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Stories from the Sales Frontlines

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,093
    > to get better deals than what Campbell's normally gives companies. I'll bet you that if a company that owns 25 Chevy dealerships and moves 200 cars a day through their network goes to GM and says let's talk GM will talk.

    Or Honda...

    I just read Arrogance and Accords and about the corruption in the system. I don't recall much national media attention when the exposure came. Lynch explains part of that because of other news events at the time overshadowing the big news about Honda.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,712
    And even then not every company has to follow that. I know that P&G basically told Wally World to shove it. They have the power to negotiate that with Wally World and if Wally World wanted P&G's wares then Wally World had to bend.

    Pretty much what this guy I know did, he told Wally World that if they wanted his stuff they played by his rules. He had all the business he needed anyway and he didn't approach Wally World, but unlike P&G he wasn't a mega player in his field so Wally World walked. He is still happy.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,159
    Not unusual to have big companies try to dictate to smaller companies (some call it bullying).

    Not all that long ago, I was doing business with Compaz (who was gobbled up by someone even bigger...HP). I was with (actually one of the founders of) a small compay that made specialized (graphics) printed circuit boards for high end computers. Think the computers that creat ditital images and animations for movies, commercials, etc.

    Anyway, we were relatively small, and very technical (vs sales and marketing focused). Compaq tried to tell us where to buy our computer chips, what to charge, what margin we should expect, wanted to see our bill of materials and costs associated with them, etc. In all honesty, from a financial point of view, we probably would have been better off following their direction.

    As it turns out, we balked. We had our own suppliers (although we didn't have the quantity of scale Compaq was allowing us access to). We had our own cost and pricing structure, and we sure weren't going to share it with anyone externally. The thought process was once we started sharing with Compaq, they'll just replicate what we were doing, and leave us with a small licensing fee.

    Initially, we were right. Compaq did try to replicate what we were doing, without our help. They weren't very successful at it. And, eventually they came back to us much later and started buying from us. That was a couple of years later, and we missed those years we could have realized revenue from Compaq. But, we felt we kept our integrity.

    HP gobbled up Compaq shortly thereafter, and we only did business with them for a few months, as a result.
  • oldfarmer50oldfarmer50 Posts: 6,288
    edited October 2013
    "...Maybe things have changed..."

    They sure have. Now supermarkets tell companies up front what it will cost for the best shelf placement. Choose not to pay? Customers will be looking at your product with their feet.

    2009 PT Cruiser, 2008 Eclipse, 1995 Mark VIII, 1988 GMC Van

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,093
    edited October 2013
    >Choose not to pay? Customers will be looking at your product...

    Judging by how few selections are on the shelves in the big stores anymore for certain items, customers will just be looking FOR you product--it won't be there, not even at your feet. :)

    In a lot of things only one choice is there in food items. However, the stores has 39 choices for dog food, furniture, a liquor store full of choices inside the store (here they bought an existing license of a nearby store to be able to sell liquor at KRogers), a sushi bar, a cheese bar, and wine tasting.

    ...but only one brand of white beans for bean soup in a glass jar.
  • bwiabwia Boston Posts: 1,195
    I know that P&G basically told Wally World to shove it.

    Not really. It is a symbiotic relationship. Some 15% or over $12 billion of P&G's sales go to Wal-Mart. Neither party can be too arrogant because they depend on one another.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,093
    >$12 billion of P&G's sales

    I quit P&G products years ago. I find other brands are usually better or at least equal.
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 11,796
    I just read Arrogance and Accords

    That was back in 1992. Here is a synopsis of that fascinating story.

    Arrogance and Accords: The Inside Story of the Honda Scandal is the tale of the largest commercial corruption case in U.S. history. Between 1994 and 1997, eighteen former executives of American Honda Motor Company, along with four other people, were convicted on federal fraud and racketeering charges. The big secret at Honda was out: Over a 15-year period, the gang of greedy Honda officials had received over $50 million in cash and gifts from automobile dealers eager to obtain additional hot-selling Honda cars and franchises.

    More details about the book;
    http://www.amazon.com/Arrogance-Accords-Inside-Story-Scandal/dp/0965776611/ref=s- r_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1382459924&sr=1-1&keywords=Arrogance+and+Accords

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 11,796
    Initially, we were right. Compaq did try to replicate what we were doing, without our help.

    Business was always dog eat dog...but, I think it has become much worse recently, for some reason which I am not sure of.

    I think it has to do with a lack of respect for authority, politicians, and a loss of ethical standards. The end justifies the means, and there is little pride in just standing on the merits of your product.

    I am so glad I am fully retired, since May, I wouldn't want to be in the rat race these days.

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 11,796
    NEW 2014 Ford Escape S $99 for 24 month lease



    2014 FWD FORD ESCAPE S MODEL. MUST QUALIFY WITH LEASE CONQUEST FOR $1000.
    MSRP = $23,595. 24 month lease, 10500 miles per year allowable, $.15 per mile thereafter. $2000 due at signing. Does not include sales tax. Does not include registration and acquisition fees. Security Deposit waived. Not all buyers will qualify. Must be financed through FMCC. Must take delivery by 11/01/2013. Prior Sales Excluded.
    stock#:FHG40706. mileage: 211

    What's the catch......there are lots more at;
    http://www.westherr.com/find-a-car/on-sale/?&saleType=Lease

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • MichaellMichaell ColoradoPosts: 3,851
    A few things pop up without even referencing the link:

    1) 'S' trim level (read: stripped and with 2.5L 4 banger)
    2) FWD
    3) Lease conquest (can't already drive a Ford?)
    4) $2000 due at signing - without acquisition fee (another $500-900?)

    Anything else I missed?

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    Need help navigating? michaell@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,712
    What's the catch indeed. Those payments barely pay the interest on the car. The one example you posted take the MSRP less the upfront payment and the lease conquest money then divide that by the lease payment and see what you get.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,769
    Doesn't include taxes....in NY do you only pay the sales tax on the lease amount or the purchase price????
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,659
    Well, it's a 24 month lease and it's only 10,500 miles a year instead of the normal 12,000.

    I think they are hoping the people leasing will upgrade to a nicer model for more money.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,659
    I meant the Robinson-Pattman ACT. Not the book.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,659
    Costco does the same thing with their vendors. THEY dictate the rules and things have to be done THEIR way.. THEY tell the vendors what they will pay etc.

    Some vendors go along with the program and end up making a lot of money as a result. Others resent being told what they will do and refuse to sell to them.

    And, some drop out after awhile unable or unwilling to comply with the directives from Costco.
  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 11,796
    I meant the Robinson-Pattman ACT. Not the book.

    Oh, I think the book looks better, this could be heavy slogging if you want to read it at bedtime!

    But, the R-B Act is a good and necessary one. Briefly,

    In general, the Act prohibits sales that discriminate in price on the sale of goods to equally-situated distributors when the effect of such sales is to reduce competition. Price means net price and includes all compensation paid. The seller may not throw in additional goods or services. Injured parties or the US government may bring an action under the Act.

    In Canada our competition laws are not very strong....makes it hard for the little guy to compete.

    Some companies will never sell to Walmart or Costco and companies like that, they will just grind you into the ground until you can't make a profit any more. You still need them though to keep your investment from going under.

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 11,796
    This one looked interesting too! For just $69 a month for 24 months. I think you covered most of the scam, but it still seems like a pretty low price:

    NEW 2013 Buick Verano Base 69 a month X 24 months

    Must have non-GM lease in the household. Leases quoted through Ally, GM Financial or USBank. On approved credit, prior sales and GMS offers excluded. See dealer for complete details.
    MSRP = $24,470. 24 month lease, 10000 miles per year allowable, $.25 per mile thereafter. $2995 due at signing. Does not include sales tax. Does not include registration and acquisition fees. Security Deposit waived. Not all buyers will qualify. Must take delivery by 10/31/2013. Prior Sales Excluded.
    stock#:PAB131735. mileage: 113

    If you have a $3000 trade in and need a new car, doesn't sound bad for $69 a month.

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,622
    I should have figured that out by your comment, or at least looked it up.
    Now it makes sense to me.
  • stickguystickguy Posts: 14,296
    I saw some today (I think Ford?) that were lower. $19, $29. But they were 24 months with $4,500 up front. And I believe that was if you qualified for the lease rebate.

    but man, that $19 was in a big, big font!

    2013 Acura RDX (wife's), 2007 Volvo S40 (when daughter lets me see it), 2000 Acura TL (formerly son's, now mine again), and new Jetta SE (son's first new car on his own dime!)

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 11,796
    I saw some today (I think Ford?) that were lower. $19, $29.

    Advertising has become ridiculous. First we had the "bi-monthly" payment with the payment in huge letters. I have even seen that amount painted on the door of a new car...with bi-monthly in tiny print.

    Now we have the small payment hi-lited, and we have the down payment amount in tiny print.

    I imagine soon we'll see a car with a huge $1.99 painted on the door, and in small print "weekly" and then in smaller print, "with $10,999 down".

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,093
    >biweekly

    Sounds like leasing advertising has gone the way that carpet pricing went: from $$ square yard to $ per square foot.

    Or in Canada, instead of $$ per square meter, is it now $$ per square decimeter? I just realized I don't know how it's priced in Canada. Educate me driver 100.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,712
    In general, the Act prohibits sales that discriminate in price on the sale of goods to equally-situated distributors when the effect of such sales is to reduce competition.

    Which is why the act doesn't apply to the situations I was thinking about. 1.) While it gave a discount to the dealership that wasn't readily available to others it wasn't enough to reduce competition. 2.) The discount didn't affect the end sales price of the car since it wasn't taken into account in the negotiations since no one in sales knew about it. and 3.) there was nothing in the agreement that prevented other dealerships from negotiating their own deals which may or may not have been better.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • driver100driver100 Burlington, ON 7 mo/Tampa FL 5 moPosts: 11,796
    Or in Canada, instead of $$ per square meter, is it now $$ per square decimeter? I just realized I don't know how it's priced in Canada.

    I checked an ad....carpeting is usually sold per sq. ft still. I believe they use sq meter quite often, but, I guess they found there isn't anything smaller except per sq cm or mm, which would be kind of ridiculous.

    One good thing about our meters is we just entered a trade deal with the European market, and I think you have to be in the decimal system to trade with them.

    Besides, we get to go 100 on our highways.....kilometers per hour that is though(about 64 mph). Though some Americans were coming across the border and assumed that was mph. Now, there are big signs explaining.

    2012 535ix 2013 Audi A4 2013 Passat

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,159
    Maybe I'm getting too conservative (this coming from a guy that has no problem whatsoever in buying a car on any whim, and justifying it in his own mind).

    But, in my so far unsuccssful attempt to find a "nice" luxo-beater as a 2nd vehicle, I keep wondering why someone would toss down $5K up front on a lease, when that would buy a pretty decent luxo-beater, with no payments?

    In my quest, I think my next car will be a step down from the German lux cars. I just don't see the value in the $$$$$ they now cost (purchase + maintenance + repairs + taxes. etc). These are my personal feelings with all due respect given to my esteemed and respected bretheren here who like German luxo cars.
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,712
    edited October 2013
    I would urge you to stop by a dealership and check it out for yourself. It looks like a Benz, but I don't know if it handles like one .

    Ok it was raining yesterday during lunch so instead of taking my usual walk I decided to take a ride and check out the CLA. Now there are two MB dealers about ten minutes away from work (in different directions) so I went to one however they had sold all they had. So I went to the other dealership and was told that the last one they had was driven off the lot less than an hour earlier.

    Both dealerships told me they were selling them as fast as they came in.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • jayriderjayrider Posts: 3,264
    Your problem finding a nice 5K luxo beater is probably related to the possibility that are too many dudes are looking for the same thing. Demand is probably pushing prices to 7K or more. Especially with gas prices dropping.
  • tyguytyguy ColoradoPosts: 804
    I'll gladly adopt the metric system in the US if ever given the chance. But if we change, then it needs to be completely converted, unlike the mixed system in the UK. I'm all for unique national identities and culture, but I do wish we would globally standardize on measurements, language (toughest one), paper size, and which side of the road we drive on.
  • verdugoverdugo Posts: 1,991
    " language (toughest one), "

    English is pretty much a de facto universal language already.

    Totally agree on paper size and measurements.
  • dino001dino001 Tampa, FLPosts: 3,486
    This may be regional or temporary. Both dealers in Tampa bay show five in stock each.

    2012 BMW 328i wagon, manual and sports package. No. sold in the US: 1. Probably.

This discussion has been closed.