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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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Comments

  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,538
    And you know that how? There were a few good companies in previous cycle that did not make it (both American and worldwide). I don't see any reason why all would have to survive this time around. Not saying Ford will be one of those "out", but it certainly is not totally out of the question.

    And I dont' think the cycle has turned - if anything it will get worse before I will get better.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    What do you expect me to say? We are doomed? I see on a daily basis what we are doing as a Company and I am not even considering jumping ship. I am just looking forward to the day 5 years or so from now when I sell back the $2 stock I bought for $10 or $12 a share :D

    Our problem right now is not product but perception. We are all intelligent people here and know that you belive half of what the media says.

    We make car loans every day to the same caliber of folks we were making them to a year ago. The big difference now is the rate. It is much higher now then it was then. Ford Credit is buying as strong now as they ever have. The difference between us and GMAC is Ford owns FMCC, GM sold off GMAC. We are a captive lender and they are a bank.

    If you want to fix the economy and end the war all in a 6 month period? Blow up the sattellites that transmit for CNN, MSNBC, FOX, and any of the other major news sources that tell us every day that we are all going to be living under a bridge by years end. If you tell people something enough they tend to start believing it.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 6,767
    "...Hell I am now selling the children of people I sold cars to in the 90's..."

    Dang! Are car sales getting that slow? Well, I guess a sale is a sale. ;)

    2009 PT Cruiser, 2008 Eclipse, 1995 Mark VIII, 1988 GMC Van

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,648
    Well look what would YOU do if it was a choice between the kid or the fishing boat?

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • When I said 3-5% profit, I mean just that. If a car is $20K (actual cost, not MSRP) I would offer between $20.6K and $21K for that car, depending upon my initial dealings with the dealer and the dealer's representative (the sales person).

    With regard to clubbing and baby seals, I am not a subscriber to this plan. It is a total waste of my time. I make my offer, and the dealer can either accept it as is, make a counter offer, or politely tell me to hit the bricks. I can deal with any reaction to my offer. If I were told at multiple dealers that my offer was insufficient, I would rethink this strategy. But the truth is that dealers accept thin deals on new cars for many reasons, including other areas of the dealer that make more profit such as service, parts, used cars, volume bonuses, etc. If they can't afford to do business on the occasional thin deal, they should not accept my offer. (I should note that my offers have always been accepted, and I do not waste time at dealers, so they have more time to sell more cars.)

    Whew - sorry about the long-windedness of this post. Just to clear things up, I am not a business owner. I truly appreciate people who are - many provide necessary goods and services to me and my family. At the end of the day, though, I need to buy a product at a cost that is affordable and realistic to me. My salary is what it is, and since that number is relatively low, I need to be conservative (I do not shop for cars I cannot afford, but why pay more than they are worth, either?)

    Thanks for reading - I appreciate the many points of view here :)
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    If you want to fix the economy and end the war all in a 6 month period? Blow up the sattellites that transmit for CNN, MSNBC, FOX, and any of the other major news sources that tell us every day that we are all going to be living under a bridge by years end. If you tell people something enough they tend to start believing it.

    Normally I would agree with you my friend but this situation is much deeper than media propaganda. Ford has the products, they just need customers. Maybe they can start a campaign to let folks know, they are lending money.

    Welcome back!
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    I knew you'd be back joel.

    No one escapes the allure of "Satan's Den". :surprise:
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 10,914
    As far as I'm concerned, several stocks that have fallen simply represent a discount for me - meaning, if the whole of the economy weren't down, these stocks wouldn't be so far down. So I might pick up Ford at a bargain price. I hear they're having an end-of-season sale on stocks :)

    Welcome back, Joel! We really did miss you.

    Jip, I presume you are representing yourself as the Prince of Darkness here?

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  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,635
    I need to buy a product at a cost that is affordable and realistic to me.

    No need to apologize...you have a valid method for buying a car. Your method of buying is very similar to mine but I do allow for the dealer to make a little more profit....I don't have a huge number of dealerships to choose from and I don't have the time to visit a lot of them. I guess I am a little easier going in negotiations because I know what it is like to own a business and to know that you can sell a lot of product....at a loss, but you won't last too long.

    I also heard it is easier to sell a salesman something than it is other people. They know how selling works and they don't want to cause other sales people too much stress. Another rule is the best tippers are people who have depended on tips at sometime in their life.

    If I had a dealership, you would be welcome to come in and make your offer, but I might have to politely show you the door. ;)

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,635
    this situation is much deeper than media propaganda.
    Agree. The media isn't helping and panic isn't helping. But, there are some real problems that have to be solved before people start spending again.

    Ford has the products, they just need customers.
    Ford has some excellent products but I don't know if the public is ready to believe it yet. And, even if the product is good, how do you address the "depreciation" issue? You can resell a Toy or Honda very easily and it depreciates a lot slower.

    I have had many good Fords and they have many fine cars, but I would really have to think about the depreciation factor.

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 6,021
    It's the Hotel California.....You can check out but you can never leave....right Dukester? :)

    2013 LX 570 2010 LS 460 2002 Tacoma 4x4

  • joel0622joel0622 Posts: 3,302
    You can resell a Toy or Honda very easily and it depreciates a lot slower.

    I will agree with that to a point on a Honda but any more Toyota is just a Foreign made Domestic. They do the same marketing as the Domestics and are making the same mistakes the Domestics made even after they saw the results
  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    Jip, I presume you are representing yourself as the Prince of Darkness here?

    Kirstie, you've been watching too many Halloween monster movies. The "Prince of Darkness" is Dracula... maybe Ozzie Ozbourne. :surprise:

    But, I do recall you and others signing off as "Evil Host" before... so the "Satan's Den" reference may be an appropriate one. :P
  • chikoochikoo Posts: 3,008
    >Ford has some excellent products but I don't know if the public is ready to believe it yet. And, even if the product is good, how do you address the "depreciation" issue? You can resell a Toy or Honda very easily and it depreciates a lot slower.

    Isn't that a myth?

    Most websites calculate depreciation based upon MSRP.
    While Honda may sell quite a few of it's products at MSRP, Ford products always have a lot of special discount, s-plan, x-plan, etc that is never considered. These websites are never able to account for those in their calculation, as also they cannot take into account the opportunity value the cash represents that you have left in your hand during initial purchase which was 5K less than a Honda. In 5 years, that 5K can possibly become 10K, if invested properly, easily offsetting the marginal difference in depreciation during a 5 year period between a Honda and a Ford.
  • jmonroejmonroe Pittsburgh areaPosts: 5,540
    Everyone here knew this was going to happen…I went and took a look at the Genesis over the weekend. It is a very nice machine and the interior is, as one poster described it, “fantastic”.

    A little tale about the viewing:

    Son #1 (car geek) asked us if we wanted to watch his two sons last soccer games and then come over to his place to watch the Penn State game later with Son #2 and his two kids (both got their under graduate from that place). Since I already put a wing onto one of those buildings up there, I figured they owed me some enjoyment, not my sons, the school. Soooo, I decided to take the route to the soccer game that made me go by the Hyundai dealer, just trying to save some gas.

    Being the observant wife that she is Mrs.jmonroe asked, “why are we going this way”, I had to tell her, she was going to find out in a couple of minutes anyway. In her own little way of reasoning she asked if there was something wrong with me since she knows we keep cars longer than the 3 and 4 years of the ones we have now. I tell her, “I’m just looking” and that she can wait in the car while I take a quick look and get a brochure if she doesn’t want to take a peek. She says, “OK you can look at it” (mighty big of her) and I go it alone. The salesman isn’t pushy, I tell him the situation, (BTW, the guy I bought from in 05’ ain’t even there anymore) we talk about 5 minutes, I get the brochure and we’re on our way, painless. After the soccer game my son and I had the following discussion at his place:

    Me: I took a look at the Genesis before we went to the game, look at this brochure.

    Son: I knew you were going to do that. What took you so long? I’ve read a good bit about that car and it sounds like Hyundai got everything right about it except for not starting a luxury division like Honda, Toyota and Nissan did when they decided to go upscale. They’ll never get the buyers they’re looking for by not doing that. People just won’t get over gagging with the Hyundai name on it.

    Me: I know but I don’t care about that kind of stuff. All I care about is if it’s worth what it costs and from what I see it is. The one I would be interested in is the V6 that goes for 35K MSRP but the one I just saw was the V8 that goes for 42K MSRP.

    Son: That’s the one you should be looking at if you’re really interested. That car is all about luxury, rear wheel drive and HP. Don’t go half way with the 6 CYL.

    Me: The one I saw is the top of the line; it has everything on it, front and rear parking sensors, rain sensing wipers, Nav, a stereo with more HP than some cars and all that kind of stuff.

    Son: Yeah, and why do you think they have that one…because that’s the one people should buy if they get that car. Like I said, don’t go half way. It’s probably well worth the 42K MSRP with all those options, compared to other makes, and you know you can get it for a little less than that.

    Guess who walks into the room?

    ?: Why are you guys talking about cars? We don’t need one and if he gets that car, I’m getting a new…(you know what was said) :cry:

    Then ? walks out of the room.

    Me: Well, I knew that was coming. Do you think that car is worth over 50K.

    Son: Not with That name on it. Now, let me ask you something, do you really think you otta be spending your grand children’s inheritance like that? :sick:

    Just want an opinion or two.

    jmonroe

    '09 Genesis V8 and '12 Legacy Limited 6 cyl

  • jipsterjipster Posts: 5,345
    Just want an opinion or two.

    I think your son wasn't being honest. He really doesn't want you spending his inheritance. :P

    I say go ahead and buy the Mother Hyundai of all Hyundais... I'm sure you have your mattress and pillow stuffed with cash. But, surprise your wife with the dining room suit first. It will make your Hyundai purchase much more enjoyable... if you know what I mean.

    As an added bonus, if you try the "Jipst Method" of car buying, we're sure to get some good disgruntled salesperson sales stories here. :blush:
  • greanpea68greanpea68 Posts: 1,996
    Warning if you are easily offended, go away, far far away.

    Thanks Duke....

    I needed a laugh today. That scene goes through my head a couple of times a week. It is what it is...

    I swear when people walk into a dealership they must think we are hourly employees :cry:

    Ahhh never mind I am not going to start ranting today :sick:

    GP
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    j - here is my opinion, for what it's worth ---

    First, don't let anybody tell you what to do with your money. "Grandchildren's inheritance", indeed! It's your money and you should be able to spend it however you wish.

    If you and ? decide that you want to buy a new car that costs $40K, that's fine. You only live once.

    Several years ago, my folks (well, my mom) decided she wanted one more new car in her life - the last new car they had bought was in 1973. So, they took out a reverse mortgage and bought a 2003 Hyundai Sonata GLS V6. I think it might have 20K on the odometer now. That's my inheritance they're spending, but I have no problem with it. Whatever is left over after they're gone is divided up between me, my sister, and the four grandchildren. I want them to spend a little money to be happy. I'm not expecting anything, though I know there will be a little something.

    Second, I think Hyundai has a potential winner on it's hands, much like the original LS400 Lexus introduced in 1990. It may take a few years for the market to realize what a bargain the Genesis is, especially when the expected discounts start to occur.

    Bottom line - do what makes you happy - and if you have to buy a $12K dining room set to make Mrs. Jmonroe happy, then do it! (as long as the $40K car and the $12K dining room set don't impact your day to day finances, which I suspect they wouldn't)
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,538
    I think that Ford DOES indeed have best product for years, definitely best of all domestics. Their problems is not poor quality perception - this could be overcome over time. Their (and other domestics) biggest problems are structural: terrible shape of finances, terrible labor cost and even worse business model: supply driven, inflexible, and addicted to "firesale". They have too many divisions (e.g. there is no justification existence for Mercury, perhaps except that hottie we can watch in their commercials), too many dealers, too many "wrong" models (by wrong I mean unwanted by the market - not necessarily bad quality).

    Bottom line - their biggest threat is they may simply run out of cash and time before getting a chance for their new and better product to work out. The only good thing is everybody else is hurting, too - so their demise is not inevitable as others may be first.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,108
    Observations:

    I agree about Mercury, to me it's s slightly upscale line of Ford cars and SUVs, but not something that should warrant a division of it's own. I don't know i'm not a Ford product planner, maybe they can justify the division with the current number of sales.

    As for the rest of their lineup, I think the Fusion is a nice car, the trucks, the SUVs are decent, but the Edge, I think they missed their mark, on a bloated and overpriced limited use SUV. The Flex, .....I don't know, wife thinks it's nice, I don't care for it's looks, it's nothing revolutionary. Thats what Ford needs now, something revolutionary like a Taurus from the 80s.

    But then I shouldn't judge. I sell Chryslers. Although I learned to love the products, there's some room for product trimming too in our lineup.

    And no, just because some of us sell slower moving products, or our parent companies face challenges, it doesn't mean we have to admit defeat.

    Car business is all about staying positive.

    If every car salesperson ever had a negative attitude about car sales, then we'd still be riding horse and buggies :surprise:

    What's going to happen now is that the market will go through some changes, maybe some mergers, trimmings, maybe production revolutions (built-to-order within 1 week instead of 3 months, who knows?).

    Maybe the way cars are being sold will change too. Virtual reality test drive boutiques, and then order directly from manufacturers (like Dell.com?).

    Maybe the way we drive will change too due to environmental concerns, road taxes, or insurance.

    Who knows if in 10 years we'll be buying driving plans, like cell phone plans?

    Suburb to City 3 year plan, allowable mileage is XX per day, no startup fees, up to 2 drivers, up to 4 free accidents, 50 Gallons of gas/month and with this plan you can choose from Sport SludgeMobile XL, Sludge-O-Van GL, or Truck Sludge-O-Matic BL.
    Payment is $1200.month, and includes gas, insurance, car payment. You can renew your plan later at a large discount, or be eligible for upgrades SludgeMobile if you extend your contract.

    2007 BMW 328i Sports Pkg, 1993 Honda Accord EXR (my 33rd car).

  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 6,767
    "...Just want an opinion or two..."

    OK, here's what you do. Sneak out and buy the car you want, get the V-8, all the bells and whistles, anything you like. On the way home stop off at Home Depot and buy a cheap card table and some folding chairs.

    Drive home, park in the driveway and unload the table and chairs. Make a lot of noise bringing them into the house. This will attract your wife's attention.

    When she looks out at the new car and asks "What the heck is this?" you pretend she is asking about the cheap furniture and proclaim "You said I could get the car if you got your furniture. Aren't these the ones you were looking at?"

    Then proceed to show her all the "special" features that you got on the car "just for her". Before she can say another word ask "What's for dinner?" and walk away.

    No matter what she says after this simply respond "But I got it for you, why aren't you happy?"

    You may have to endure a few weeks of "Stupid Men" comments but what do you care, you got your new wheels. ;)

    2009 PT Cruiser, 2008 Eclipse, 1995 Mark VIII, 1988 GMC Van

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,635
    do you really think you otta be spending your grand children’s inheritance like that?

    I don't understand this concept of inheritance. We are going to spend every last penny we have before we go. Children can fend for themselves...they've been given the tools to do it.
    By the V8 - with everything, you'll love it.

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,635
    (e.g. there is no justification existence for Mercury, perhaps except that hottie we can watch in their commercials),

    You mean, you are not going to put Mercury on your list?

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • obyoneobyone Posts: 8,065
    You mean, you are not going to put Mercury on your list?

    Wish I could. The Lincoln/Mercury dealership closed its doors two months ago. Rumor has it that an Acura dealer will acquire it. For now though, the doors and windows are dark, the lot empty, and no seals to be found.
  • Cheer up bucka-roo I've got some good news. Seems they did a study on how much pan-handlers make and found that they average TWICE the average worker's $19 per hour. I bet that's more than the average car salesman makes (I know it's more than the average farmer makes).

    The study was done in Spokane out near Isell so if times get tough we can all bunk with him while we build up a sucker...err...customer base.


    Prime spot 2 miles from me - I-90 exit 291B (Sullivan Rd.) One at the top of the off-ramps every day. They camp out in the woods nearby, shop at the Wal-Mart just around the corner.

    Isell is about 280 miles west of here - would be a long commute.

    Cheers!
    Paul
  • dtownfbdtownfb Posts: 2,915
    You are assumin quite a bit like all Fords are sold below invoice and have rebates. Also you assuming that all Hondas are sold at MSRP. Remember all those rebates kill the resale value.

    It pretty widely recognized that Honda has the best resale value of the major US manufacturuers. Maintaining a high resale value is intentional and integral to Honda's business model. This is why you don't see Honda do manufacturer to consumer rebates.
  • kiawahkiawah Posts: 3,666
    Then proceed to show her all the "special" features that you got on the car "just for her". Before she can say another word ask "What's for dinner?" and walk away.

    Knowing the reputation of Mrs J Monroe........J will be walking far far far away.
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,635
    Watch for this happening in the U.S. soon...just saw it on the news. Since the value of undesireable lease trade ins has brought the value of the cars down, dealers are charging for extra repairs. Lady takes her off lease Dodge Caravan and is charged over $4,000 for wear and tear. This is a growing problem. Sometimes they don't tell you about the costs until weeks later when you get a letter in the mail.

    They advise you take your lease vehicle in a month before and get it appraised, if it doesn't sound right take it to an independent appraisal service.

    Leases made up 50% of all car sales and now they are only 20%.

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 12,635
    You are assumin quite a bit like all Fords are sold below invoice and have rebates. Also you assuming that all Hondas are sold at MSRP.

    Right...no matter what you pay your big 3 car will be worth half a year from now. It will take just over 3 years for a Toyota or Honda to reach that level....and the Big 3 car won't be as easy to sell!

    2015 Benz E400, 2013 Audi A4, 2013 VW Passat

  • duke23duke23 Posts: 488
    Wow, it's actually getting fun again. Say's I, who walks in with the knot in his stomach which has transferred to the shoulders by the afternoon.
    joel0622 wrote :
    " I have sold countless families over the years that send me referalls. Hell I am now selling the children of people I sold cars to in the 90's. "
    They really propagate don't they? Viva Viagra.
    My dry humor aside, when people trust you they send not only their close family but the extended nuclear as well.
This discussion has been closed.