easier and safer. For example I've read several articles in which the writers have said that an AWD Porsche 911 is easier to drive at speed, as compared to the a RWD 911. While the RWD 911 may ultimately be faster, the AWD version is still very fast and is much easier to control at speed.

    Also take note that some of the world's fastest cars (Porsche 911 Turbo, Nissan GT-R, Bugatti Veyron, etc.) all employ full-time AWD. Now granted, those cars are in a much different league, but the point is the "performance" benefits of full-time AWD do trickle down to more mundane vehicles as well.

    Bob
  • rfrfrfrf Posts: 31
    Just like magic! Since my last post (#775 of 776 Re: [blueiedgod] by rfrf Feb 20, 2009 (10:26 am), I received the following from T:

    "Yes, at speeds above 25 mph the Electronic on-demand full-time 4WD will transmit drive torque to the real wheel if the system senses slippage to the front wheels."

    I guess the T rep must have needed some time to check specs ... or someone in T management must be an Edmunds forum reader!
  • rengawrengaw Posts: 22
    Yes, Bob, I didn't explain that correctly. I meant to say that once over 25 mph the system reverted to front wheel drive with the automatic ability bring the rear wheels into play if sensing slipping.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    Whenever the brakes are applied in “Auto” or ”Lock” mode, 4WD is cancelled to optimize the benefits of ABS and enhanced Vehicle Stability Control (VSC).

    Sounds very part-time-ish to me.

    Just like Hyundai.
  • blueiedgodblueiedgod Posts: 2,803
    Also take note that some of the world's fastest cars (Porsche 911 Turbo, Nissan GT-R, Bugatti Veyron, etc.) all employ full-time AWD. Now granted, those cars are in a much different league, but the point is the "performance" benefits of full-time AWD do trickle down to more mundane vehicles as well.

    Those vehicles are primarily RWD, or the AWD unit favors RWD unless there is complete slippage, even then, I don't think they send more than 50% to the front.

    Toyota, Audi, Honda, Hyundai.... are primarily FWD vehicles.

    The addition of power to he front wheels in a RWD vehicle yields advantage, than addition of power to the rear wheels in a FWD vehicle.
  • oregonboyoregonboy Posts: 1,653
    The addition of power to he front wheels in a RWD vehicle yields (greater?) advantage, than addition of power to the rear wheels in a FWD vehicle.

    For every rule there is an exception. May I nominate the WRX STi and/or Mitsubishi Evo? :shades:
  • rshollandrsholland Posts: 19,661
    They're all full-time AWD, with a RWD bias, usually around 30/70 - 40/60, front/rear. That F/R bias may shift, depending on driving conditions.

    Bob
This discussion has been closed.